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Should men also have the "right to choose"

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nobodyknows said:
So giving women a choice of what to do with their own bodies is "sexist"??

Lame.
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Claiming that men must be forced to deal with their responsibilities while allowing women a way out is sexist, yes.

Are you for choice or against it? Or do you think only the man has the choice? What if the man wants it and the women doesn't? Can he then force her to go through a pregnancy?
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Is she not bound by the same rules that men are? Shouldn't she have thought about not having sex in knowledge of the possibility of pregnancy, just like the man?
 
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nobodyknows said:
Are you for choice or against it? Or do you think only the man has the choice? What if the man wants it and the women doesn't? Can he then force her to go through a pregnancy?
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I am soundly against abortion, for I feel it is wrong to kill an innocent for the actions of someone else. But, since it is legal, I have no choice but to accept it.

Would you support this set of rules? If no, why not?

1. Woman and man both want baby - no abortion, both support baby.
2. Woman does not want baby, man does - abortion, no support.
3. Woman wants baby, man does not - no abortion, no support.
4. Woman and man both do not want baby - abortion, no support.

No one is forced to have an abortion and no one is forced to be a parent against their will. The woman still have more rights than the man, but it is as close to equality as is possible without banning abortions or forcing abortions.
 
cybrsage said:
I am soundly against abortion, for I feel it is wrong to kill an innocent for the actions of someone else. But, since it is legal, I have no choice but to accept it.

Would you support this set of rules? If no, why not?

1. Woman and man both want baby - no abortion, both support baby.
2. Woman does not want baby, man does - abortion, no support.
3. Woman wants baby, man does not - no abortion, no support.
4. Woman and man both do not want baby - abortion, no support.

No one is forced to have an abortion and no one is forced to be a parent against their will. The woman still have more rights than the man, but it is as close to equality as is possible without banning abortions or forcing abortions.
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Obviously I support everything except the ridiculous concept of making the women pay for the kid because she doesn't believe in abortion.

As a grandparent who is raising a child for a no show "Dad" I support making the bastard pay for his choice. Plain enough? Babies cost money and the older they get, the more they cost. Why shouold the taxpayer get stuck supporting the children of deadbeat dads?
 
nobodyknows said:
Obviously I support everything except the ridiculous concept of making the women pay for the kid because she doesn't believe in abortion.

As a grandparent who is raising a child for a no show "Dad" I support making the bastard pay for his choice. Plain enough? Babies cost money and the older they get, the more they cost. Why shouold the taxpayer get stuck supporting the children of deadbeat dads?
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with no disrespect intended for your position, would you be similarly adamant if your were raising a child for a no show Mom?

Single dads are not unheard of at all.
 
Atreus21 said:
Claiming that men must be forced to deal with their responsibilities while allowing women a way out is sexist, yes.



Is she not bound by the same rules that men are? Shouldn't she have thought about not having sex in knowledge of the possibility of pregnancy, just like the man?
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They both thought about it and did it anyway. If she doesn't believe in abortion then the father needs to pay up. who else should pay for it? Please don't respond with the idiotic argument that the women should pay since it's "her choice". Nobody can force or coerce someone to have an abortion and since it would be very difficult for most women to have a job that pays well enough to support a child then either the taxpayer or the father needs to make up the difference. I choose the father.
 
Atreus21 said:
with no disrespect intended for your position, would you be similarly adamant if your were raising a child for a no show Mom?

Single dads are not unheard of at all.
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Yes. They need to pay up also. Why someone would have a kid and then flake out on them is beyond me.
 
nobodyknows said:
Obviously I support everything except the ridiculous concept of making the women pay for the kid because she doesn't believe in abortion.

As a grandparent who is raising a child for a no show "Dad" I support making the bastard pay for his choice. Plain enough? Babies cost money and the older they get, the more they cost. Why shouold the taxpayer get stuck supporting the children of deadbeat dads?
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Yep, you made it VERY plain you are a sexist.
 
Being a sexist person is not the right thing to do. You can be proud of your sexism, but sexism is like racism and something we should strive to remove, not be proud of.
 
nobodyknows said:
Obviously I support everything except the ridiculous concept of making the women pay for the kid because she doesn't believe in abortion.
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So you are arguing that women have a right to force their morals on others 😵


nobodyknows said:
They both thought about it and did it anyway. If she doesn't believe in abortion then the father needs to pay up. who else should pay for it? Please don't respond with the idiotic argument that the women should pay since it's "her choice". Nobody can force or coerce someone to have an abortion and since it would be very difficult for most women to have a job that pays well enough to support a child then either the taxpayer or the father needs to make up the difference. I choose the father.
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Seem like women who do not want to get abortions should practice abstinence(just like a man who does not want his kid aborted). The man is not responsible for the woman's beliefs. She has no right to enforce her morals on other people.

So in other words liberalism is inconsistent with reality. They have been saying for 50 years that women do not need men and it is perfectly fine for women to have child out of wedlock and get divorce for any reason you feel like it.
 
nobodyknows said:
Yes. They need to pay up also. Why someone would have a kid and then flake out on them is beyond me.
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Well, it's better than killing the child. Again, no disrespect (because this is going to sound nasty), but would you have preferred that your daughter aborted your grandchild?
 
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cybrsage said:
This is your normal line when you realize you are in the wrong but refuse to admit it. Keep it up, you are only minimizing yourself further and further.
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No actually society agrees with me, that's why we have the laws in place like we do. Your railing against them in circular discussions calling people liars minimizes yourself if that's even possible from your starting position.
 
lotus503 said:
No actually society agrees with me, that's why we have the laws in place like we do. Your railing against them in circular discussions calling people liars minimizes yourself if that's even possible from your starting position.
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Society also agrees gay marriage should not be allowed. At one point, society also agreed blacks should be slaves.

You fail to show circular reasoning, which is your claim. It is something you do when you cannot argue a point and want to bail on it. You would be better served to just ignore it and move on.

When a person basically says "I support A" and then says "A is stupid, I do not support it", they have lied at least once. You know this, but pretend it is circular reasoning so you can bail.
 
lotus503 said:
What even more comical is the argument coming from the personal responsibility crowd.
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Personal responsibility says no abortions unless the life of the mother is at stake. Most abortions are done because the women simply does not want to be a parent for various reasons.

Saying a women can decide to not be a parent but that a man has to be a parent regardless of his desires is sexual discrimination. Only sexists believe it is fine to hold a double standard.
 
Atreus21 said:
Well, it's better than killing the child. Again, no disrespect (because this is going to sound nasty), but would you have preferred that your daughter aborted your grandchild?
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As I stated, It was her choice and I let her make it and would have supported her even if she chose an abortion. She didn't and I was happy she didn't. Now we have an 8 year old that has seen her Dad 3 times in her life, and if it wasn't for me arranging it she would have never met or even seen him. He's never even been to our house even though he is in town frequently (his mother lives here).
 
cybrsage said:
Personal responsibility says no abortions unless the life of the mother is at stake. Most abortions are done because the women simply does not want to be a parent for various reasons.

Saying a women can decide to not be a parent but that a man has to be a parent regardless of his desires is sexual discrimination. Only sexists believe it is fine to hold a double standard.
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When the man can carry a child then you might have a point. since that is a biological impossibility, point not found.
 
cybrsage said:
Personal responsibility says no abortions unless the life of the mother is at stake. Most abortions are done because the women simply does not want to be a parent for various reasons.

Saying a women can decide to not be a parent but that a man has to be a parent regardless of his desires is sexual discrimination. Only sexists believe it is fine to hold a double standard.
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i agree. but i do understand why it is done like that. is it fair? hell no. but what are the options? force the women to carry it because the father wants the baby?

its not a good situation.

i do know if my gf said she was pregnant but aborting it i would be pissed...
 
lotus503 said:
What even more comical is the argument coming from the personal responsibility crowd.
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nobodyknows said:
If you weren't such an idiot about the matter you would see it isn't about morals. It's about responsibility.
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(1) It would seem to me that the responsibility ship sailed with Roe v. Wade

(2) As per Roe v. Wade a fetus is not a child. A child only comes about when a woman CHOOSES to bear it to term. Her choice her responsibility. Personal responsibility is NOT about being responsible for other people's choices.
 
cybrsage said:
Personal responsibility says no abortions unless the life of the mother is at stake. Most abortions are done because the women simply does not want to be a parent for various reasons.

Saying a women can decide to not be a parent but that a man has to be a parent regardless of his desires is sexual discrimination. Only sexists believe it is fine to hold a double standard.
Click to expand...

The man doesn't have to be a parent he just had to provide financially for his offspring. Money does not = parenting
 
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