Should more Online shooters have long breaks in the action, like Counterstrike?

[Martimus]

I liked CS 0.7 because it was really easy to die, and there was only one life per round. I didn't like the updates as much, as all of the weapons became less powerful, taking away the realistic fear of death. Without that fear, the game lost a lot of its fun for me.

 

[JBT]

I Like CS:S and the BF series style. I like the Penalty and the social aspect that is brings to the games.

 

[EvilComputer92]

No.

That's the reason why games like CS and AA are so boring.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

You should try out COD4 Headquarters gametype.

 

[Bill Brasky]

I like round based play because it can encourage teamwork, which is incredibly fun when it works out.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Just to add, if players don't camp excessively and follow their objectives CS is a very fun game.

That's another thing. In CS, a great player can alter the course of a round.

You can see it in a CS round especially. After the initial group clashes, the teams get widdled down a little and you're looking at confronting people more often in 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 scenarios where great players will dominate lesser players.

In TF2, half of your deaths are going to be by nub simply from the sheer numbers you're always confronting.

So I think respawn games level the playing field a little which makes players feel better than they really are. Safety in numbers, I guess. Maybe you won't take the guy out, but the guy next to you will finish him off for you or take him out before he can kill you. In CS, as a noob or just a lousy player, you're going to be owned hard until you develop as a player. So it's not so much the fun factor, but, rather, the esteem factor that draws people to games with quick or instant respawn timers.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Getting owned hard is not fun though. Getting owned hard, then sitting around doing nothing for 5 minutes only to get owned again is even less fun. Doing that for months until you're finally good enough that it's not just die, wait, die, wait, is nothing short of awful tedium.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Getting owned hard is not fun though. Getting owned hard, then sitting around doing nothing for 5 minutes only to get owned again is even less fun. Doing that for months until you're finally good enough that it's not just die, wait, die, wait, is nothing short of awful tedium.

Actually getting pwned is the whole fricking point of multiplayer games.

You want to be a god and cut an unholy swath through the world with your uberness? Then there are about a million and a half single player games where you can level up to supreme studliness and cause unlimited and unrequited damage at your own discretion.

You want to play play against and with people? You're going to have to get used to and appreciate getting pwned.

Multiplayer gaming, by virtue of pitting players against other players and rewarding teamwork, is as much a sport as it is gaming. I don't know about you, but I played sports in high school at JV and varsity level and I recall, clearly, getting owned at first. In the same year I ran varsity track and played JV basketball. The BIGGEST thing you learn playing sports, if you're smart, is that failure is not a bad thing so long as you learn from it.

So it is with CS and it's why I can't play single player games any more. There's ZERO mental stimulation in following the linear path the developers set out for you. You may as well read a book instead. In CS, however, you need to constantly adapt and learn in order to not get pwned.

And compared to BF1942 or TF2, CS has stronger consequences and a steeper learning curve which gives it more challenge and more reward for your play time.

So you guys whine about it not being fun. It's only not fun if you get all butthurt and take it personal.

 

[videogames101]

CSS insta-respawn gun-game is fastest fps i've ever played, and i love fast fps's.

 

[potato28]

I like having a smallish period of waiting, but not an insane amount like 2 minutes, but in CS and other tact shooters it gives you time to plan and get others to help out in good plans.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: potato28
I like having a smallish period of waiting, but not an insane amount like 2 minutes, but in CS and other tact shooters it gives you time to plan and get others to help out in good plans.

Well, in CS, I seldom die early. If I'm rushing, I'm doing it alongside the whole team, but when defending, I'm gonna make sure I have an angle on any rushers. Also, on moderated servers, they'll kick guys for lolly-gagging(sp) and not trying to accomplish the objective, so the pace is never that bad.

 

[sandorski]

I like CSs system, but don't mind Timer systems used by others. I'm not as much a Instant Respawn fan like I was years ago. I need small breaks to let the adrenaline subside.

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
So I think respawn games level the playing field a little which makes players feel better than they really are. Safety in numbers, I guess. Maybe you won't take the guy out, but the guy next to you will finish him off for you or take him out before he can kill you. In CS, as a noob or just a lousy player, you're going to be owned hard until you develop as a player. So it's not so much the fun factor, but, rather, the esteem factor that draws people to games with quick or instant respawn timers.

If you want something where the best players will dominate, any of the slow paced, quasi-realistic stuff mentioned here is a poor choice. Look at the UT or Quake games instead. The best FPS in this respect is probably Descent 3 actually, although very few people still play that online.

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Getting owned hard is not fun though. Getting owned hard, then sitting around doing nothing for 5 minutes only to get owned again is even less fun. Doing that for months until you're finally good enough that it's not just die, wait, die, wait, is nothing short of awful tedium.

So you guys whine about it not being fun. It's only not fun if you get all butthurt and take it personal.

It's not fun if you have to sit out 20 minutes out of a half hour game. It's not always about ego. Some of us just want to get in the game and have some action to relax and have some simple fun, instead of trying to compete and become the best in the game.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

So you guys whine about it not being fun. It's only not fun if you get all butthurt and take it personal.

No sir. Ego never comes into it. Never needs to, for a simple fact.


Doing nothing is not fun. That's why games exist in the first place.


And counterstrike involves lots of doing absolutely nothing. For months. That's why it's boring. And when there are direct competitors out there providing the same style of gameplay, without "Oh, look, you died Timmy, got sit in the corner for a 5 minute time-out", you'd be nuts or a very boring person to take it up.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

It's funny. Most people complain how mindless entertainment has become. Repetitive television shows, shallow movies, bland music.......and then here you guys are complaining that a form of entertainment requires too much thought.

Anyway, I figured everybody who hates that game would deny that they don't play it because they can't stand being owned. I forgot that you guys are all terrible secure people. That said, even if you're only alive for 10 minutes of a half hour game, those ten minutes are worth two hours of TF2. Taking out another player is 10X the accomplishment because that other player was trying his hardest to kill you and to not get killed because he doesn't want to sit out either. And the game evolves as the round wears on. It goes from a series of group clashes to people scattered all over widdling each other down. it becomes highly tactical as you try to stay mobile but also concealed....and when the time comes to make your shot you need to make it count.

I play plenty of TF2 and find it also fun, but it's empty fun. I'll stab four guys in a row and make it out clean and they don't care. They're back in 10 seconds. I'll get sniped or nubbed by a crit rocket and I don't care, I'll be back in a few seconds fully reloaded and with full health.

I understand I'm in the minority of people who like some challenge with their fun. CLEARLY, since I thought WoW was a laughable POS game and that UO was perhaps the greatest of all time. But I have only my perspective to base my opinions on. I can't conceive of people sitting there at the end of a CS round staring blankly at the screen waiting impatiently for it to be over........I find myself recapping the round and planning for the next or watching the remaining player, who are probably better than me, play and see if I can pick something up.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

The respawn timer in QW is bearable, as long as it's set no higher than 20 seconds. I find TF2 infuriating because you waste so much time waiting, especially in sudden death.

I :heart: Q3 - non-stop chaos.

 

[EvilComputer92]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
So I think respawn games level the playing field a little which makes players feel better than they really are. Safety in numbers, I guess. Maybe you won't take the guy out, but the guy next to you will finish him off for you or take him out before he can kill you. In CS, as a noob or just a lousy player, you're going to be owned hard until you develop as a player. So it's not so much the fun factor, but, rather, the esteem factor that draws people to games with quick or instant respawn timers.

Totally False. CS requires half the skill of games like Unreal Tournament or Quake 3. In CS, it's always easy to get some cheap shot on a player who is probably 50 times better than you are and then camp in some obscure corner of the map until the round timer ends. UT does not allow you this luxury. If a player is truly better than you, it will be nearly impossible to kill him. He will dodge and jump like crazy and you will have a hard time getting a single shot to hit him. Meanwhile he will have perfected his accuracy to a point where you'll be dead before you have a chance to fight him properly.

There is no safe place on a map in these games. CS is much more noob friendly then anything fast paced.

 

[HannibalX]

I like CS myself. I don't care for games like Quake and Unreal when it comes to MP, just never got into it.

I spend most of my online gaming time playing on a 24/7 Office server. If you think CS is easy, find a good 24/7 office server with veteran players and see how well you do. I bet you get AWP'ed before you know whats happening.

 

[Sureshot324]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
The problem with what you are suggesting is that it bores more customers than it entertains them. It would just be adding one more small reason for some customers not to buy the game in favor of something else. There are so many FPS games to compete with.

Then why is CS still by far the most popular online shooter?

 

[CP5670]

I understand I'm in the minority of people who like some challenge with their fun.

I like a challenge too, but I don't like boredom. As I said earlier, there are other games out there where you don't have to compromise at all.

I like CS myself. I don't care for games like Quake and Unreal when it comes to MP, just never got into it.

I spend most of my online gaming time playing on a 24/7 Office server. If you think CS is easy, find a good 24/7 office server with veteran players and see how well you do. I bet you get AWP'ed before you know whats happening.

I could probably still do better than if you played UT or D3 with a bunch of veterans. One thing common to all of these semi-realistic games is their basic combat mechanics, where players move slowly and weapons are very powerful (and by and large, hitscan). This sort of balance always gives noobs and casual players a chance to land a lucky shot in, because there is hardly any element of dodging involved (and by extension, predicting the opponent's movements). This is arguably one of the reasons that they have gained in popularity.

It's one thing to prefer this sort of gameplay or find it fun, but arguing that it provides a greater "challenge" than anything else is laughable.

 

[HannibalX]

On the contrary I find Quake and Unreal MP to be quite easy. Run very very fast and shoot everywhere. Almost every weapon has splash damage so you can shoot the roof/floor/walls even remotely near the player and they die. Boo. In CS you actually have to hit the person you are shooting at and the hit-box system is pretty good.

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
It's funny. Most people complain how mindless entertainment has become. Repetitive television shows, shallow movies, bland music.......and then here you guys are complaining that a form of entertainment requires too much thought.

I like games that require thought, though it is not a requirement that I place on my online FPS. I usually play these games as a change of pace to other things, so what I want from them is action, and CS is short on it if you don't play focused and carefully which is not how I play it. I like to play relaxed, maybe screw around a bit at times; heck half the time I play, I'm barely awake. Make a mistake in CS, you sit out a couple of minutes. Make a mistake in TF2, you come right back. Anyway I don't play online FPS very often (no, it's not because I suck). TF2 is the only one I play atm and only occasionally, so my perspective is probably very different from yours.

 

[JAG87]

the reason cs is such a good game (and im talking about 1.6, not source) is because it requires pretty much every skill in gaming.


it requires stealth
it requires reaction time
it requires good aim
it requires recoil control
it requires good vision (some models are hard to spot in certain maps)
ir requires good hearing
it requires hand-eye syncronization
it requires team work
it requires good communication


What is required to be good at unreal or quake? quick reaction time, and a sturdy keyboard, thats it.

I dont think any other game will ever match cs 1.6, in fact I think I will still be playing it 10 years from now, and it will still have the most online players.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
I've been trying to get into another online shooter but none of them grab me like counterstrike did. I think I big part of the reason is most of the new ones have near constant action with no breaks, which gets kind of monotonous. In Counterstrike the longer breaks make it more social. It's more fun when you can get to know the people you're fragging! Also, when you're the last one left on your team, you KNOW everyone else is watching you through chasecam, which makes it more exciting, especially when you pull off a really nice kill.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Personally, I love the intensity of Unreal Tournament. UT99 Domination was a great game type that was all about hustle (try to control certain locations on a map) and UT3 Warfare is intense too (you have to hustle and figure out a way to help your team push forward). I guess I enjoy the sense of urgency that comes from an intense FPS.