Should minimum wage be abolished? Raised?

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Yzzim
Didn't the US have that problem back in the early 1900's when the Irish immigrants were coming in and working for pennies a day? Isn't that what started Unions and the minimum wage?

Exactly and why a basic union employee makes so much (not getting into why stupid financial planning/spending has so many of them not living well) yet only graduated high school and a tech course for 2-6 months. He pays his dues to the local union, they make bank, they flex the masses against the company.

A union is both good and bad.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

*shrug* I've needed money too, but I always do what's right, no matter what. If people don't have the integrity to do that, then they deserve the lower wages anyway.

But it only takes a few people willing work for lower wages to screw over the people who would like to hold out for higher wages.

If you're willing to work for a given wage, you may deserve that wage, but does someone who wants a higher wage deserve unemployment?

A minimum wage is a good idea, but it should be a reasonable minimum wage. Enough to live on, but barely. What it's at right now works pretty well.

Again, they tend to work themselves out. At that wage few are truly outstanding employees. Continual problems will eventually cost the business owner and he will be forced to adapt or get out.

Tell that to wal-mart.

AGAIN.

When Min wage has gone up so has jobs and the price of goods did not increase any more then they did the years before.

You can keep talking theory, but in the REAL world when Min wage has gone up, so have jobs and overall well being.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975


Tell that to wal-mart.

AGAIN.

When Min wage has gone up so has jobs and the price of goods did not increase any more then they did the years before.

You can keep talking theory, but in the REAL world when Min wage has gone up, so have jobs and overall well being.

You can always find a few examples that on the surface look contrary. But, the evidence does not support what you are suggesting. If it did, pople would raise minimum wage. Do you really think people won't do it becasue they are mean or something?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: glen

You can always find a few examples that on the surface look contrary. But, the evidence does not support what you are suggesting. If it did, pople would raise minimum wage. Do you really think people won't do it becasue they are mean or something?

Exactly...if paying more for labor = me doing better I am all for it as a business owner.

However these debates fail in the long run because yes those getting paid more have better lives (no doubt most of the time), but now other things suffer.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Amused
Well, I can speak as a small business owner who's starting employee wages are dictated by minimum wage + a certain % to stay competitive with other employers.

The day minimum wage is increased, so are my prices. I will not take the hit. Not only will my lower wage workers get a raise, but my higher wage employees will demand one so their cost of living needs will be met. To cover that, I will raise prices.

It is my opinion this will have a domino effect on the economy. As service and food sector employees get raises, prices on these goods and services will rise to meet the cost.

When prices on these go up, the cost of living for higher paid workers goes up. Therefore their current wages become worth less, lowering their standard of living, and they demand raises.

Folks, raising the minimum wage is a never ending cycle of higher prices and inflation. The higher wage workers will NOT give up their standard of living so the lower wage workers can have a higher one.

The key is making minimum wage jobs temporary through education and job training, as they are for most folks. Face it, if you are physically and mentally healthy and stuck for life in a minimum wage job, you have no one but yourself to blame. Most people work their way up from minimum wage and reach the middle class at least.

I could not have said it better myself.

What Amused said goes for business of all sizes that rely on minimum wage employees for their operations. The cost WILL be passed on to the customer.

 

[Babbles]

I think it is safe to say that there is no real econmic reasons to raise minimum wage. Sadly, though, there are many political ones; it sounds like a good way to pander to the people. One major reason I will not vote for any political candidate that spews such rhetoric (oddly enough most of those candidates are liberal).

 

[BlamoHammer]

Originally posted by: loki8481
at the least, I think it should be raised to keep pace with inflation levels.

 

[BlamoHammer]

I think the most ineffectual thing about minimum wage is the cost of living. For instance, while the CA minimum wage may in fact be enough to live on in some areas of the state, if you like anywhere near the Bay Area it doesn't even come close.

 

[FoBoT]

abolish

it is a meaningless worthless law

people that are satisfied with a minimum wage job have no drive, if they need a law to guarantee them a certain pay level, then they don't have what it takes to make it in the work place

 

[xchangx]

Imagine a hypothetical company with 20,100 employees. At the top are 100 executives who pay themselves an average of $4 million per year. The other 20,000 employees make minimum wage -- $5.15 per hour -- for 2,000 hours per year of work.

Those executive numbers sound top-heavy, but today they are not. Executive pay truly has been rising at a spectacular rate. For example, when Enron collapsed it had about 20,000 employees. According to the book Pipe Dreams by Robert Bryce:

"Enron filed documents in bankruptcy court that showed total cash payments of $309.8 million to a group of 144 top Enron executives during 2001. In addition, those same executives cashed in stock options worth $311.7 million."

That's more than $4 million per executive across 144 executives.

So in our hypothetical company, we have 100 executives making $400 million per year. We have 20,000 employees making about $200 million per year. If we simply cut the average executive pay from $4 million per year to $2 million per year, we can double the pay of rank and file employees in this company.

Could the executives manage to survive on $2 million rather than $4 million? Yes, they could. They could also survive on $1 million a year, or $500,000. Their pay is completely arbitrary. It has risen by a factor on 10 in the last 20 years -- In 1980, these same executives would have been making $400,000 instead of $4 million.

A common complaint about doubling the minimum wage is that it is "inflationary." The point of this example is to show that employee wages can be doubled without raising prices at all. Executives are now redistributing wealth from employees to themselves at such a remarkable rate that employee wages have fallen considerably. Simply by reversing this concentration of wealth, employee wages can rise to reasonable levels without changing consumer prices.

That has nothing to do with raising the minimum wage. All he talks about is docking pay from the executives and passing it down to the other employees.

 

[wiredspider]

In my microecon class, we actually talked about this. Since it's set so high now, there are more drop outs because they figure they can live off the minimum wage. Also increased unemployment as a result... However, if the wage were set by the "market", it would balence out... Should sorta make some sense....

 

[Shawn]

It got raised here in florida.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
When Min wage has gone up so has jobs and the price of goods did not increase any more then they did the years before.

You can keep talking theory, but in the REAL world when Min wage has gone up, so have jobs and overall well being.

in the REAL world, minimum wage hikes are only done when everyone who would normally be paid minimum wage is already paid a higher wage, so that there is no immediate effect.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: BlamoHammer

Originally posted by: loki8481
at the least, I think it should be raised to keep pace with inflation levels.

remarkably enough, there wasn't much inflation before the government started raising the cost of labor.