should teachers be paid 125k/yr?

[Nebor]

With pictures of you, dingus.

I already covered that. You'd still be recognized. It's showing your picture to people in your immediate area. You might, might get away with it in a dense area like NYC, but most places you'd be busted within a week. There are literally dozens of internet articles about it happening, just ask my friend google.

 

[gotsmack]

$125k a year for school teachers? Sure, but the school year is now 11 months, vacation is 2-4 weeks depending on length of service, no pension - you get a 401k, and the job now requires a PhD in the subject you teach.

Fair?

 

[Mai72]

The question I have: this is a charter school, was there any control for the selectivity in students attending?

If the better students from regular schools move to the charter school, then better than average results are expected just on the basis of that selectivity. And this bias is expected, student performance is highly correlated with parental involvement, and involved parents are more likely to get their children into a charter school.

It has been noted that Charter schools pre select their students. That means students with special needs are not welcome. Do you think Kipp would be able to pull off such amazing test scores if they served special needs students?

http://cloakinginequity.com/2012/09...e-secret-kipp-charters-and-special-education/

It's the same thing with International test scores. One of The reasons countries such as Japan, China, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan do so well is because they omit their special needs students from testing. Only the brightest are tested. In fact, if you have a disability in Asia you are screwed. Period. Unless you have money, you are not going to be adequately served.

 

[Belegost]

That's an excellent point that I, too, have made many times in the past.

So I found the actual study for this, and the methodology is not bad (especially compared to others I've seen), they spend time examining the performance of the students prior to entering the charter compared with the average for neighboring regular schools, and found the entering students tended to be of lower performance. They also looked at the problem of attrition (students leaving the school, often due to issues keeping up with the required work.) and found relatively low attrition. They also kept students who left the school in the pool of students, so even if attrition were weeding out weak students, they would still count in the school performance.

Finally, when making the comparisons which lead to the big gains headlines, the comparison was not between the charter students and all students in neighboring schools, but between the charter students and a sample of students from the neighboring schools who were identified as matching the charter school body based on pre-middle school performance and demographics.

This part I'm little less confident on, and I would have liked to have seen not only the comparison with the model-matched non-charter group, but the wider set of all students for the appropriate years enrolled at the neighboring schools. The fact that it is not included makes me wonder if that comparison was less favorable, since I find it hard to believe the authors would go through as much rigor as they did but not do that comparison at all.

 

[Chaotic42]

For those of you who think teachers are overpaid, you'd enjoy it down here:

http://www.hancock.k12.ms.us/DISTRICT/teachersalaries/TEACHER_SCALE_1213.pdf

Teachers with a BS start off at $34k and max out at $54.6k

 

[Belegost]

It has been noted that Charter schools pre select their students. That means students with special needs are not welcome. Do you think Kipp would be able to pull off such amazing test scores if they served special needs students?

http://cloakinginequity.com/2012/09...e-secret-kipp-charters-and-special-education/

It's the same thing with International test scores. One of The reasons countries such as Japan, China, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan do so well is because they omit their special needs students from testing. Only the brightest are tested. In fact, if you have a disability in Asia you are screwed. Period. Unless you have money, you are not going to be adequately served.

Well, if you read the study I linked above, the incoming class for the charter school contained the same proportion of special education students as the surrounding schools.

 

[Mai72]

Well, if you read the study I linked above, the incoming class for the charter school contained the same proportion of special education students as the surrounding schools.

No, I didn't read the article. I was generalizing.

I will check your link. Thanks.

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[Nebor]

I took an adjunct position at a CC a few years ago. I was making 3 grand for the semester and thought it would be a easy gig only teaching 2 nights a week for 11 weeks.

Yea, I was working almost 45 hours a week for those 2 nights a week (prep, grading, posting, office hours, emails, etc).

It was insane.

So that worked out to less than minimum wage?

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[zerocool84]

I don't mind teachers making decent wages but the problem is that it doesn't matter if they are good teachers or not. Must be nice to work somewhere that your performance doesn't matter. Obviously not like that everywhere but it's like that here in California. Hell, a teacher had been caught sexually assaulting children for years and they had to go to court to STOP him from getting his pension.

 

[Rakehellion]

I already covered that. You'd still be recognized. It's showing your picture to people in your immediate area. You might, might get away with it in a dense area like NYC, but most places you'd be busted within a week. There are literally dozens of internet articles about it happening, just ask my friend google.

I'm sure it happens, but more likely they'll just swipe left and think nothing of it.

 

[SP33Demon]

The good uni professors with a phd should be, but high school teachers - hell no. Their master's of education = one of the biggest jokes around. They write a couple of essays and lesson plans and can then say they have their "master's". Too funny.

 

[TheSlamma]

$125k a year for school teachers? Sure, but the school year is now 11 months, vacation is 2-4 weeks depending on length of service, no pension - you get a 401k, and the job now requires a PhD in the subject you teach.

Fair?

But a CFO/CTO/CIO/CEO who works the equivalent of 4 days a year between doing lines on his executive desk that runs a company into the ground and puts people on unemployment. That guy is cool right?

 

[Insomniator]

But a CFO/CTO/CIO/CEO who works the equivalent of 4 days a year between doing lines on his executive desk that runs a company into the ground and puts people on unemployment. That guy is cool right?

Completely meaningless post.

Teachers should be paid what they are worth on the market. If its 100 hours a week and as terrible as people make it sound then teachers should be in high demand, no?

 

[Rakehellion]

The good uni professors with a phd should be, but high school teachers - hell no. Their master's of education = one of the biggest jokes around. They write a couple of essays and lesson plans and can then say they have their "master's". Too funny.

Just like everyone else, apparently. http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2413374

 

[cbrunny]

If I ran the government, teachers would be paid well (they are in Ontario already). Bad teachers would be fire-able.

Canada would win Earth.

 

[smitbret]

Teachers may work 187-190 days out of the year but they still work the same number of hours as an average american full time worker.

Hmmm, my parents and wife's mother all teach school and based on what I've seen over the last 15 years, that is not even close.

Don't get me wrong, but their jobs are not that difficult. The hardest part is dealing with stupid parents which are no different than stupid clients or stupid customers or stupid co workers.

The hardest part of being a teacher is starting out at the low end of he pay scale for a few years and getting your materials organized. Once you have your system down, they basically phone it in for the next few years until the curriculum changes and then they are handed the materials that the Board of Education is requiring.

Being a teacher is not a hard life.

 

[Wreckem]

Hmmm, my parents and wife's mother all teach school and based on what I've seen over the last 15 years, that is not even close.

Don't get me wrong, but their jobs are not that difficult. The hardest part is dealing with stupid parents which are no different than stupid clients or stupid customers or stupid co workers.

The hardest part of being a teacher is starting out at the low end of he pay scale for a few years and getting your materials organized. Once you have your system down, they basically phone it in for the next few years until the curriculum changes and then they are handed the materials that the Board of Education is requiring.

Being a teacher is not a hard life.

Sounds like the teachers you know qualify as those "shitty" teachers.

If teachers had it cush and easy, why do they have one of the lowest average time in career of all professions. The average teacher lasts 5 years in the teaching profession.

I personally know a lot of teachers. The good ones all put in ~60 hrs a week during the year. Fortunately in the DFW metroplex teachers are paid adequately.

 

[sunzt]

It should depend on teacher performance. If a teacher truly cares about their students, inspires them, provides extra help when needed, and motivates them then they are definitely worth 125k.

If all they do is read out of a book, hand our work and tests, and don't give 2 shiz then they get paid 30-40k.

I've had both as a student. It's amazing how wide the quality spectrum for teachers goes.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Most teachers don't even work a whole year, which makes their pay even more ludicrous. One of the most over-paid positions, followed by overtime pay for police. Police pay should be determined by how dangerous the area is, not by how rich the area is.

not this again.....

 

[Regs]

Now that I am no longer paying 3.50 for a gal of gas. Sure.

 

[mmntech]

If I ran the government, teachers would be paid well (they are in Ontario already). Bad teachers would be fire-able.

Canada would win Earth.

You can thank their union for that. Bad teachers are almost impossible to fire. Unfortunately, they seem to outweigh the good ones by a significant margin. I maybe had two or three teachers growing up who actually cared. The rest were just there to cash in their fat pay cheque. Really wish I had gone to a private school. The Montessori and Waldorf kids may be weird but you can't argue with results.

 

[Mai72]

If I ran the government, teachers would be paid well (they are in Ontario already). Bad teachers would be fire-able.

Canada would win Earth.

In Canada nepotism is a HUGE issue. It's very difficult to find a job unless you know someone. Talented teachers can expect to sub for at least 5 years before landing a position.

 

[MongGrel]

For those of you who think teachers are overpaid, you'd enjoy it down here:

http://www.hancock.k12.ms.us/DISTRICT/teachersalaries/TEACHER_SCALE_1213.pdf

Teachers with a BS start off at $34k and max out at $54.6k

Considering what I do and how long I've been doing it, I'd still call that overpaid.

Way overpaid.

Go figure.