should i purchase an 720p, 1080i HDTV now or wait for 1080p sets?

Solodays

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Jun 26, 2003
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if one were desperate of getting an HDTV right now but knew most of hd sets don't support 1080p and dont want to spend 4-5K on current 1080p sets. would you recommend he/she to get it now or wait a year or so for 1080p's?

Although it supports 720p, i really dont want to miss out next gen movies and games that support 1080p.
 

AndyD2k

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Feb 3, 2003
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well, the question should be do you want to pay premium now for something that you won't be able to take advantage of for a while? Are there even any hd signals that support that resolution? for games, it won't be till ps3 is released which may not even happen till the end of next year.
 

kylebisme

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Mar 25, 2000
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As long as you get a TV with HDCP you won't miss out on anything next gen. You will have to watch 1080p content downsampled to 720p or interlaced at 1080i if you get a display with either as their native resolution respectively, but you won't really have to go without just because your TV doesn't support the full 1080p input.
 

Solodays

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Jun 26, 2003
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Yes, i want 1080p sets now so i can perpare for 1080p ps3 games and hd movies, but dont want to spend 5k on these sets. if i spend 2k on a hdtv now im gonna be stuck with 720p,1080i for atleast 5-6 years before buying a new tv. is there a huge difference of 1080p over 720p? if i wait a year of so, 1080p would probably be standard for all hdtv's and price will be affordable.
 

Solodays

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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
As long as you get a TV with HDCP you won't miss out on anything next gen. You will have to watch 1080p content downsampled to 720p or interlaced at 1080i if you get a display with either as their native resolution respectively, but you won't really have to go without just because your TV doesn't support the full 1080p input.

whats HDCP? 1080p downsimple to 720p, will the downsimple look better than 720p?
 
Mar 19, 2003
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Originally posted by: Solodays
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
As long as you get a TV with HDCP you won't miss out on anything next gen. You will have to watch 1080p content downsampled to 720p or interlaced at 1080i if you get a display with either as their native resolution respectively, but you won't really have to go without just because your TV doesn't support the full 1080p input.

whats HDCP? 1080p downsimple to 720p, will the downsimple look better than 720p?

HDCP = form of encryption for DVI/HDMI signals.
 

kylebisme

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Mar 25, 2000
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HDCP stands for high definitoin copy protection, you will need it for BlueRay movies to run in HD as well as newer HD cableboxs and the like.

As for 1080p downsampled to a 720p display, for movies and such it can look a little better than straight 720p content assuming the TV has good scaling hardware. For 3d stuff that is rendered at the output resolution, 1080p downsampled to 720p will always look notably better than rendering at 720p directly as with the former you effectivly get supersampling AA.
 

Solodays

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Jun 26, 2003
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?? so you're saying other hdtvs without hdcp can't handle blueray movies in hd?
 

kylebisme

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Well I have seen mention of a few peices of hardware designed to crack HDCP, but as far as legaly speaking yeah you will need HDCP to use BlueRay payers to watch movies with anything greater than a 480p output.
 

Sonikku

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Jun 23, 2005
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Originally posted by: Solodays
Yes, i want 1080p sets now so i can perpare for 1080p ps3 games and hd movies, but dont want to spend 5k on these sets. if i spend 2k on a hdtv now im gonna be stuck with 720p,1080i for atleast 5-6 years before buying a new tv. is there a huge difference of 1080p over 720p? if i wait a year of so, 1080p would probably be standard for all hdtv's and price will be affordable.

Most people cannot tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p. If you could, it would probably mean the screen size was 60" or bigger. I would not get 1080p for a better looking picture as much as I would get it for having a more versitile display. Outputting a desktop to a HDTV is possible with 1080i, but it is much easier when dealing with progressive resolutions. No need to worry about timings or what not. Also, don't be fooled by Sony's marketing. Their console is "capable" of 1080p but that hardly means many of their titles will support it.

The Xbox supported 1080i, but only about 5 titles out of it's entire collection ended up supporting that resolution. As a matter of fact Sony has not specified any "minimum" HD resolution so for all we know the vast majority of developers will only have their games outputting in 480i as to maximize the game engine. If anyone is thinking of buying a HD set now I would not worry too much about having a native 1080p display unless you wanted to run your PC through it.
 

Solodays

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Jun 26, 2003
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why do you need HDCP to run blueray movies? so you're saying when blueray and hddvd movies comes out million and millions of hdtv owner on this planet will be doomed without HDCP? will it still look great on non-hdcp hdtvs? thought blu-ray and hddvd are design in mind with current hdtvs. 720p,1080i and of course 1080p.
 

kylebisme

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Mar 25, 2000
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You will need HDCP becuase the MPAA wouldn't have it any other way. Without HDCP the HD movies won't look nearly as good as they won't be able to be output at HD resolutions. So yes I suppose you could say that millions of HDTV owners will be doomed.
 

JBDan

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Dec 7, 2004
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Originally posted by: Sonikku
Originally posted by: Solodays
Yes, i want 1080p sets now so i can perpare for 1080p ps3 games and hd movies, but dont want to spend 5k on these sets. if i spend 2k on a hdtv now im gonna be stuck with 720p,1080i for atleast 5-6 years before buying a new tv. is there a huge difference of 1080p over 720p? if i wait a year of so, 1080p would probably be standard for all hdtv's and price will be affordable.

Most people cannot tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p. If you could, it would probably mean the screen size was 60" or bigger. I would not get 1080p for a better looking picture as much as I would get it for having a more versitile display. Outputting a desktop to a HDTV is possible with 1080i, but it is much easier when dealing with progressive resolutions. No need to worry about timings or what not. Also, don't be fooled by Sony's marketing. Their console is "capable" of 1080p but that hardly means many of their titles will support it.

The Xbox supported 1080i, but only about 5 titles out of it's entire collection ended up supporting that resolution. As a matter of fact Sony has not specified any "minimum" HD resolution so for all we know the vast majority of developers will only have their games outputting in 480i as to maximize the game engine. If anyone is thinking of buying a HD set now I would not worry too much about having a native 1080p display unless you wanted to run your PC through it.

If you are watching a football game in 1080i vs. 1080p the difference in performance is very noticeable to many who are familiar with HD (those who jumped on 3 yrs ago like me). 1080p IMO is like pci express. It will all be there one day... why not get it?
 

Solodays

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Jun 26, 2003
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As a matter of fact Sony has not specified any "minimum" HD resolution so for all we know the vast majority of developers will only have their games outputting in 480i as to maximize the game engine.

that's the biggest boloney i've ever read.



Most people cannot tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p

wtf? you must be reffering to a 90 year old grandma then. as i was informed, 720p > 1080i.
 

JBDan

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Dec 7, 2004
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
You will need HDCP becuase the MPAA wouldn't have it any other way. Without HDCP the HD movies won't look nearly as good as they won't be able to be output at HD resolutions. So yes I suppose you could say that millions of HDTV owners will be doomed.

I have been out of the loop for 1 year, but HDCP (copyright) has nothing to do with the movies looking any different. When a HD HDCP satellite broadcast is sent to a HDTV and that TV does not have an HDCP capable DVI input, the screen is black. You cannot view the source. I thought this applied to any content from any source albeit Blueray/satellite/etc.. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Velk

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Jul 29, 2004
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Originally posted by: Sonikku
Originally posted by: Solodays
Yes, i want 1080p sets now so i can perpare for 1080p ps3 games and hd movies, but dont want to spend 5k on these sets. if i spend 2k on a hdtv now im gonna be stuck with 720p,1080i for atleast 5-6 years before buying a new tv. is there a huge difference of 1080p over 720p? if i wait a year of so, 1080p would probably be standard for all hdtv's and price will be affordable.

Most people cannot tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p. If you could, it would probably mean the screen size was 60" or bigger. I would not get 1080p for a better looking picture as much as I would get it for having a more versitile display.

I think you might be confusing things a bit - screen size doesn't have a bearing on the difference between 1080i and 1080p as the pictures are the same in both cases, 1080p is just effectively displaying at a higher framerate.

It's why some people prefer 720p to 1080i - less detailed picture, but faster updates.


 

Velk

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Jul 29, 2004
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Originally posted by: JBDan
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
You will need HDCP becuase the MPAA wouldn't have it any other way. Without HDCP the HD movies won't look nearly as good as they won't be able to be output at HD resolutions. So yes I suppose you could say that millions of HDTV owners will be doomed.

I have been out of the loop for 1 year, but HDCP (copyright) has nothing to do with the movies looking any different. When a HD HDCP satellite broadcast is sent to a HDTV and that TV does not have an HDCP capable DVI input, the screen is black. You cannot view the source. I thought this applied to any content from any source albeit Blueray/satellite/etc.. Correct me if I'm wrong.


The proposal from the blue-ray group is that blue-ray dvd players will only display HD if HDCP is detected, and will instead provide an image downscaled to 480p if connected to a non HDCP DVI connector.
 

kylebisme

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Mar 25, 2000
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Yeah, Velk, thanks. That is exactly what I was speaking of.

Originally posted by: Solodays
As a matter of fact Sony has not specified any "minimum" HD resolution so for all we know the vast majority of developers will only have their games outputting in 480i as to maximize the game engine.

that's the biggest boloney i've ever read.

What he sais is competely true, the 480i bit is highly unlikely but all the same it isn't boloney by any means


Originally posted by: Solodays
Most people cannot tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p

wtf? you must be reffering to a 90 year old grandma then. as i was informed, 720p > 1080i.
It isn't nearly that simple, and he is right that most people won't notice the difference between 1080i and 1080p.
 

JBDan

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Dec 7, 2004
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Originally posted by: Velk
Originally posted by: JBDan
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
You will need HDCP becuase the MPAA wouldn't have it any other way. Without HDCP the HD movies won't look nearly as good as they won't be able to be output at HD resolutions. So yes I suppose you could say that millions of HDTV owners will be doomed.

I have been out of the loop for 1 year, but HDCP (copyright) has nothing to do with the movies looking any different. When a HD HDCP satellite broadcast is sent to a HDTV and that TV does not have an HDCP capable DVI input, the screen is black. You cannot view the source. I thought this applied to any content from any source albeit Blueray/satellite/etc.. Correct me if I'm wrong.


The proposal from the blue-ray group is that blue-ray dvd players will only display HD if HDCP is detected, and will instead provide an image downscaled to 480p if connected to a non HDCP DVI connector.

Tx :)
 

Solodays

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Jun 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
You will need HDCP becuase the MPAA wouldn't have it any other way. Without HDCP the HD movies won't look nearly as good as they won't be able to be output at HD resolutions. So yes I suppose you could say that millions of HDTV owners will be doomed.

howcome i've never heard of this hdcp? this doesn't sound right, why would anyone be that stupid enough of releasing high quality movies and not look great on currents hdtv's? are you sure what yoou're talking about?
 

JBDan

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Dec 7, 2004
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Originally posted by: Velk
Originally posted by: Sonikku
Originally posted by: Solodays
Yes, i want 1080p sets now so i can perpare for 1080p ps3 games and hd movies, but dont want to spend 5k on these sets. if i spend 2k on a hdtv now im gonna be stuck with 720p,1080i for atleast 5-6 years before buying a new tv. is there a huge difference of 1080p over 720p? if i wait a year of so, 1080p would probably be standard for all hdtv's and price will be affordable.

Most people cannot tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p. If you could, it would probably mean the screen size was 60" or bigger. I would not get 1080p for a better looking picture as much as I would get it for having a more versitile display.

I think you might be confusing things a bit - screen size doesn't have a bearing on the difference between 1080i and 1080p as the pictures are the same in both cases, 1080p is just effectively displaying at a higher framerate.

It's why some people prefer 720p to 1080i - less detailed picture, but faster updates.

Sports/Action Movies > 720p
Discovery/still images >1080i
Best of both worlds >1080p
 

Solodays

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Jun 26, 2003
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why is this hdcp apply in blu ray movies, and what about hd-dvd's? how can it survive if this is true? how exactly do these hdcp protect agaisnt privacy?
 

ZimZum

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Aug 2, 2001
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The first problem is, of course, that there is no 1080p/60 broadcasting standard. Of the 18 ATSC standards, the closest to 1080p/60 that you?ll get is 1080p/30, and while that?s often better than 1080i/30 it still doesn?t give broadcasters the ability to handle fast-motion content such as sports.

Furthermore, the likelihood of 1080p/60 becoming a broadcasting standard is about as great as the lovechild of Britney Spears and Kevin Federline penning the great American novel ? it ain?t gonna happen. Cable and satellite providers are already looking to compress the signal. They?re not about to pass twice the amount of data over those lines. And, without content, really what?s the point?

?Clearly he doesn?t understand that the PS3 will soon be pumping out 1080p,? you start to mutter under your breath as though I?m completely unaware of the situation. ?Two HDMI ports pumping out 1080p,? you continue. Great! To what are they pumping this information? Are they handing this data to Samsung?s 1080p DLP sets? Nope; they can?t. Until recently HDMI chips were unable to process 1080p/60 and while they?ve broken through those limitations, few (if any) sets actually include these new chips. It?s been rumored that Sony?s Qualia 1080p front-projector will start to include 1080p/60 HDMI technology. However, for those of us looking to spend less than thirty thousand dollars, this isn?t a great help.

?But that?s a short term view. These sets will eventually include those chips.? OK. Let?s move past the fact that nearly all of today?s 1080p sets won?t accept an, 1080p signal via HDMI. Will 1080p games really look much better than 720p games? Games, at their heart, are rendered and vector-based. Once you get to the point where lines are drawn without stair-stepping, added resolution is of marginal benefit. Yes, it?s possible that game developers could incorporate high-quality 1080p textures. Will they? It?s unlikely. They too are weighing all the options. Texture memory is a precious resource, and with 1080p customers so few and far between, it?s a smarter choice for game developers to use more medium-resolution textures than a smaller number of 1080p textures. The result? The difference in your viewing experience is likely to be slim.

?But the added resolution of a 1080p set makes everything look more film-like and that?s what I?m looking for.?

It?s possible that you?re special. It?s possible that you?ve got the eagle-eyes needed to detect individual pixels while watching HD content at proper viewing distances. Most people can?t. More often than not, pixel viewing problems are caused by the black border around individual pixels (i.e. the screen-door effect) not by the number of pixels.

Don?t get me wrong; all things being equal 1080p will be better than 720p. The problem? Things are rarely equal.

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000303057041/