Should stupid kids skip school and learn a trade instead?

[ch33zw1z]

I think everyone should have the right to a high school diploma. But, I think schools put way too much emphasis on academic learning/going to university. It's not for everyone. Just because your a tradesman doesn't mean you're dumb. There's a lot of money in it.

This. If my parents had sent me to a public high school, I probably would've went into a trade. It doesnt mean you're dumb, I argue the contrary. Some of the smartest people I've met are tradesmen. I don't mean book smart, I mean the kind of smart that made civilization what it is today. Building, maintaining, improving our modern day convienences.

 

[Modelworks]

grade/middle/high school or do you mean college? im not a huge fan of everything up to high school, but a good deal of it is pretty important

I think middle school or around 9th grade is enough for people to learn to live a good life. After that when they start bringing in subjects like geometry , physics, chemistry, are when schools start losing interest from students. A lot of students make valid points like 'I will never use this stuff' and are often met with 'I had to learn it' from parents that seem to want their children to endure what they had to go through as if the experience is good for them . Really a lot of the stuff taught in physics, calculus, etc are things people will never use outside of school unless they are going into those fields. By the time they reach high school they have already learned enough about physics, objects fall down, heat rises, etc that is enough for a normal life.

 

[AMCRambler]

...We teach them a skill that requires no knowledge....

I'm still trying to get over this one. Wtf are you smoking?

Most kids these days aren't dumb. They're just not motivated. It's all for the same reasons we weren't motivated. They'd rather be doing something fun. Now the way my parents motivated me was by punishment. You do bad in school? The Nintendo gets taken away. Still doing bad in school? No tv during the school year. Turn the grades around a lot and we'll see. And they enforced it!

Parents nowadays don't hold their kids accountable. They look for someone else to blame. If junior is not doing well in school its the teacher's fault. Or they have some mental disability and need special consideration. That's all bullshit.

Parents need to step up and discipline their children. They have to realize that kids will never be to understand why they need to get a good education and motivate themselves. Only the harsh reality of life and earning a living on your own can do that. It's up to you as the parent to force them to learn as much as they can and encourage that by any hook or crook.

Behind every honor student is a parent who rides their kid to do well.

 

[Sea Moose]

I agree with the Indian.

I should not have wasted years doing year 11 and 12 and failing university.

I should have dropped out in 10 and have done a trade or joined the army.

Now that i have grown up, i am thinking of doing a uni degree

 

[thepd7]

My opinion is by Sophomore year of High School, you'd be able to tell whether a kid will be suitable for further education or not.

Probably so.

I think everyone should have the right to a high school diploma. But, I think schools put way too much emphasis on academic learning/going to university. It's not for everyone. Just because your a tradesman doesn't mean you're dumb. There's a lot of money in it.

Agreed, I hate it when middle class parents force their kids to go to junior college or community college when they could be learning a skill, making money, and actually contributing to society.

what makes you think they can be trained to do jobs if they can't even pass basic schooling?

Do you need a college degree for carpentry? How about to be an auto mechanic? There are tons of skilled labor positions which people can learn by doing an apprenticeship or are just good naturally.

I don't like the term stupid. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NOT having a high school diploma or college degree and we need to stop putting down people that do not have it as if they are some lower form of life. I get sick of seeing people talking to someone and the person says "I didn't finish high school" and the person they are talking to reacts like that person just told them they had committed a crime or did something bad. People that had to drop out of high school are made to feel inferior. Then someone says they went to college and everyone acts like because they got in the door to a school they have ascended to another level of humanity. If everyone tells you that you will fail because you didn't finish school that is a hard obstacle to overcome.

I have said it before on here, but I have a brother who is dyslexic. He was told in 10th grade that he could not learn anymore. My parents were advised to remove him from school. He never attended another classroom again. That was over 20 years ago. He now earns more than I do, has his own business, and lives a good life. He still can't read or write well, but he is one hell of a salesman and is good with mechanical things so he used those skills . Does that make him somehow less human because he doesn't have a degree ? I know many 'educated' people that are sitting at home on unemployment.

There are a bunch of jobs that do not require reading, math, writing above about a 6th grade level. Many people are better at learning by doing than sitting in a classroom . I think they need to bring back vocational schools from years ago and start teaching trades like masonry, carpentry, landscaping, plumbing, welding and more.

Absolute agreed.

 

[rasczak]

TBH, I probably would have chosen a different path. I don't know why I thought education would bring me money later on in life.

My brothers (and sister) all joined the workforce right after High School (or GED in 2 cases), and they all make more money than I do.

They all own houses in really nice areas, all have multiple vehicles and all look down on me.

I chose to go to school instead, got a late start in the workforce, and now have a low level helpdesk job. I am no better than your average Indian Dell technician that you call up on the phone.

I wish I could go back and join the workforce earlier.

Yet you have a degree, you are young and will see that the degree will help you obtain better paying jobs as you gain more work experience. Especially in the IT field. I hope that while you have been working at this job you have been applying for other, better paying positions. if not, you should be.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

there should be more focus on non-academic education, no doubt

 

[acheron]

I'm trying to figure out why you'd want stupid people doing your car repair/electrical wiring/plumbing. Yes we should put more emphasis on trade schools, but I wouldn't direct "stupid kids" there, either.

 

[rasczak]

I don't like the term stupid. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NOT having a high school diploma or college degree and we need to stop putting down people that do not have it as if they are some lower form of life. I get sick of seeing people talking to someone and the person says "I didn't finish high school" and the person they are talking to reacts like that person just told them they had committed a crime or did something bad. People that had to drop out of high school are made to feel inferior. Then someone says they went to college and everyone acts like because they got in the door to a school they have ascended to another level of humanity. If everyone tells you that you will fail because you didn't finish school that is a hard obstacle to overcome.

I have said it before on here, but I have a brother who is dyslexic. He was told in 10th grade that he could not learn anymore. My parents were advised to remove him from school. He never attended another classroom again. That was over 20 years ago. He now earns more than I do, has his own business, and lives a good life. He still can't read or write well, but he is one hell of a salesman and is good with mechanical things so he used those skills . Does that make him somehow less human because he doesn't have a degree ? I know many 'educated' people that are sitting at home on unemployment.

There are a bunch of jobs that do not require reading, math, writing above about a 6th grade level. Many people are better at learning by doing than sitting in a classroom . I think they need to bring back vocational schools from years ago and start teaching trades like masonry, carpentry, landscaping, plumbing, welding and more.

I couldn't agree more. I graduated high school, have no college degree, but I think I'm doing relatively well. I'm a sys admin, I also have a small consulting business that I want build and hopefully can rely upon in the future. The only thing I had going for me was a better understanding of computers than the average joe. Ironically, the reason I learned so much about computers was because of pc games, which caused me to drop quite a few college classes.

 

[Sea Moose]

I'm trying to figure out why you'd want stupid people doing your car repair/electrical wiring/plumbing. Yes we should put more emphasis on trade schools, but I wouldn't direct "stupid kids" there, either.

I think you need to define stupid.

I have trouble reading legal documents for my business.

But i can repair Hvac systems that keep entire buildings at a comfortable temperature

 

[Modelworks]

I'm trying to figure out why you'd want stupid people doing your car repair/electrical wiring/plumbing. Yes we should put more emphasis on trade schools, but I wouldn't direct "stupid kids" there, either.

I know many people that do jobs like laying brick , some of them in their 50's that never attended school, yet can do some amazing work. Others could read about it, take math classes on how to calculate number of bricks, amount of mortar needed, hours to do the job, listen to all the experts and still go on a job site and make a complete mess of things.

A degree does not mean you are capable.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

This could be a good idea. Not just stupid kids though, but I know from my own experience that my biggest fault in schooling before college, was all lack of interest in things irrelevent to my interests, and pure boredom.
If I could have found something at that age would have been cool to get a head start in some profession.

Something like mentors figuring out where kids interests, and potential for skills to develop. Then help point them in the right direction to be successful in their endeavors.
It's already obvious from the aspect of anyone who has worked in fast food.
Somebody could be the shittiest cashier EVER. But you wouldn't be able to discern that from amazing work in another profession that interests and only plays upon their strengths, while nullifying weaknesses.

 

[dfuze]

no, because they can still learn useful info

 

[zebano]

I'm not quite sure where the cutoff is but I think that after 8th or 9th grade the option to go to trade school should be available. First off some people are genuinely interested in these things and an apprenticeship is the best way to learn hands-on skills (which has nothing to do with being stupid). I really don't want a stupid electrician/plumber/whatever working in my home. That said, I really don't think the problem is stupidity so much as an issue of motivation. I was smart and really didn't get interested in school until my second year of university (when I got the gen-eds out of the way and only had to take math/comp-sci courses).

 

[MrChad]

I don't like the term stupid. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NOT having a high school diploma or college degree and we need to stop putting down people that do not have it as if they are some lower form of life. I get sick of seeing people talking to someone and the person says "I didn't finish high school" and the person they are talking to reacts like that person just told them they had committed a crime or did something bad. People that had to drop out of high school are made to feel inferior. Then someone says they went to college and everyone acts like because they got in the door to a school they have ascended to another level of humanity. If everyone tells you that you will fail because you didn't finish school that is a hard obstacle to overcome.

I have said it before on here, but I have a brother who is dyslexic. He was told in 10th grade that he could not learn anymore. My parents were advised to remove him from school. He never attended another classroom again. That was over 20 years ago. He now earns more than I do, has his own business, and lives a good life. He still can't read or write well, but he is one hell of a salesman and is good with mechanical things so he used those skills . Does that make him somehow less human because he doesn't have a degree ? I know many 'educated' people that are sitting at home on unemployment.

There are a bunch of jobs that do not require reading, math, writing above about a 6th grade level. Many people are better at learning by doing than sitting in a classroom . I think they need to bring back vocational schools from years ago and start teaching trades like masonry, carpentry, landscaping, plumbing, welding and more.

:thumbsup:

 

[CRXican]

I should have started studying/learning a trade during college or right after. Having a 4 year degree is nice to have as it's becoming the minimum standard for even some entry-level jobs.

Other than being able to meet that requirement, my specific degree has done nothing for me.

 

[waggy]

I think everyone should have the right to a high school diploma. But, I think schools put way too much emphasis on academic learning/going to university. It's not for everyone. Just because your a tradesman doesn't mean you're dumb. There's a lot of money in it.

exactly. not everyone has the mentality (not talking smarts) for a office.

my brother-in-law is very smart. there is no way in hell he would survive in a office environment. He has always had a passion for rebuilding trucks (at 16 he was helping rebuild semi truck engines for a company in the town he lived). so he went to some tech school in Arizona (i think) and now travels all over the US working on trucks/cars etc. makes a lot of money doing it too.

My Step father is another. he was working construction at 15 (dropped out of high school) by the time he was 39 he owned a construction company. now way in hell would he do well in a real office.

I worked for years in a office. i hated it. now that im retired i been helping a few of the farmers around me. i prefer being outside then stuck in a office

 

[Gooberlx2]

I'm all for vocational schools being an alternative to traditional highschool. My brother-in-law dropped out of HS and got his GED at some point, after fucking his life up a bit. He does well now as a foreman for a wind farm maintenance crew, but he would have been better and earlier served with trades classes in school, rather than having academics shoved down his throat.

 

[SP33Demon]

Absolutely, there are many plumbers and welders who make a dam good living.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Sounds like it would of benefited you the most. Instead of taking a call from some 90 year old lady and walking her through finding the power button on her computer you would actually have a job where you make money.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Inspired by the "kids too stupid to know what = means thread"

After reading that thread, I got to thinking - Why should we waste money trying to teach children who are too stupid/lazy to learn? Wouldn't our resources be better spent teaching these kids labor skills?

I think it would be a great idea.

I think kids who are stupid and wasted their time learning nothing through High School will have nothing going for them when they [manage to] graduate/drop out. They will most likely end up on welfare, or work entirely too hard to make a meager living.

I know this for a fact. I look out my window and see these kids every day. They'll never amount to anything no matter how hard they try.

Instead, we should take these kids and rewind back a few years. We teach them a skill that requires no knowledge. These kids can be conditioned for labor, instead of academics.

For example, they can be trained to pave roads or highways, learn the arts of heating and ventilation, or even train them to defend our country from a young age. They could learn skills and disipline that would give them enough to live their lives productively, and not be doomed to working in McDonalds or end up homeless or in jail.

Let's face it. Kids who don't go to, or fail school miserably will have no choices in life. By allowing them to learn a trade early on, they can at least get a head start.

There are many people with no education that can succeed financially doing manual labor. Hell, I'd bet if you put a well-educated kid versus one that had years of job experience or training in todays job market...the kid who has the job experience would probably come out better.

What does ATOT think?

Nope, they should be given guns and grenades and sent overseas to fight the evil.

 

[Daedalus685]

Is there much tiering in US schools?

Up to and including grade 8 everyone is in the same class in Ontario (unless they are far ahead or FAR behind) but a large separation begins in grade 9. There are two primary streams (they call them university and college, or academic and applied). Those in applied are not prepared to go to university, they need not take the same number of mathematics courses and instead can learn how to weld, repair a transmission, build a house, service a computer and other such tasks to get them very well based to start a trade (whatever that may be) right after grade 12 (or during as the case may be given some exceptional co-op programs) or even get into many 2 year college programs. In England the system is tiered even greater than this.

Those who did the trade route often do finish school, they still learn basic English writing skills. They learn basic mathematics as well. More often than not they actually bother to come to school too... at least the majority.

I get the impression that every student in the US is prepared for university and something like this isn't an option for many.. Perhaps I am wrong. We have no such thing as the SATs either. There are some standardized testing exams in grade school used for stats Canada (good and bad schools) and detection of gifted/remedial students as well as basic literacy in grade 10, but that is it.

 

[MotF Bane]

Yep. Less college graduates, more trade schools.

 

[darkewaffle]

I always kind of figured other regions had this, but from the sounds of it maybe not.

I went to high school in south central PA and when you reached 9th or 10th grade you could opt into the Vo-Tech (vocational technologies) program. This was an entirely seperate building that the students attended, geared towards those less academically inclined. It taught welding, wiring, mechanics, agriculture, and I'm sure other trades. Students that were part of the program spent at least half (Im not sure specifically) of the year in VoTech and were still required to complete a certain number of academic courses as well.

Come graduation, they were relatively experienced in a trade and also had a diploma. As far as I know it attracted a lot of stupid rednecks, but also gave a lot of people a productive outlet when they weren't really successful in purely academic pursuits.

 

[Regs]

No, stupid kids should just grow up and train other stupid kids to ask me if I want fries with that.

If stupid kids tried to learn a trade then we just have stupid plumbers, stupid framers, etc...

Not necessarily but it depends on the degree of stupid. Kids who will learn trades will obtain a respectful job doing something worthwhile. At the same time they are not taking out student subsidized loans from the Feds, which inflates the price of college for everyone else.