Should online harassment be criminalized just the same as harassing someone in real life is?

[kt]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: kt

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

You are making an unsubstantiated jump here. I so no information saying that the dead girl actually said anything bad about the other girl.

It's been in several articles. Read a few more.

Megan's parents later learned that Megan's cyber friend, 16-year-old Josh Evans, was really the mother of Megan's former friend who wanted to know what Megan was saying about her daughter.

Text

Read what he is saying. "...no information saying that the dead girl actually said anything bad about the other girl."

And no information saying she didn't. The mom obviously had reason to believe she was. Call me a cynic, but I'm leaning towards it being at the very least POSSIBLE that the chick who killed herself was talking trash. I know, I know, 13 year old girls would NEVER do something like that, right? :roll:

The fact still remains that the mom has stated a reason she did this, other than simply trying to torture some pathetic, depressed teenager. Of course, she might be full of it, but it's wrong to just assume she did it sadistically.

First off, I am not saying that the dead girl is not trash talking. That was not my point. You're lecturing someone about going on no information given yet you are basing your assumption on no information. Hypocrite anyone?

Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that it's alright for someone to torment another person as long as a reason is given? The fact that the person who is supposedly the adult and should have the common sense here is the very same person who is committing the senseless act. If you read some of the comments on your own link, the mother supposedly knows about the dead girl "problems" (depression, ADD, etc). I don't know if you know anyone who is on medication for depression or not, but it doesn't take much to push them over the edge. I don't know what the mother's intention is but she should have more common sense then to do what she did knowing that the dead girl is on depression medication. Ignorance is not a defense.

 

[Agentbolt]

Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that it's alright for someone to torment another person as long as a reason is given? The fact that the person who is supposedly the adult and should have the common sense here is the very same person who is committing the senseless act.

You are wrong, I'm saying the mother didn't torment this girl. Did she exercise bad judgement? Absolutely. Is she a bad person? Probably. But she didn't criminally stalk or harass this kid like some people are saying.

I don't know if you know anyone who is on medication for depression or not, but it doesn't take much to push them over the edge.

Look, if you daughter is SO screwed up that someone saying "you're a slut" or "nobody likes you" is going to push her over the edge into suicide-land, then that girl shouldn't be on MySpace in the first place, in the same way a Hemophiliac shouldn't ride around in bumper cars. End of story.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Online harassment is wrong and harmful behavior that should be punishable and crimilaized

I should clarify, I agree with this. You shouldn't get a blank check to torture people online and have the solution be for the victim to cower in fear of ever going back into a chat room or on Myspace.

My beef with THIS scenario is that what this girl was subjected to was NOT online harassment. She got teased briefly and ineffectively, and killed herself over it because she was crazy and pathetic.

It's not torture if you can GET UP AND WALK AWAY FROM IT.

You can block people. You can NOT visit the site for a while. You can even find some horrible disgusting pictures and troll them right back, have some fun with the assholes. Change logins. Tell the admins of the social networking site. IGNORE IT. Play a full-screen game. Go for a walk. Get laid. Stop whining.

Online harassment is NEVER torture. Not even a damn bit.

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that it's alright for someone to torment another person as long as a reason is given? The fact that the person who is supposedly the adult and should have the common sense here is the very same person who is committing the senseless act.

You are wrong, I'm saying the mother didn't torment this girl. Did she exercise bad judgement? Absolutely. Is she a bad person? Probably. But she didn't criminally stalk or harass this kid like some people are saying.

I don't know if you know anyone who is on medication for depression or not, but it doesn't take much to push them over the edge.

Look, if you daughter is SO screwed up that someone saying "you're a slut" or "nobody likes you" is going to push her over the edge into suicide-land, then that girl shouldn't be on MySpace in the first place, in the same way a Hemophiliac shouldn't ride around in bumper cars. End of story.

Nothing is ever black and white. This is why we have ranges of punishments and allow courts to determine sentencing. Calling someone a poopyhead and calling someone an ethnic slur can both be considered harassment, but one is obviously a greater offense than another.

This is why we let our peers, in the form of a jury, decide what the line is and if that line was crossed.

 

[kt]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that it's alright for someone to torment another person as long as a reason is given? The fact that the person who is supposedly the adult and should have the common sense here is the very same person who is committing the senseless act.

You are wrong, I'm saying the mother didn't torment this girl. Did she exercise bad judgement? Absolutely. Is she a bad person? Probably. But she didn't criminally stalk or harass this kid like some people are saying.

I don't know if you know anyone who is on medication for depression or not, but it doesn't take much to push them over the edge.

Look, if you daughter is SO screwed up that someone saying "you're a slut" or "nobody likes you" is going to push her over the edge into suicide-land, then that girl shouldn't be on MySpace in the first place, in the same way a Hemophiliac shouldn't ride around in bumper cars. End of story.

Let's see how I am wrong.

The mother created a fake account pretending to be someone else. Check.
The mother specifically targeted the dead girl with the fake account. Check.
The mother knows about the dead girl's depression. Check.
The mother played with the dead girl's emotion pretending to be a "cute" boy. Check.

Not a torment to some people, but certainly to a 14 year old girl with depression problem it is a torment.

You like jumping to conclusions on everything don't you?

 

[Agentbolt]

Not a torment to some people, but certainly to a 14 year old girl with depression problem it is a torment.

Not a "torment" to MOST people. Are you aware of what the Internet is? Someone that unstable should NOT be on Myspace. They just shouldn't.

I could argue with you forever about this, but the fact is, the mom's not getting charged. Plenty of people hate her now, but plenty of other people realize the dead chick's mom should never have let her kid on Myspace in the first place. Things worked out the way they should.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: puffff
That doesnt get to the root of the problem though. Online harassment is wrong and harmful behavior that should be punishable and crimilaized. By saying potential victims should use other methods to avoid it is putting all the responsibility on the victim and telling potential harassers that they will suffer no consequences for their actions.

We should all learn to use those options you referred to, just as we learn to drive defensively and not wander down dark alleys alone, but we should also go after the wrongdoers as much as possible.

It's not that simple.

The amount of money and time it takes to investigate and catch these people is substantial and often not worth it since the severity of most harassment over the net is nothing compared to it happening in real life. There are many privacy laws to consider here which heavily prevent catching these people for every case that would be reported if it were criminalized. There would have to be some serious filtering to take place which explains which cases will be pursued and which ones will not because there simply isn't enough money, time, or man power to pull it off. It will take additional man power, money, and time for the filtering process too.

Until it becomes much easier to catch them, taking further action beyond future prevention techniques is simply not possible while maintaining privacy laws which cannot be removed for this purpose since it will most likely result in abuse. They are there for a reason. Personally I am not willing to pay the ridiculous increase in tax dollars which would be required to fund this kind of project permanently.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Not a torment to some people, but certainly to a 14 year old girl with depression problem it is a torment.

Not a "torment" to MOST people. Are you aware of what the Internet is? Someone that unstable should NOT be on Myspace. They just shouldn't.

I could argue with you forever about this, but the fact is, the mom's not getting charged. Plenty of people hate her now, but plenty of other people realize the dead chick's mom should never have let her kid on Myspace in the first place. Things worked out the way they should.

What is the internet? Please explain yourself and all the 'maybe' 2 decades you have been on this planet.

MySpace is used by multi-million dollar corporations. You saying she shouldn't be on AOL too?

MySpace is about self-expression something that is a given in this country...people are free to dislike your self-expression, but they are not allowed to attack you.

I am seriously hoping you are just trolling here and this is not a real belief of your's

 

[Agentbolt]

I am seriously hoping you are just trolling here and this is not a real belief of your's

Sorry buddy. Even more sorry to have to inform you that this is how MOST people feel. Otherwise, guess what, mom who messaged dead chick would be getting charged with something right now.

The internet is designed for anonymous slandering. And porn, of course. Do you really expect anyone here to believe you'd go around screaming your insane little arguments if you weren't totally anonymous?

MySpace isn't a happy kitten and sunshine-laden haven for troubled youths to escape social difficulties. It's a social networking sight for attention whores. If you want to get laws enacted to make it illegal to say anything mean about other people on the Internet, based on the off chance they might be some pathetic loser who can't handle one or two quasi-insults without offing themselves, then go for it. You'll get nowhere with it, naturally, but this obviously concerns you very deeply.

Suicidal, mentally disturbed 13 year old girls are asking for trouble by being on Myspace. Sorry, that's the way it is. You and the dead chick's mom freaking out and throwing blame everywhere possible isn't going to change that. Stop being such a vagina and deal with it.

 

[kt]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Not a torment to some people, but certainly to a 14 year old girl with depression problem it is a torment.

Not a "torment" to MOST people. Are you aware of what the Internet is? Someone that unstable should NOT be on Myspace. They just shouldn't.

I could argue with you forever about this, but the fact is, the mom's not getting charged. Plenty of people hate her now, but plenty of other people realize the dead chick's mom should never have let her kid on Myspace in the first place. Things worked out the way they should.

What is the internet? Please explain yourself and all the 'maybe' 2 decades you have been on this planet.

MySpace is used by multi-million dollar corporations. You saying she shouldn't be on AOL too?

MySpace is about self-expression something that is a given in this country...people are free to dislike your self-expression, but they are not allowed to attack you.

I am seriously hoping you are just trolling here and this is not a real belief of your's

There is no point in trying to talk to him about something that he obviously is seeing in black & white. Each reply he gets is like throwing a bread crumb under the bridge and you know who lives under the bridge?

 

[mobobuff]

Until the OSI model allows for bullets, knives and penises to pass through the wires, I think not.

 

[kt]

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Until the OSI model allows for bullets, knives and penises to pass through the wires, I think not.

Wow. Ignorance in its most revealing form.

 

[Agentbolt]

Wow. Ignorance in its most revealing form.

Because he doesn't share your exceptional ability to have your feelings hurt and feel victimized by mean Internet people, doesn't necessarily make him ignorant.

 

[kt]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Wow. Ignorance in its most revealing form.

Because he doesn't share your exceptional ability to have your feelings hurt and feel victimized by mean Internet people, doesn't necessarily make him ignorant.

Ignorant to the fact that criminal acts are limited to violent acts. Way to jump conclusions dude. Again.

Do you own one of these yet?

 

[preCRT]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
I don't think there should be any difference. The same motive is there, the same behavior is there-- just because there's a computer connection separating you, doesn't mean you should be absolved. This woman should get nailed both civilly and criminally.

That woman should be locked up, lose her home & children.

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: jandrews
no, because you can avoid the internet and it is a completely optional part of life. Real life harrassment often you have no choice to escape your own life and it can be difficult to avoid much more so than just not reading an email or going to your myspace profile.

Agreed.

You can hang up a phone and ignore a call, yet telephone harassment is both a misdemeanor and a felony (if you have prior harassment charges) in the state of Washington.

 

[Agentbolt]

Ignorant to the fact that criminal acts are limited to violent acts. Way to jump conclusions dude. Again.

I'm not jumping to conclusions, I'm just in awe of how many people are vilifying this woman as if she set out to make this girl kill herself. She did something stupid and weird, not malicious. I'm going to stop arguing in this thread though. The battle can rage in here forever, but at the end of the day, the mom's not going to even get a slap on the wrist for this. Which she shouldn't. You know why? Because she's not responsible for that girl killing herself, that girl being a suicidal loser is what is responsible.

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: kt

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Until the OSI model allows for bullets, knives and penises to pass through the wires, I think not.

Wow. Ignorance in its most revealing form.

I didn't read the WAY TOO LONG article posted in the OP. I was simply responding to the question proposed in the topic title. So you may very well be correct about my ignorance. (But I'm still not going to read the article.)

Edit: It appears that I did read this article a few weeks ago when it was posted on Digg. I felt very sorry for the girl and very angry towards the adults. However, I do not consider it harassment.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: MartyMcFly3
Lets say A harasses B online.

If B doesn't know A in real life: shouldn't be punished for harassment.
If B knows A in real life: should work like any other harassment (telephone, mail, etc.)

Sounds fair to me. I'd hate to have to give up my right to flame ATOTers


Of course, I think there should be an exception if someone goes to the effort of finding someone else's RL name/address/phone number to continue the harassment.

The distinction should be between harassing THEM, or harassing their online persona.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Stop being such a vagina and deal with it.

WTF do you know about vaginas, other than wiki?

 

[Agentbolt]

WTF do you know about vaginas, other than wiki?

Clever stuff! :thumbsup: No wonder you're so popular around here!

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

WTF do you know about vaginas, other than wiki?

Clever stuff! :thumbsup: No wonder you're so popular around here!

Actually I am not so popular, but thanks?

 

[AreaCode7O7]

Answer to question in the thread title: Yes. Harassment is illegal, no matter the method of the harassment.

Answer the assumed question many posts (Is the mother a criminal for what she did?): That would have to be determined in a court of law.

Online harassment could be criminalized without necessarily making this woman a criminal. It would be up to a judge and jury to determine whether her actions met the definition of harassment.