should i get an i5 2500k or amd fx 8120 8 core??

[blckgrffn]

Now I understand why your advice in this thread is so terrible, have your fun.

:awe: Thank you. Your permission is very important to me.

TBH, I was hoping Uppsala or Petrosbruder (sorry if I butchered your names, guys) would be reading this thread and chime in. I know they are both running BD rigs, if not multiple ones, for the performance numbers w/regards to distributed computing.

We can be civil about things, you know. It's interesting how we end up arguing rather than debating, IMHO.

 

[VirtualLarry]

This. doesn't really matter what you do, the i2500k is the better choice.

Ignore Gigantopithecus.

I think that would be a mistake. He seems pretty reasoned about the whole thing.

With the MC deals, the FX 8120 is a really attractive proposition.

Also note that the i5 has lower platfrom cost as AM+3 motherboards (the ones you need for fx) are more expensive than the ones for i5 and also there is a lot less choice.

This is absolutely not true. For similar features, Socket 1155 boards are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive. Even with MC deals.

 

[Puppies04]

Being that you have no evidence of this I guess we should all just take your word for it? Remind me, what was it you were saying about baseless arguments again?

A majority of power users don't care about DC projects and the ones that do shouldn't go spending money on top end high power draw hardware if they're serious about it. Power draw and cost efficiency running a CPU at full load 24/7 should be of greater importance which is clearly an area BD fails.

oh but that's not fair those are overclocked numbers at load right? Stock:

Just as every other site depicts, twice the power draw for zero performance benefits. If you want the better product, spend the $40 extra bucks. No reason to settle for garbage just to save a few pennies on a product that will actually end up costing you more in power consumption.

While we are talking about this supposed "extra 40 bucks" the 2500K rig is going to cost you can we take into consideration the fact that higher rated PSU's cost more money. At least last time I checked they did....

I'm sorry but recommending the BD over the SB rig is just plain nonsense as far as im concerned. Unless the OP can show us that 90%+ of his work is going to be heavily multithreaded he would be a lot better off with intels offering. The arguement for this only gets stronger when OCing is taken into consideration and I would question why he is even looking at the 2500K if he isn't going to OC.

Sorry in advance to all the AMD advocates out there, I have no problem with AMD as a company and wouldn't think twice about recommending an AMD based setup if the performance was there but it just isn't.

As for all the "2500k circle jerk" and "intel fan boy" comments I'm sorry some people feel that way but the numbers speak for themselves...

 

[Chiropteran]

i5 has:
- Lower power consumption under load, they are both similar at idle
- Better upgrade options with ivy bridge
- Better overclocking capabilities
- Integrated GPU, this is far more useful than people give it credit for, your discrete one breaks or you sell it, then use the integrated one in the mean time With the 8120 you havent got that option

Yes but the FX-8120 has:
- a metal tin
-comes with a FREE motherboard (buy it at Microcenter or you are stupid)
- better upgrade options via piledriver
- superior overclocking capabilities*
- better room-heating characteristics for the cold months
- integrated 4 more cores, this is more useful than people give it credit for, if your first 4 FX-8120 cores break you still have a usable CPU but if 4 cores break on your 2500 you haven't got that option

All that, and you just lose out on a little bit of single-threaded performance. But every single threaded game in existence is GPU limited anyway. you would be an idiot to spend tons of extra money on a CPU just to gain 5-10 fps when you could have spent that money on a video card instead and gained 40+ fps.

(please note this is not a serious reply, but when I see so many people arguing based on subjective opinions instead of facts I just have to jump in and do my part)

While we are talking about this supposed "extra 40 bucks" the 2500K rig is going to cost you can we take into consideration the fact that higher rated PSU's cost more money. At least last time I checked they did....

I'm sorry but recommending the BD over the SB rig is just plain nonsense as far as im concerned. Unless the OP can show us that 90%+ of his work is going to be heavily multithreaded he would be a lot better off with intels offering.

Ah, more brilliance.

Let me see if I get what you are saying.

Bulldozer uses more power (multithreaded programs that push all 8 cores), so it's going to cost more because you need to buy a better power supply. BUT the buyer won't run any (multithreaded programs that push all 8 cores) so bulldozer isn't going to have good performance either.

I think you might have a future as a united states Senator, but among us regular people who try to make sense when we talk could you please explain how bulldozer can simultaneously use the power of 8 threads while only ever pushing single threaded software?

 

[blckgrffn]

Yes but the FX-8120 has:
- a metal tin
-comes with a FREE motherboard (buy it at Microcenter or you are stupid)
- better upgrade options via piledriver
- superior overclocking capabilities*
- better room-heating characteristics for the cold months
- integrated 4 more cores, this is more useful than people give it credit for, if your first 4 FX-8120 cores break you still have a usable CPU but if 4 cores break on your 2500 you haven't got that option

All that, and you just lose out on a little bit of single-threaded performance. But every single threaded game in existence is GPU limited anyway. you would be an idiot to spend tons of extra money on a CPU just to gain 5-10 fps when you could have spent that money on a video card instead and gained 40+ fps.

(please note this is not a serious reply, but when I see so many people arguing based on subjective options instead of facts I just have to jump in and do my part)

:awe:

Well done

Gotta get me one of those tins... put it up with my white Coke cans... neither can be opened, of course...

 

[fixbsod]

Better upgrade options via PD?? SB is upgradable to IB which will be better than PD.

The $40 savings (or whatever it came to be) will be blown on your electric bill in 1 yr.


>>Yes but the FX-8120 has:
- a metal tin
-comes with a FREE motherboard (buy it at Microcenter or you are stupid)
- better upgrade options via piledriver
- superior overclocking capabilities*
- better room-heating characteristics for the cold months
- integrated 4 more cores, this is more useful than people give it credit for, if your first 4 FX-8120 cores break you still have a usable CPU but if 4 cores break on your 2500 you haven't got that option

 

[pelov]

This is absolutely not true. For similar features, Socket 1155 boards are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive. Even with MC deals.

While the Intel boards (Z68) are more expensive they also offer more. You have some that are PCIE3.0 ready and then there's Lucid support, Intel's SRT, Sandy-based graphics, and more. Basically, you're actually getting new chipset features.

This isn't to say the AM3+ boards are bad, but the chipset is in essence just a rehashed chipset. With AM3+ motherboards you generally get more 6GB/Sata ports and better PCIE 2.0 bandwidth/lanes. Outside of those two perks you don't get any new features but that's why it's cheaper.

The issue of motherboard price isn't just what costs less but what you're getting for the money, and the AMD boards are cheaper because you're not getting much on the chipset side. It's just an 8xx motherboard with SLi support =(

 

[blckgrffn]

While the Intel boards (Z68) are more expensive they also offer more. You have some that are PCIE3.0 ready and then there's Lucid support, Intel's SRT, Sandy-based graphics, and more. Basically, you're actually getting new chipset features.

This isn't to say the AM3+ boards are bad, but the chipset is in essence just a rehashed chipset. With AM3+ motherboards you generally get more 6GB/Sata ports and better PCIE 2.0 bandwidth/lanes. Outside of those two perks you don't get any new features but that's why it's cheaper.

The issue of motherboard price isn't just what costs less but what you're getting for the money, and the AMD boards are cheaper because you're not getting much on the chipset side. It's just an 8xx motherboard with SLi support =(

I think the construction of the boards is important too. If we narrowly focus on Microcenter, you get good boards for free with a $200 processor. To "step up" to that general quality of board, you have a $60 Asus option and then things get much more expensive.

You have a valid point on the IGP and SRT tech, though.

 

[Blue Shift]

The OP never even responded to say what he was planning to do with the system. Troll?

 

[blckgrffn]

The OP never even responded to say what he was planning to do with the system. Troll?

That is what I was trying to hint at, evidently you are the only other person so far to think so?

Looks like he had a chuckle at our expense. This is several minutes of my life I cannot get back and surely lifelong enemies have been made

 

[beginner99]

Because the data speak for themselves. The i5-2500K is not that much faster than the 8120 in single-threaded applications, the two trade blows through most benchmarks, and the 8120 isn't that much faster in multi-threaded apps and workflows. As I said, aside from power consumption, the 8120 is not a completely inferior CPU.

Again, as I said, if you live near a Microcenter, right now you can get an 8120 + a nicer board for $200. A 2500K + a nicer board are going to set you back at least $250-300 depending on what sales you can get. That's a cost increase of 25-50%. The 2500K is not 25-50% faster.

Many of this forum's posters need to put the Kool-aid down. If you can't interpret benchmarks, then you're just bleating like sheep.

Well one can argue that you can wait for a deal on 2500k. If you compare on price then you can't compare one with rebate and the other without.

I do see what you mean, that in reality most people would no notice a difference between the too or at least not a huge one. Still more 50$ is not much at all and well worth it. You will probably save more just on power assuming you use the chips for 2-3 years not to mention you get a better chip.

And if money is that critical you can buy cheapst i5 with a h61 board and spend like 100$ less than on a 8120 while still having better single- up to "4-thread performance". (at least here thats the case).

 

[Puppies04]

Bulldozer uses more power (multithreaded programs that push all 8 cores), so it's going to cost more because you need to buy a better power supply. BUT the buyer won't run any (multithreaded programs that push all 8 cores) so bulldozer isn't going to have good performance either. I think you might have a future as a united states Senator, but among us regular people who try to make sense when we talk could you please explain how bulldozer can simultaneously use the power of 8 threads while only ever pushing single threaded software?

You sir are the one who should be a politician, you just took what I said and drew a completly stupid conclusion from it. At no point did I say the OP would never run a multithreaded application. What I actually said was that to make BD look even remotely like a good choice compared to the 2500K he would have to fully utilise BDs 8 cores (if people insist on calling it 8 core) to make up for its relativly poor single threaded performance.

What I was actually pointing out (and I think you really must have some kind of agenda here to twist a quite simple point) was that in any single threaded cpu dependant application the intel offering will be a lot faster and draw less power, in any mildly threaded cpu dependant application the intel rig will still be a lot faster and draw less power and in some very highly threaded applications the intel rig will be slighly slower while drawing a hell of a lot less power.

So to summarize, basically this...

Unless the OP can show us that 90%+ of his work is going to be heavily multithreaded he would be a lot better off with intels offering.

While keeping in mind to get this performance boost in a very select number of applications he will need a PSU with roughly 100W more peak power rating and be prepared to take a hit in any other application aswell.

 

[Rvenger]

:awe:

Well done

Gotta get me one of those tins... put it up with my white Coke cans... neither can be opened, of course...

My FX6100 Black Edition in a white box will be on my doorstep when I get home :awe:

 

[blckgrffn]

My FX6100 Black Edition in a white box will be on my doorstep when I get home :awe:

OH MAN. :awe:



I am looking forward to seeing how that guy compares. You will have to open the box and ruin the collectors value, of course.

 

[Abwx]

In case of future upgrade the FX is more future proof , and if no
upgrade is expected then the FX is also more future proof....

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0375765 (8120 FX, $199.99)

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0375772 (Gigabyte 970 UD3 board, $.01 when in the cart with 8120)

$200 Total.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0354589 (2500k, $179.99)

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0371775 (ASUS Z68 board, $59.99)

~$240 Total.

Price difference: 20%

Move up to a Gigabyte UD3 LGA 1155 board for parity:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0366193 ($100 AMIR)

$280 Total.

Difference: 40%

It's not according to me. It's reality. Supposedly NCIX will PM this for you online as well, I haven't tried that, mostly because I just go to MC.

Thank you for avoiding the argument completely and focusing on something irrelevant. I already took the price given as granted; it's not part of what I'm arguing.

 

[blckgrffn]

Thank you for avoiding the argument completely and focusing on something irrelevant. I already took the price given as granted; it's not part of what I'm arguing.

That's not how I read what you had written. Had you written more concisely I would not have bothered.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Or, you could spend two minutes going over into our own subforum, right here, and take a look "and find your evidence of this." I am waiting for the actual numbers too. I only mentioned it because I thought it was pertinent, know that plenty of folks who look at this subforum frequent that one as well, and they don't really seem to care about 50W.

I guess we better tell all those folks crunching/folding on nehalems, etc. that they should just stop because they aren't running the most optimal setups.

That's not to say that I don't care about power consumption, I am actually planning a 2500k upgrade for my i3 ESXi box just for the DC goodness.



What did I say? Remind me.



FTFY.

As for what the OP intends to do, I guess we don't know. Poke at us?

In the end, the constant 2500k recommendation gets boring. No question it is a pretty awesome CPU.

Saying that BD is a pile of worthless dung might be fun, but if anyone recommended a Thuban in the year that Sandy Bridge has been out, reality is that BD isn't much different and now the prices are even reaching parity.

***

Perhaps I need second account so I can post one line OPs so that I can threads to read? This subforum gets a little slow some days

So your argument is that people should buy Bulldozer because Sandy Bridge gets recommended more often because it's better? How does that even make sense from an unbiased point of view?

If you buy inferior products that cost the same or similar, you're a bad consumer. Buying an 8120 instead of a 2500K, in the vast majority of occasions, means you're buying an inferior product AND you're rewarding AMD for their bad efforts/lazy engineering.

If you want to support good AMD products buy their GPUs or APUs instead.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Bulldozer for some people just might be appealing,maybe something a bit different for those wanting to escape the socket changes intel does every 2 years it seems like with possible socket longevity.

Power consumption i have realized is high but 240w for 8 3.8ghz cores versus 146w for 4 3.3ghz cores i think most people should expect this as the 8150 simply isn't a quad core its a amd high end 8 core part.

People should really compare the i7 3960x's power consumption directly to the 8150 for shits and giggles and pull power numbers based off a core basis basically meaning the 8150 pulls 30w per core while a 2500k pulls 36w per core.

Not a fanboy but i thought i would put that out there all coming from a 2500k owner

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

That's not how I read what you had written. Had you written more concisely I would not have bothered.

Explain how it does not justify the cost gap.

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[blckgrffn]

So your argument is that people should buy Bulldozer because Sandy Bridge gets recommended more often because it's better? How does that even make sense from an unbiased point of view?

If you buy inferior products that cost the same or similar, you're a bad consumer. Buying an 8120 instead of a 2500K, in the vast majority of occasions, means you're buying an inferior product AND you're rewarding AMD for their bad efforts/lazy engineering.

If you want to support good AMD products buy their GPUs or APUs instead.

Nope, that's not my "argument" at all.

At a certain price point, BD can be legitimately considered. Anyone who bought an AMD processor in the last year or so can continue to get the same basic performance for the same price. This is true of SB as well. You even get a few nifty instructions thrown in.

Evidently everyone, EVER, that built a Thuban rig was a POOR CONSUMER and needs a frontal lobotomy so that they won't influence the market with their stupid decision making. Ditto for just about any AMD purchase in the last year to two years.

To your point, the 8120 and the 2500k do not "cost the same." Hence all those links I posted and you efficiently ignored. If $50 is irrelevant, I don't know why sites like slickdeals exist. Clearly money is important to someone.

Before you throw that "save it in power" comment out there, that's only true for people who are using their computer @ 100% for an extremely extended amount of time. For most it will be insignificant - or, and get this - an improvement over buying a Phenom 2 now because idle power is so much better. To those who say it would need a bigger PSU, if we are only talking about basic CPU needs here then you are likely buying a ~400W power supply minimum, right? So you don't need a bigger one for BD. If you are going to be rocking some big GPUs, they'll need their own power budget in a hurry anyway.

Believe it or not, I am not drooling on my keyboard OR bleeding from my ears when I type that.

And, FWIW, I think LLano on the desktop is joke at this point (at its current price point, again, let's talk again when the A8 is well below $100 or if Trinity rocks). So no, I won't endorse that as a "successful" product. In laptops? Sure.

There has to be a price point where 8xxx FX gets interesting for you, doesn't there? Ignoring that isn't good consumer practice either or we'll all be paying Apple markups for everything? So if the 8120 was $100? (which effectively is with this MC deal...) $50? Free? We should be able to find some common ground here...

 

[blckgrffn]

Seems pretty clear to me.

It was the "according to you part" that I had bolded in my response that I was referring to. I read it as challenging the validity of the price points I had asserted.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Bulldozer for some people just might be appealing,maybe something a bit different for those wanting to escape the socket changes intel does every 2 years it seems like with possible socket longevity.

AMD will change sockets every two-three years, too. AM3+ will be used for Piledriver and that's it; that's the product that should "compete" with Ivy Bridge. If you look at it, you'll see LGA 1155 was introduced in January 2011 and it won't be replaced until March-April 2013 when LGA 1150 and Haswell come out. That's 26-27 months for LGA 1155 in the market, which is usual and nothing to landblast whiste Intel with. AM3+ was introduced in June 2011, IIRC, and Zambezi and Piledriver will support it. Piledriver will be here probably until Q4 2013 or so. That's around 30 months. Not a big difference by any means.

Power consumption i have realized is high but 240w for 8 3.8ghz cores versus 146w for 4 3.3ghz cores i think most people should expect this as the 8150 simply isn't a quad core its a amd high end 8 core part.

Regardless of whether you consider it an eight-core (eight integer core) or a quad-core (4 FPUs), it doesn't change the fact that it consumes an obscene amount of power, especially given its sluggish performance in comparison to Sandy Bridge.

People should really compare the i7 3960x's power consumption directly to the 8150 for shits and giggles and pull power numbers based off a core basis basically meaning the 8150 pulls 30w per core while a 2500k pulls 36w per core.

Umm, why? That's not what it's competing against. Sandy Bridge-E Six-Cores bitch slap Bulldozer left and right. It isn't relevant if Bulldozer has X quantity of cores. The problem is it consumes too much power relative to its competition and that's that.

And if you still want to make an argument regarding that, then remember that the 3930K and 3960X both consume less power than the FX-8120/8150.

Not a fanboy but i thought i would put that out there all coming from a 2500k owner

My arguments are in bold.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

It was the "according to you part" that I had bolded in my response that I was referring to. I read it as challenging the validity of the price points I had asserted.

Um, why? If I was I wouldn't have asked you to explain how it didn't justify the price difference.

 

[blckgrffn]

Um, why? If I was I wouldn't have asked you to explain how it didn't justify the price difference.

It's the Internet and empathy is hard to use across a forum board? If it wasn't in the air, why the "according to you?" *shrug* You asked, I answered. As I said, had that little barb been absent I wouldn't have replied that way.