Should I even be considering a 250cc bike?

[MiataNC]

$10 vs $7/month for liability for an unmarried 23 year old (me) from progressive for a 600cc GSXR and a Ninja 250cc respectively.

Liability covers the damage you do to someone else. Plowing a 250 or a 600cc supersport into someone else will result in similar damage to whatever you hit. As far as insurance companies are concerned the bikes are "equal" in this respect.

Comp/Collision covers damage to the bike caused by you (or by someone else who is uninsured). Rates for comp/collision are based on how often a specific bike is wadded up resulting in a claim paid out by the insurance company.

Any rider with half a brain will carry comp/collision unless it is too expensive. I guarantee you will be quoted (or already were) a lot more for the GSXR than the Ninja 250 for comp/coll. Otherwise you would NOT be shopping for liability only and posting it here.

Insurance is not a good reason to not get a 600cc.

I used insurance as an example, because underwriters are not biased.

Insurance companies are like casinos. They know the odds, and the house always wins. When was the last time you saw an insurance company post net losses?

They charge more for supersports, because statistically they know that these bikes are more likely to be wadded up. A new rider should pay VERY close attention to the quoted rates on the bikes he/she is looking at.

 

[SithSolo1]

Recently I bought insurance for a Honda Rebel 250, it was $400 for the year. I'd guess a Ninja 250 would be within $100 of that. I probably over insured but thats my choice.

For the same coverage on most current 600-650cc(Ninja 650r, FZ6R) sport bikes I was looking at $2100+ for the year. For kicks I also did a quote on a Honda Shadow Phantom(750cc cruiser) and it was around $870.

While engine size to plays into the cost of insurance it would appear that the single largest factor is the type of bike you'll be riding.

 

[jlee]

Any rider with half a brain will carry comp/collision unless it is too expensive. I guarantee you will be quoted (or already were) a lot more for the GSXR than the Ninja 250 for comp/coll. Otherwise you would NOT be shopping for liability only and posting it here.

Eh, my bike cost me 500 bucks (maybe $1200-1300 when I was all done)...I'm happy carrying liability/med at $75/year.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Probably the best explanation that I've ever seen on why sportbikes are not beginner bikes.

http://www.beginnerbikers.org/showt...ls-Function-Sportbikes-are-Not-Beginner-Bikes

ZV

 

[JulesMaximus]

Probably the best explanation that I've ever seen on why sportbikes are not beginner bikes.

http://www.beginnerbikers.org/showt...ls-Function-Sportbikes-are-Not-Beginner-Bikes

ZV

:thumbsup: Everyone posting in this thread should read that article.

 

[RiDE]

We need an age/CC requirement like Europe does... so Yamaha will be forced to bring this bad boy over:

125CCs of fury producing an earth shattering 14.75 hp...

Even has Rossi's endorsement AND livery... what more can up and coming squids want? D:

 

[Zargon]

what a great link!


I'd love a 125cc SS. Especially in fiat yammy trim

 

[roguerower]

Probably the best explanation that I've ever seen on why sportbikes are not beginner bikes.

http://www.beginnerbikers.org/showt...ls-Function-Sportbikes-are-Not-Beginner-Bikes

ZV

Great article. Two thumbs up.

 

[Greenman]

So a guy riding a moped and another one claiming to have ridden a friends gixxer 600 once are telling me about riding bikes. Lol! You guys are noobs.

You're an idiot. There isn't any other explanation. A dangerous idiot at that.

 

[RockinZ28]

Probably the best explanation that I've ever seen on why sportbikes are not beginner bikes.

http://www.beginnerbikers.org/showt...ls-Function-Sportbikes-are-Not-Beginner-Bikes

ZV

Yar good article there. I've been toying with the idea of getting a motorcycle, and definitely always knew I'd start with something like a Ninja 250 if I did. I've never been on a bike, so it's a no brainer for me to start small.

It took me a long time to perfectly learn and be able to handle my stock 2001 z28, now I have a Trans Am as well with about 450bhp and believe I'm mature and skilled enough for it, but I know a bike is completely different.

Had a friend/co-worker 3 years back start off on a new 600cc; he put it down on the street a couple times and jacked up his ankle a bit. He had been trying to sell it for months after and said it scared him too much, never rode it again, at least up until I lost contact with him when I quit the job.

Anyway, OP probably knows it's best to start on a 250, but is justifying why he should just go straight to the 600. It's your choice man, but hope you don't make a decision that you'll regret for life, or what may be left of it if you're wrong .

 

[halik]

what a great link!


I'd love a 125cc SS. Especially in fiat yammy trim

I think you can find Aprilia rs125 if you look hard

 

[simonizor]

You mean to say the 600 didn't throw you off unexpectantly when it decided to rev itself to 140mph doing a wheelie in all 6 gears.

You are obviously an idiot who has zero sport bike riding experience what-so-ever, if any riding experience at all.

I've never even slightly lifted my front tire off of the ground since I've been riding my RF600R.

 

[madeuce]

I started off riding street on an 09 Ninja 650r. Not as much power as a supersport and the power is very linear as you rev. No sudden surprises hitting a powerband. That said it still had a decent amount of power and it wasn't something I got bored of quick.

After riding that for a season I traded it in and got an 09 ZX6R Ninja. The handling of the 600 can not be beat. It's insane how much more comfortable I am corning with it. On the downside it is a 4 cylinder bike so the torque curve isn't as linear. It's not so powerful that it brings the front end up on it's own though. (5,600' above sea level)

I would have no problems recommending either of those bikes to a new rider. I would say that you'll probably be more comfortable with a 2 cylinder bike vs a 4.

If you want to get a 250 more power to you, but if you are looking at sport bike you are going to be underwhelmed IMO.


EDIT: I'm 6'3" 210lbs. If you weigh a buck o' five soaking wet and live at sea level any of the mentioned bikes are going to go a lot quicker with you on it.

 

[madeuce]

If he wants to get a 250cc and learn to ride I'm fine with that. But he's gonna lose some money reselling it. I'm guessing within 2 months he'll be tired of it and be ready for a 600. I'm suggesting getting a clean 1998-2000 600cc sportbike for around $3000. They had about 85-90 horses back then and should be docile enough for a beginner. If he drops it then it's not too bad cause it's an old bike.

Everyone seems to be giving this guy shit, but the post above makes a lot of sense, you can probably pick up a used one cheaper than that for those years, and if you drop it no biggie. You can buy a used 250 as well, but again you're going to be underwhelmed IMO.

Safety is paramount, but if you are going to get yourself hurt on a bike, you are going to get yourself hurt on a bike.

I've ridden dirt for 15+ years, street for a couple years and the most dangerous bike I've ever been on was one of those little pocket rockets and it would only go 50MPH

 

[Zenmervolt]

Everyone seems to be giving this guy shit, but the post above makes a lot of sense, you can probably pick up a used one cheaper than that for those years, and if you drop it no biggie. You can buy a used 250 as well, but again you're going to be underwhelmed IMO.

If that post, "makes a lot of sense" then you're a squid. It's flat irresponsible to recommend a supersport (which is what the 600cc bikes are) to someone who has never ridden a motorcycle before in his life. Read the link and figure out why.

Jesus H. Christ on an effing pogo stick, why is it that so many supposedly experienced riders are too goddamn stupid to understand that new riders don't have the skills to deal with a race bike?

Safety is paramount, but if you are going to get yourself hurt on a bike, you are going to get yourself hurt on a bike.

Bullshit. While injury from intentionally overcooking it or simple lack of attention to the road is certainly possible on any bike, the simple fact of the matter is that some bikes are more forgiving than others. A 600cc supersport is not tolerant of a beginner's mistakes and will compound them rather than ameliorate them. Grabbing a little too much throttle or brake on a 40 hp machine is surprising but recoverable for a novice; doing the same on an 85+ hp machine is too often not recoverable.

If you cannot recognize the fact that 600cc supersports are nowhere near forgiving of the common novice mistakes then that's a pretty significant indictment of your abilities as a rider.

I've ridden dirt for 15+ years, street for a couple years and the most dangerous bike I've ever been on was one of those little pocket rockets and it would only go 50MPH

So you had 13+ years of experience on dirt, learning how to control skids and slides, how to ride through gravel, how to manage the throttle in low-traction turns before you started on a street bike, and you think that this is somehow comparable to the OP's situation where he's never ridden a motorcycle or dirtbike before in his entire life? That's simply absurd. You were a reasonably experienced rider when you started out on your 650, the OP has no riding history at all. Not even close to the same situation.

ZV

 

[madeuce]

You need to get a clue. Full of trash talk but full of something else too...

600s are the best handling bikes on the road. They are going to be a lot more forgiving to any mistake other than throttle. They can also be better for some riders if they do get crazy with the throttle on accident. If you are sitting on a non-supersport bike, get too much throttle and the wheel hooks up you are going to be a lot more likely to go 12 o' clock than if you were leaning forward like a 600 supersport. At my elevation my bike will not power the front end up with me sitting in the correct position.

If you drop the clutch it isn't going to matter if you are on a 250 or a 1000, you just better have your foot over the rear brake.

I can't tell if you are timid or just inexperienced but thanks for the tips "mom".

 

[madeuce]

I had a talk with my optometrist who has been riding for 20+ years and he said that I may want to move to around a 600cc bike as a starter because I may outgrow the 250cc in a month or two... I've gotten the same advice from another friend as well. So GS600 or (there was one made by Suzuki, don't remember which)?

Contrary to popular belief even a bike that will push 225MPH can still be ridden slowly.

If you don't have any experience at all, take the motorcycle safety course and decide after that. They should provide you with a bike and you'll have a much better feel for what you are comfortable with.

 

[jlee]

Contrary to popular belief even a bike that will push 225MPH can still be ridden slowly.

If you don't have any experience at all, take the motorcycle safety course and decide after that. They should provide you with a bike and you'll have a much better feel for what you are comfortable with.

Speaking of MSF courses...if a 600cc supersport was such a fantastic beginner's bike, why do you not see them used in said courses?

 

[madeuce]

I reckon cost is a big factor I don't think you need fully adjustable suspension, steering dampener and slipper clutch.

After you finish your MSF you could even ask your instructor what they think. None of us have any clue how well you will ride but your instructor will have watched you ride.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

F1 cars are some of the best handling race cars in existence, so that should make them easy to drive right? Just ask Richard Hammond.

 

[Zenmervolt]

After you finish your MSF you could even ask your instructor what they think. None of us have any clue how well you will ride but your instructor will have watched you ride.

Actually, I know several instructors. Every single one of them recommends a 250cc bike for beginner riders, regardless of how well they do in the course. Some can be nudged into grudging acceptance of a 500, but I've yet to see the MSF instructor who recommended a 600 with an inline-4 to any novice.

Recommending a 600 to a novice is an idiot's idea, plain and simple.

ZV

 

[Fenixgoon]

OP, stick to the 250-500cc class bikes. anything that is 600cc and sporty *will* get you into trouble, even on a small mistake.

i have a yamaha FZ6R. it uses a detuned, last-gen R6 (race bike) engine. i will tell you now, even though yamaha tamed the engine for new/newer riders, i would not recommend it to a beginner. the engine is still very rev happy. i gave a little too much throttle coming out from a start and the bike almost lept away from me. i held on, and in doing so grabbed the throttle (making it rev MORE). luckily i also grabbed the clutch, which meant those extra revs weren't doing anything. this is a beginner mistake, and yes, i am a relatively new rider (had only a few hundred miles on my previous bike that i was rebuilding).

that was a very tiny mistake i made, solely because i was not focusing. had i not been lucky, i would have basically wrecked my bike.

so yes, 600cc bikes, even tamer ones, are poor choices. if you get a 250 or 500, there will always be someone willing to take it off of your hands if you choose to sell it.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Contrary to popular belief even a bike that will push 225MPH can still be ridden slowly.

If you don't have any experience at all, take the motorcycle safety course and decide after that. They should provide you with a bike and you'll have a much better feel for what you are comfortable with.

Who is this troll anyway? OFT's evil alter ego?

 

[SooperDave]

Fuzzy, check out http://www.bayarearidersforum.com

 

[halik]

You need to get a clue. Full of trash talk but full of something else too...

600s are the best handling bikes on the road. They are going to be a lot more forgiving to any mistake other than throttle. They can also be better for some riders if they do get crazy with the throttle on accident. If you are sitting on a non-supersport bike, get too much throttle and the wheel hooks up you are going to be a lot more likely to go 12 o' clock than if you were leaning forward like a 600 supersport. At my elevation my bike will not power the front end up with me sitting in the correct position.

If you drop the clutch it isn't going to matter if you are on a 250 or a 1000, you just better have your foot over the rear brake.

I can't tell if you are timid or just inexperienced but thanks for the tips "mom".

uhh huh....