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Question Should I finally make the switch to AMD?

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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
50,784
6,262
126
My position is based on recent precedence. Miss a firesale like the 9900K or Zen+, and you could be stuck waiting along time to get another great deal. 10th gen Intel has been hitting firesale pricing, has the cores and threads to age well, and they won't last forever.
As a (sort of - if I had customers) system-builder, it's kind of like "Catch as catch can" as far as finding affordable parts. I'm already seeing the deals on 10th-Gen starting to dry up. Been eyeing some stock-piles of G6400 Pentium Gold CPUs, as they are literally about the cheapest acceptable CPUs for Fortnite and web browsing.
 
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eek2121

Senior member
Aug 2, 2005
811
903
136
Buying a new generation of RAM when it first comes out has never ended well. I don't expect that to change.
Yeah, people always try to warn others not to buy previous gen RAM every generation. They end up being wrong every generation. Compare DDR4 when it first came out to DDR3 when DDR4 first came out. Which was faster? Which had better latency? DDR3...and guess what, those boards/CPUs that implemented DDR4 in the early days could not take advantage of current DDR4 offerings. The same goes all the way back through SDRAM speeds.
 

killster1

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
5,841
359
126
I yolo’d the rig in my sig when the pandemic hit because I thought everything could get gnarly. No ragrets ;)

All sorts of stuff could be in the cards for imports.

I won’t begrudge anyone the smallest of upgrades atm.
yup maybe America will stop being the largest free market in the world? /giggles

wonder if the cards on etsy.com are scams? see LOADS Of cards 3080 3090 800-900$.. people spent how much on 2080ti's?

no one needs to play games, paying a extra 100 or 2 isnt a big deal. Want to see shortages? try to buy a house or a gun ;) it will be fine by august with houses starting to be built next dec.

id say worst case scenario is people will have to buy a complete pc to get one with a good brand new gfx card.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,361
315
126
id say worst case scenario is people will have to buy a complete pc to get one with a good brand new gfx card.
I think we have already gotten to that point. I know one person that did this. Then I also saw that Jay2Cents also did a video recommending this. I'm not subscribed to him but I noticed it came up on my youtube feed.

In fact a friend of mine bought a prebuilt then he returned it because it has a Gigabyte 3080. The second one he ordered had an Asus card.

To be honest I actually don't mind recommending slightly overpaying for a prebuilt system compared to paying a scalper and fueling the system further.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
7,653
876
126
www.teamjuchems.com
Prebuilts are having huge delays right now - most are 30 days out and if you select a video card that isn’t the base 1650 Super/1660 you are looking at another 2-8 week delay. I think the best days of reasonable prices and lead times from SI’s for shucking are behind us for a while too. Maybe two months ago you could order a System Integrator system with a a 3090 for about $2,600. I am sure those people are maybe just now getting those PCs and those prices are gone. Add $1k easily now.

Trying to do this to get any Ampere card and you are *almost* paying eBay prices but if you don’t have a decent older card to flip with the chassis you are also stuck with a PC.

Seems like girding yourself to pay $1k for a 3060 or 6700xt via Facebook marketplace for a local pickup is about the most efficient way to go atm.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
7,653
876
126
www.teamjuchems.com
yup maybe America will stop being the largest free market in the world? /giggles

wonder if the cards on etsy.com are scams? see LOADS Of cards 3080 3090 800-900$.. people spent how much on 2080ti's?

no one needs to play games, paying a extra 100 or 2 isnt a big deal. Want to see shortages? try to buy a house or a gun ;) it will be fine by august with houses starting to be built next dec.

id say worst case scenario is people will have to buy a complete pc to get one with a good brand new gfx card.
Ha, I'll remind all those container ships how they are waiting in a giant parking lot called the Pacific Ocean to unload their cargo into the greatest free market economy in the world. That'll magically fix it! You think one of those planes that pulls a banner is the best way to let them know?

Those ships are carrying materials for all the industries, like the automotive industry that shut down for a week, etc. Appliances for those new homes. Wood pulp for your TP. You know, a variety of stuff.

If you think things are going to be perfect in a couple of months because everything was great pre-pandemic then you weren't paying attention prior to the pandemic. All the built up garbage that was present then has been exacerbated now.

Container costs have tripled from China (40' is up from ~$4,500 to over $14k now) AND availability is worse AND lead times are weeks longer - it is getting worse, not better. That is going to be felt in the prices of *everything*. Haha, you can order a container and then just not have it be there when your vendor gets to port with all your stuff. It's insane and terrible if you are in the industry.

But hey, it'll just sort itself out, right? Why bother pondering the potential for rolling shortages of consumer goods and potential inflation when considering purchases intended for the next 3-5 years?

I am not saying we should all build fallout bunkers. I am just saying that I respect both sides, I am an optimist. I think it's really going to get better and a year from now we can laugh about how dumb this all was. I can also appreciate anyone securing what they can get *now* because the potential for wild swings in pricing and availability in the future gives them pause.

Etsy seller here - Etsy buyer protection is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ compared to say eBay for example. Each seller sets their own store policies. Tons of the cards there are in Brazil, Serbia, Ukraine, etc. I have no idea how the warranty will work and if you are going to get with an import bill when you import them. Sounds like an adventure. You go first :D
 
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killster1

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
5,841
359
126
As a (sort of - if I had customers) system-builder, it's kind of like "Catch as catch can" as far as finding affordable parts. I'm already seeing the deals on 10th-Gen starting to dry up. Been eyeing some stock-piles of G6400 Pentium Gold CPUs, as they are literally about the cheapest acceptable CPUs for Fortnite and web browsing.
i bet you have 10 extra computers to sell right this second ;) i have at least 5 full pc's (3 desktops and 2 lappies i dont need or want 3600/x470/32gb with platinum psu's just lazy to sell much
Ha, I'll remind all those container ships how they are waiting in a giant parking lot called the Pacific Ocean to unload their cargo into the greatest free market economy in the world. That'll magically fix it! You think one of those planes that pulls a banner is the best way to let them know?

Those ships are carrying materials for all the industries, like the automotive industry that shut down for a week, etc. Appliances for those new homes. Wood pulp for your TP. You know, a variety of stuff.

If you think things are going to be perfect in a couple of months because everything was great pre-pandemic then you weren't paying attention prior to the pandemic. All the built up garbage that was present then has been exacerbated now.

Container costs have tripled from China (40' is up from ~$4,500 to over $14k now) AND availability is worse AND lead times are weeks longer - it is getting worse, not better. That is going to be felt in the prices of *everything*. Haha, you can order a container and then just not have it be there when your vendor gets to port with all your stuff. It's insane and terrible if you are in the industry.

But hey, it'll just sort itself out, right? Why bother pondering the potential for rolling shortages of consumer goods and potential inflation when considering purchases intended for the next 3-5 years?

I am not saying we should all build fallout bunkers. I am just saying that I respect both sides, I am an optimist. I think it's really going to get better and a year from now we can laugh about how dumb this all was. I can also appreciate anyone securing what they can get *now* because the potential for wild swings in pricing and availability in the future gives them pause.

Etsy seller here - Etsy buyer protection is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ compared to say eBay for example. Each seller sets their own store policies. Tons of the cards there are in Brazil, Serbia, Ukraine, etc. I have no idea how the warranty will work and if you are going to get with an import bill when you import them. Sounds like an adventure. You go first :D
The pacific ocean is a parking lot? toliet paper comes from China wood pulp?? Lolies.. it comes from Mexico and canada.. my point is America will always have massive amounts of product to choose from, used new etc etc, no need to panic to buy anything. Want to play games buy a ps5 or Xbox til gpu prices drop if you refuse to pay a little extra. Wait don't wait its not much different except the newest parts are usually more power efficient and faster. We all have failing 5000 amd chips so u go rush out to buy one too!!! Brilliant idea. Better buy a Lexus now maybe they stop impoting them this year... kekekekke
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,295
364
136
A few options, if you really want to upgrade:

BUT, these (CPU's) are not really upgrades when only looking at 4K gaming.

Get a 2x16GB DDR4 3200 or faster kit AND a nice 2TB PCIE4 Gen 4 NVME or go hog wild with a nice 4TB SATA SSD.

3700X
5600X
10700 non K, as it will perform like a 10700K when power limits are removed.


"In practically all of our tests, the Core i7-10700K is ahead by a super slim margin. At $387 for the 10700K compared to $335 for the 10700, the performance difference is not enough to warrant the $52 price difference between the two. Performance per dollar sides mostly with the Core i7-10700, although users getting the i7-10700K will likely look towards overclocking their processor to get the most out of it – that ultimately is what to pay for.

The other comparison point is with the Ryzen 5 5600X, which has two fewer cores but costs $299. In practically every test, the increased IPC of the Ryzen over Intel means that it sits identical with the Core i7 processors, AMD is cheaper on list price, and at a much lower power (AMD will peak around 76 W, compared to 215 W). AM4 motherboards are also abundant, while corresponding Intel motherboards are still expensive. The problem here however is that AMD is having such high demand for its product lines right now that finding one in stock might be difficult, and it probably won’t be at its recommended price.

Users in this price bracket have a tough choice – the more efficient AMD processor that might be in stock, compared to the Intel processor that will be in stock but more cooling will likely be required."

Use AT bench to compare and contrast, figure a budget and go from there.

Here is 9700K vs 10700 non K

 
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Nov 26, 2005
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Didn't read all the comments but the USB connectivity issue is still a problem for some people. This is a HUGE thing to consider. A common symptom is being seen before seeing an opponent in online gaming e.g. CS:GO which I've experienced. It only became apparent to me after I updated my Gaming rig X570 Xtreme bios to F33h that includes the USB connectivity patch.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/m2wqkf
I have a GTX 1070 and a Samsung 970 Pro, so no PCIe 4.0 devices, and I've always had C-States disabled on my gaming rig.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
7,653
876
126
www.teamjuchems.com
I loaded the fixed bios for this on sunday and my one device which was my corsair mouse that had this issue isn't a problem anymore so all clear here.
That's excellent to hear - I've got three Gigabyte B450 boards (including my Auros Elite) and they are all on AGESA ComboV2 1.2.0.1 yet, released about six days ago. I am waiting to .2 to update my rigs in preparations for some Zen 3 CPUs.

I think I need to do something like three updates to get to current on Gigabyte - one to get to the last before they made some big change, then a release after that to get to Zen 3 support then to current. Should be fun ;)

I normally only flash to fix current issues, but there has been a lot of firmware updates for AMD based boards compared to what I am used to in the past. I honestly think it's a good sign as it shows widespread use and obviously supporting so many CPUs with one chipset is going to need some updates.
 
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moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,017
1,808
126
The CPU situation is very good right now and we don't know how it will look "later". People have suggested not waiting and to buy now, and I fully agree given the volatility we are facing. We could face another shortage with CPUs. We just don't know. What I do know is there will be people kicking themselves for not buying a 10 core 10850K for $320 when they had the chance or 10700K for $250. I hope those people don't wait themselves into another supply issue that affects CPUs or they could be stuck with what they have for God knows how long. AMD supply should increase, but who knows. Intel usually has good volume, but with 10nm desktop parts, who knows. You can have 10 fast cores right now for $320ish. This we know.
 

fkoehler

Member
Feb 29, 2008
74
58
91
Anyone passing up on a 10850 for 320 or a 10700k for 250 regardless of pandemic or not is braindead, even if I prefer Zen 3...

One of the only times in recent American history where supply chain hiccups have hit, and First world problems like getting not a computer, but a FASTER one, or a FASTER GPU has so many people losing their sh*t.
And then we've got the folks who want to come off as smarter than the average bear who want to say 'I told you so...'.
More than likely, as we've seen with 5600/5800's already; anyone who wants a 5900+ will be able to get one at MSRP or better in the next couple months.
Also good chance GPU's will be returning just like CPU's.
As more states open up, spring and summer come around, the consoles have reached the majority of their sales targets, and people finally get to do stuff outside, one could argue there might be a boomerang affect coming that will see demand drop substantially.

But if someone has money burning a hole in their pocket, pick any rationale you want to justify your decision.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,361
315
126
The CPU situation is very good right now and we don't know how it will look "later". People have suggested not waiting and to buy now, and I fully agree given the volatility we are facing. We could face another shortage with CPUs. We just don't know. What I do know is there will be people kicking themselves for not buying a 10 core 10850K for $320 when they had the chance or 10700K for $250. I hope those people don't wait themselves into another supply issue that affects CPUs or they could be stuck with what they have for God knows how long. AMD supply should increase, but who knows. Intel usually has good volume, but with 10nm desktop parts, who knows. You can have 10 fast cores right now for $320ish. This we know.
Well I think you jinxed it! Microcenter now increased prices on the i9-9900k back to $349 from $249. The 10700k is $269 and the 10850k is now $349. I think these will slowly continue to go up.

Also MC had the 11900k at $614 and a couple days later changed it to $699.

Surprisingly the 10900k is still $400. I was searching for a 9900k to swap from my 8700k and then I can wait for 12th gen. I guess now I'll just stick with what I have.

I mainly didn't want to change boards and that $250 price was a steal. Weird that they changed the price when it was still out of stock since I've been watching the site a few weeks now.

As for GPU's, ha. With the rumored 3080Ti coming in at a paper price of $999 we know it will be at least $1200 retail which I think will drive demand more for the 3080.

A buddy of mine sold his used 3080 for $2200 on ebay last night. He's now cardless but he says he will just play xbox.
 
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Nov 26, 2005
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Yeah I was considering jumping in on the $619 'deal' for the 11900K just to compare the USB issue with AMD, I guess I could still do it with a Comet Lake.. the 10900kf is $379 hmm
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,295
364
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The CPU situation is very good right now and we don't know how it will look "later". People have suggested not waiting and to buy now, and I fully agree given the volatility we are facing. We could face another shortage with CPUs. We just don't know. What I do know is there will be people kicking themselves for not buying a 10 core 10850K for $320 when they had the chance or 10700K for $250. I hope those people don't wait themselves into another supply issue that affects CPUs or they could be stuck with what they have for God knows how long. AMD supply should increase, but who knows. Intel usually has good volume, but with 10nm desktop parts, who knows. You can have 10 fast cores right now for $320ish. This we know.
Intel costs less right now because they have an inferior chip compared to Zen3; the 10 series is a beefed up 8 series that is a beefed up 6 series, etc. This is just how they have to price because they never got to their 10nm.

So we don't have real competition for years, then AMD declares chip war with a $329 8c / 16t part, and everyone celebrated when Intel released 8700K and 9900K, but those were just reactionary products.

I still don't think Intel is that good of a deal right now, this is the same tech they have been selling for the past 5+ years.
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
748
351
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So, I've always used an Intel cpu and currently have the i7 9700k + Nvidia 3080 FE + 16GB ram on Asus Z390 E ROG STRIX mobo. I was thinking of upgrading cpu to fully compliment the 3080 for 4K gaming. I've read some great things about the AMD Ryzen 9 5900X but I know the new Intel Rocket Lakes are coming out tomorrow. You guys have any recommendations for cpu upgrade?
IMO I wouldn't even think of upgrade from 9700K, it is not worth it
tune your system, especially memory and uncore clock and memory timings
keep your system clean as much as you can without the bloatware that is now very popular, how can you justify the moar coarz
your 9700K won't push as high average fps as the newest systems, but min lows won;t be far away

Intel costs less right now because they have an inferior chip compared to Zen3; the 10 series is a beefed up 8 series that is a beefed up 6 series, etc. This is just how they have to price because they never got to their 10nm.

So we don't have real competition for years, then AMD declares chip war with a $329 8c / 16t part, and everyone celebrated when Intel released 8700K and 9900K, but those were just reactionary products.

I still don't think Intel is that good of a deal right now, this is the same tech they have been selling for the past 5+ years.
we are in time where even the basic mid range models are sufficient enough to provide top level experience for most of the customers
the diminishing returns of core count is here
for example i5 11400F with b560 board is a killer deal for 60Hz gamer
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
22,551
3,648
136
Someone linked this in another thread - https://wccftech.com/exclusive-demand-to-exceed-supply-for-intel-rocket-lake-due-to-substrate-shortage/

This is another example of why you should pull the trigger when the stars align. This affects more than just Intel. These are not hiccups, the analogy would be more like a seriously occluded airway. And the choking could go on for as long as 2 years according to some industry reports. The keep calm and carry on meme, is all well and good. But if you miss the window now-a-days, you may end up paying a significant premium for it. Opportunity cost can be a harsh mistress.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
22,551
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That being said, aaawave.com has i3-10100F CPUs for $108, and i5-10400F CPUs for $138 currently.
Hot deals for sure. It reads like Intel may devote the resources to the highest end CPUs. Which could mean when the budget friendly CPU supply dries up, they could end up like AMD. See the 3100, 3300x, and APU line up for examples.
 
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B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,295
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IMO I wouldn't even think of upgrade from 9700K, it is not worth it
tune your system, especially memory and uncore clock and memory timings
keep your system clean as much as you can without the bloatware that is now very popular, how can you justify the moar coarz
your 9700K won't push as high average fps as the newest systems, but min lows won;t be far away


we are in time where even the basic mid range models are sufficient enough to provide top level experience for most of the customers
the diminishing returns of core count is here
for example i5 11400F with b560 board is a killer deal for 60Hz gamer
That is a valid point, but then, I feel going Intel 11 series right now is just meh.

Even if a "budget' AM4 chip is the 1600 AF / 2600 / 3600 and it is slower, the platform is just better and has way more in socket upgrades; and if gaming at 60Hz, start with a 1600 AF, a decent B550 and a nice PCIE4 X4 NVME.

11 series has little compelling upgrade from 11400f due to the mess of the back-port.

In 6 - 12 months, when Zen3 has a fuller and more available product stack, going Intel will look like a knee jerk FOMO choice.
 
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zir_blazer

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2013
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That being said, aaawave.com has i3-10100F CPUs for $108, and i5-10400F CPUs for $138 currently.
Low end and no IGP... how much are you going to spend on a Video Card? With current GPU prices I doubt you can really build a budget non-gaming computer around these.
 

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