Should online harassment be criminalized just the same as harassing someone in real life is?

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: jandrews
no, because you can avoid the internet and it is a completely optional part of life. Real life harrassment often you have no choice to escape your own life and it can be difficult to avoid much more so than just not reading an email or going to your myspace profile.

Agreed.

I agree with respect to Myspace. However, personal email has become a necessary part of life for many people. I, for example, get electronic statements and bills, just as I get in the regular mail. It's certainly my primary method of correspondence with people who aren't local (like family). Now, obviously one should be able to block a spammer, but if they're savvy and malicious enough to circumvent spam filters then that probably should be harassment.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: puffff

Originally posted by: jandrews

Originally posted by: compman25

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: jandrews
no, because you can avoid the internet and it is a completely optional part of life. Real life harrassment often you have no choice to escape your own life and it can be difficult to avoid much more so than just not reading an email or going to your myspace profile.

Agreed.

same :thumbsup:

I am so used to people disagreeing with me this is a strange feeling!

I disagree. The internet is quickly becoming an integral part of people's lives for communcation, much like phones and mail. If someone constantly sent me threatening letters, or called my phone to say nasty things to me, you cant just say, well, you have the option of not having a mailbox and not installing phone service.

The right to use the internet without excessive harassment should be the same as the above two services that I mentioned.

You can block people using most services though (such as email accounts/social networking sites). You can't block the mailman though.

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: jandrews
no, because you can avoid the internet and it is a completely optional part of life. Real life harrassment often you have no choice to escape your own life and it can be difficult to avoid much more so than just not reading an email or going to your myspace profile.

Agreed.

You can avoid being directly harassed via the Internet. However, there's not a definite line separating the Internet and real life today. How many times have you talked to someone in person about something you read on the Internet? The Internet is part of life for many people now. The problem with harassment via the Internet is not just what happens on the Internet. It's what happens in real life because of what happens on the Internet.

If it's not just on the internet, and spills over to harassment in "the real world" surely they could use the laws which apply to the real world? Since they can't, maybe it was online only, and didn't spill over into the real world.

 

[murderburger]

The internet is a tool , simply another form of communication. What Lori Drew did is use the internet to abuse and harass Megan Meier. Sure one can simply log off but that doesn't erase what Lori Drew intended to do when she created the myspace account to stalk. How is this any different from predators who troll myspace for underage victims. To those who want the abusers identity kept private because they have children, remember Lori Drew's daughter took part in the scheme. She should share some responsibility.

I don't think Lori Drew is responsible for the suicide but she is responsible for the abuse.

 

[manowar821]

Who the hell kills them-self over internet fights? It's INTERNETS. It's "SERIOUS BUSINESS".

No it shouldn't be a crime, it should be free reign like it always has been. If you raise your kid to kill herself because people on the internet are being mean, you did something wrong as a parent.

 

[Agentbolt]

How is this any different from predators who troll myspace for underage victims.

Uh, how about the fact that those predators molest little kids? This woman SAID SOME VAGUELY MEAN THINGS. That's it. Nothing more. It's not her fault the stupid kid decided to kill herself over it.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: amdhunter
Ugh, if you are being harrassed online...you can either;

1) Turn the damned computer off.
2) Block emails/im's/whatever from that person.
3) Stop using the social networking site that is causing the problem.

A huge part of what is defined as harassment has to do with one's inability to avoid/stop it. The reasons quoted here and many more are enough for me to believe that harassment over the internet should be treated differently. Unlike the real world, there are much more effective methods to stop someone from harassing you over the internet. You cannot as easily ban someone from calling your cell phone as you can ban them from an internet forum for instance.

Considering these very effective methods, I ask why we should consider making a mountain out of a mole hill? I like our currently installed easy buttons.

 

[alkemyst]

Slander and libel are very real even if commited online.

Cyber-bullying is already a crime in many places if not all if it's pursued the right way.

However; there are also ways around it.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: jandrews
no, because you can avoid the internet and it is a completely optional part of life. Real life harrassment often you have no choice to escape your own life and it can be difficult to avoid much more so than just not reading an email or going to your myspace profile.

So if a popular alleyway saves you 15 mins on your walk each day, yet you get mugged anytime you use it; that would be ok since you could always take the long way around?

The internet at least for me is not optional not because of the entertainment value, but because in my line of work like many people it is required.

 

[alkemyst]

I wish we could conduct a test where anyone that believes one should just 'turn the internet off' be allowed to be harrassed in anyway the masses decide to here.

 

[murderburger]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

How is this any different from predators who troll myspace for underage victims.

Uh, how about the fact that those predators molest little kids? This woman SAID SOME VAGUELY MEAN THINGS. That's it. Nothing more. It's not her fault the stupid kid decided to kill herself over it.

Abuse whether it is physical or verbal is the same thing, they affect the victims the same way. Sure people should be tougher and stand up for themselves but these people knew this girl was vulnerable, so they took advantage of her. I really don't care if they are charged with a crime. I think the internet mob justice they are experiencing is good enough.

 

[Chryso]

Originally posted by: murderburger

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

How is this any different from predators who troll myspace for underage victims.

Uh, how about the fact that those predators molest little kids? This woman SAID SOME VAGUELY MEAN THINGS. That's it. Nothing more. It's not her fault the stupid kid decided to kill herself over it.

Abuse whether it is physical or verbal is the same thing, they affect the victims the same way. Sure people should be tougher and stand up for themselves but these people knew this girl was vulnerable, so they took advantage of her.

I agree. If this was one kid messing with another kid or one adult messing with another adult I wouldn't have a big problem with it. But this was not like that. It was not a level playing field.

 

[Agentbolt]

Abuse whether it is physical or verbal is the same thing, they affect the victims the same way. Sure people should be tougher and stand up for themselves but these people knew this girl was vulnerable, so they took advantage of her.

According to the article, the mom started doing this in the first place to see what the suicide girl was saying about HER daughter. The chick who killed herself was talking trash too. This is nothing more than a petty, typical girl slam-fest that the mother got involved in. There was no malicious intent here apparently, as you're implying there was.

I still love how people are completely ignoring that when you boil it down, this girl killed herself because someone said something mean. Not even like, viciously mean, just kind of mean. That's it. She was crazy and pathetic and killed herself because she couldn't handle the slightest little trivial incident. It's sad and tragic, but it's not something the other mom or her daughter should be charged with a CRIME for.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: jandrews
no, because you can avoid the internet and it is a completely optional part of life. Real life harrassment often you have no choice to escape your own life and it can be difficult to avoid much more so than just not reading an email or going to your myspace profile.

So if a popular alleyway saves you 15 mins on your walk each day, yet you get mugged anytime you use it; that would be ok since you could always take the long way around?

The internet at least for me is not optional not because of the entertainment value, but because in my line of work like many people it is required.

It's not about that. The point to consider here is that there are much easier solutions to solve this problem than there are in real life which do not need to reduce the freedoms of the victim. Nothing is concrete. There are ways around anything, but I believe that further action with consequences as severe as those in real life do not need to be within the first few steps in attempt to resolve the issue. If the problem goes beyond that then we should bust the person hard. The internet allows us the luxury of producing these kinds of solutions. I say we utilize them before jumping the gun.

 

[Chryso]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Abuse whether it is physical or verbal is the same thing, they affect the victims the same way. Sure people should be tougher and stand up for themselves but these people knew this girl was vulnerable, so they took advantage of her.

According to the article, the mom started doing this in the first place to see what the suicide girl was saying about HER daughter. The chick who killed herself was talking trash too.

You are making an unsubstantiated jump here. I so no information saying that the dead girl actually said anything bad about the other girl.

 

[teclis1023]

harassment is harassment, no matter the format of delivery.

 

[murderburger]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Abuse whether it is physical or verbal is the same thing, they affect the victims the same way. Sure people should be tougher and stand up for themselves but these people knew this girl was vulnerable, so they took advantage of her.

According to the article, the mom started doing this in the first place to see what the suicide girl was saying about HER daughter. The chick who killed herself was talking trash too. This is nothing more than a petty, typical girl slam-fest that the mother got involved in. There was no malicious intent here apparently, as you're implying there was.

I still love how people are completely ignoring that when you boil it down, this girl killed herself because someone said something mean. Not even like, viciously mean, just kind of mean. That's it. She was crazy and pathetic and killed herself because she couldn't handle the slightest little trivial incident. It's sad and tragic, but it's not something the other mom or her daughter should be charged with a CRIME for.

If your going to assume what my opinion is , at least use the whole quote. I never said what they did was criminal. If there wasn't bad intentions why did another thirteen year old girl refuse to take part when Lori drew tried to recruit her. It seems she knew what they were doing was wrong and didn't want to take part.

This thread blows my post quota for this year.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: teclis1023
harassment is harassment, no matter the format of delivery.

No, there are different severities of harassment. Different severities and different formats of delivery have different effects on people. Some effects are considered worse than others. This is the generalized reason for why breaking different laws results in different consequences.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: teclis1023
harassment is harassment, no matter the format of delivery.

No, there are different severities of harassment. Different severities and different formats of delivery have different effects on people. Some effects are considered worse than others. This is the generalized reason for why breaking different laws results in different consequences.

But that is the op's argument no? Should online harassment be treated the same way as real life ones? I say yes. Obviously there are degrees but it is no different than real life harassment.

 

[Agentbolt]

You are making an unsubstantiated jump here. I so no information saying that the dead girl actually said anything bad about the other girl.

It's been in several articles. Read a few more.

Megan's parents later learned that Megan's cyber friend, 16-year-old Josh Evans, was really the mother of Megan's former friend who wanted to know what Megan was saying about her daughter.

Text

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: sdifox
But that is the op's argument no? Should online harassment be treated the same way as real life ones? I say yes. Obviously there are degrees but it is no different than real life harassment.

Sort of. Read my previous post:

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: jandrews
no, because you can avoid the internet and it is a completely optional part of life. Real life harrassment often you have no choice to escape your own life and it can be difficult to avoid much more so than just not reading an email or going to your myspace profile.

So if a popular alleyway saves you 15 mins on your walk each day, yet you get mugged anytime you use it; that would be ok since you could always take the long way around?

The internet at least for me is not optional not because of the entertainment value, but because in my line of work like many people it is required.

It's not about that. The point to consider here is that there are much easier solutions to solve this problem than there are in real life which do not need to reduce the freedoms of the victim. Nothing is concrete. There are ways around anything, but I believe that further action with consequences as severe as those in real life do not need to be within the first few steps in attempt to resolve the issue. If the problem goes beyond that then we should bust the person hard. The internet allows us the luxury of producing these kinds of solutions. I say we utilize them before jumping the gun.

In most real life situations, we do not have the kinds of options available to solve this problem that we do over the internet. If we treated harassment exactly like we do in real life, then those solutions would be ignored more often than they are now and instead would jump straight to actions normally taken in real life. I am arguing that we should not treat it exactly like we do in real life since we have these really effective solutions to take advantage of first. If those don't work then I am all for the typical real life solutions to the problem.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: teclis1023
harassment is harassment, no matter the format of delivery.

agree, but does it need to be criminalized?

Our society is already pussified enough.

This girl did not kill herself simply because she was harassed, there are deeper issues at work.

Think about this....there is all kinds of "verbal harassment" on this forum, if person A who is emotionally and mentally weaker and has personal issues that put them on the edge and Persons B & C here says something that may put them over and Person A suicides.....should Persons B&C be held responsible for person A's Death?

Should Anandtech be held criminally responsible?...because I guarantee that is the next step...people will follow the money.


Bullying and harassment goes on all over the animal kingdom and man has been doing it since we arrived here and as long as we are here it will continue...the internet is just another means....if you can't step away from your computer to get away from it, or choose not to make it so harassing emails and IM's don't get to you, then you probably have bigger problems.

 

[kt]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

You are making an unsubstantiated jump here. I so no information saying that the dead girl actually said anything bad about the other girl.

It's been in several articles. Read a few more.

Megan's parents later learned that Megan's cyber friend, 16-year-old Josh Evans, was really the mother of Megan's former friend who wanted to know what Megan was saying about her daughter.

Text

Read what he is saying. "...no information saying that the dead girl actually said anything bad about the other girl."

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: kt

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

You are making an unsubstantiated jump here. I so no information saying that the dead girl actually said anything bad about the other girl.

It's been in several articles. Read a few more.

Megan's parents later learned that Megan's cyber friend, 16-year-old Josh Evans, was really the mother of Megan's former friend who wanted to know what Megan was saying about her daughter.

Text

Read what he is saying. "...no information saying that the dead girl actually said anything bad about the other girl."

And no information saying she didn't. The mom obviously had reason to believe she was. Call me a cynic, but I'm leaning towards it being at the very least POSSIBLE that the chick who killed herself was talking trash. I know, I know, 13 year old girls would NEVER do something like that, right? :roll:

The fact still remains that the mom has stated a reason she did this, other than simply trying to torture some pathetic, depressed teenager. Of course, she might be full of it, but it's wrong to just assume she did it sadistically.

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: sdifox
But that is the op's argument no? Should online harassment be treated the same way as real life ones? I say yes. Obviously there are degrees but it is no different than real life harassment.

Sort of. Read my previous post:

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: jandrews
no, because you can avoid the internet and it is a completely optional part of life. Real life harrassment often you have no choice to escape your own life and it can be difficult to avoid much more so than just not reading an email or going to your myspace profile.

So if a popular alleyway saves you 15 mins on your walk each day, yet you get mugged anytime you use it; that would be ok since you could always take the long way around?

The internet at least for me is not optional not because of the entertainment value, but because in my line of work like many people it is required.

It's not about that. The point to consider here is that there are much easier solutions to solve this problem than there are in real life which do not need to reduce the freedoms of the victim. Nothing is concrete. There are ways around anything, but I believe that further action with consequences as severe as those in real life do not need to be within the first few steps in attempt to resolve the issue. If the problem goes beyond that then we should bust the person hard. The internet allows us the luxury of producing these kinds of solutions. I say we utilize them before jumping the gun.

In most real life situations, we do not have the kinds of options available to solve this problem that we do over the internet. If we treated harassment exactly like we do in real life, then those solutions would be ignored more often than they are now and instead would jump straight to actions normally taken in real life. I am arguing that we should not treat it exactly like we do in real life since we have these really effective solutions to take advantage of first. If those don't work then I am all for the typical real life solutions to the problem.

That doesnt get to the root of the problem though. Online harassment is wrong and harmful behavior that should be punishable and crimilaized. By saying potential victims should use other methods to avoid it is putting all the responsibility on the victim and telling potential harassers that they will suffer no consequences for their actions.

We should all learn to use those options you referred to, just as we learn to drive defensively and not wander down dark alleys alone, but we should also go after the wrongdoers as much as possible.

 

[Agentbolt]

Online harassment is wrong and harmful behavior that should be punishable and crimilaized

I should clarify, I agree with this. You shouldn't get a blank check to torture people online and have the solution be for the victim to cower in fear of ever going back into a chat room or on Myspace.

My beef with THIS scenario is that what this girl was subjected to was NOT online harassment. She got teased briefly and ineffectively, and killed herself over it because she was crazy and pathetic.