Should I even be considering a 250cc bike?

[JulesMaximus]

You're making my argument for me. So he's used to grabbing a fist full of front brake on the 250. 2 months later he gets on the 600 and grabs a fist full of some dual rotor going 60 he's flying mid air over the bars.

You know, I've seen a lot of motorcycle accidents (thanks to youtube) but never seen anyone go over the handlebars, stunting not withstanding of course. No, most likely is he would lock the front wheel and the bike will slide out from under him.

A 250 is a smaller, lighter bike that is easier to handle, more forgiving all around and will allow the new rider to build experience and confidence faster. You can't just jump on a 600cc sport bike and after a few months be riding it like Valentino Rossi. A smaller bike is best because it allows the new rider to get to that level much sooner than if he or she had started out on a bigger bike. Frankly, I'd give the small bike 6 months of solid riding before going to a bigger bike.

 

[JulesMaximus]

You're making my argument for me. So he's used to grabbing a fist full of front brake on the 250. 2 months later he gets on the 600 and grabs a fist full of some dual rotor going 60 he's flying mid air over the bars.

And I repeat this is a 600cc bike. I'm not recommending a liter bike. There is a some room for error. I can't remember ever a 600cc coming up on me unintentionally.

How many of you actually ride sportbikes? Not sv650's or vrods. I'm talking modern Sportbikes.

I have ridden a friend's 2008 GSXR600, it's a great bike and I had no problem wringing the shit out of it either, but it's not a good bike for a beginner. I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to start my riding career on it.

Haha, found the thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=324886&highlight=gsxr600

BTW-The woman who owns the GSXR started out riding a Ninja 250 and rode that for about a year before she bought the Gixxer. Now she's doing track days and she is a damned good rider.

Found a good pic of her from her facebook page.

 

[Zargon]

There are very, very few non super-sport 600cc bikes. None that I can think of off the top of my head. Every current 600 from Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda, and Suzuki is a supersport.

Now, a 650, which is usually a cruiser, a standard, or a tourer is indeed different, but a 600 is almost universally a supersport (I say "almost" because there's probably some weird Korean or Russian brand with a 600cc cruiser out there that no-one's ever heard of). Even a 650 is a bad idea for a new rider though. "Only" 70 hp is far more than a new rider is ready to deal with.

ZV

yeah technically yamaha has the R6S, which it doesnt technically call a supersport anymore, but it was until 2004/5 when it was the regular R6, the kept making the same bike but demoted it.

for the rest you are spot on.


Kawasaki has a few 650cc parallel twin bikes

Suzuki has the SV650, gladius, the strom 650, and the GS500


but a new bike for a new rider is just silly. you are likely going to wreck/drop it and kill the value, and be stuck with it.

if someone wants a 600, they should probably get an older one like a FZR or an older ninja 600.

even the 500 I2 is a decent starter bike.


I would say the biggest reason I disagree with what OILFIELDTRASH is saying, is that atleast on the 250's, which are 100% competent, you can learn how to RIDE without worrying about the bike killing you as much. or worrying about dropping you 92 250 practicing slow speed manuvers, which no one wants to do to their lightly used 6000 dollar supersport

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

If he wants to get a 250cc and learn to ride I'm fine with that. But he's gonna lose some money reselling it. I'm guessing within 2 months he'll be tired of it and be ready for a 600. I'm suggesting getting a clean 1998-2000 600cc sportbike for around $3000. They had about 85-90 horses back then and should be docile enough for a beginner. If he drops it then it's not too bad cause it's an old bike.

 

[MiataNC]

Compare insurance rates for 600cc bikes against 250cc/500cc Ninjas.

Insurance companies/adjusters only care about 1 thing, and 1 thing only. How often they have to pay a claim.

There is a reason why 600cc/1000cc supersports cost so much to insure, and it is directly related to the fact newer riders cannot handle the "responsibility" of keeping your right wrist in check, or recover from control input mistakes.

Rationalize it all you want. Numbers don't lie.

 

[halik]

You're making my argument for me. So he's used to grabbing a fist full of front brake on the 250. 2 months later he gets on the 600 and grabs a fist full of some dual rotor going 60 he's flying mid air over the bars.

And I repeat this is a 600cc bike. I'm not recommending a liter bike. There is a some room for error. I can't remember ever a 600cc coming up on me unintentionally.

How many of you actually ride sportbikes? Not sv650's or vrods. I'm talking modern Sportbikes.

Regular Ninja has 1 disc up front with single sided caliper, nowhere near the crisp brakes you get with a modern supersport bike. You have a lot more room for fuck ups, same goes for the throttle (hit a bump and jerk the throttle and the 250 won't toss you).

I've owned several cbrs, one gixxer and most recently an R6 (brembos all around + SS lines = the shit).

 

[Silex]

i have ridden a friend's 2008 gsxr600, it's a great bike and i had no problem wringing the shit out of it either, but it's not a good bike for a beginner. I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to start my riding career on it.

Haha, found the thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=324886&highlight=gsxr600

btw-the woman who owns the gsxr started out riding a ninja 250 and rode that for about a year before she bought the gixxer. Now she's doing track days and she is a damned good rider.

Found a good pic of her from her facebook page.

more lean!

 

[Zenmervolt]

If he wants to get a 250cc and learn to ride I'm fine with that. But he's gonna lose some money reselling it.

Unless he buys new, he won't. A used 250R can easily be re-sold without a loss unless he bites it and damages the bike. This is true of just about any beginner bike. Spend $2,000 on a 250 in good shape, keep it in good shape, and you'll be able to sell it for what you paid even after a year or two.

I'm guessing within 2 months he'll be tired of it and be ready for a 600.

Even if he's Valentino Rossi or Nicky Hayden he's not going to be ready for a 600cc bike "within 2 months" of his first ever time on a motorcycle. Riding skills just flat don't develop that fast. In certain people, an arrogance about their riding skills can develop that fast, but that ain't skill.

I'm suggesting getting a clean 1998-2000 600cc sportbike for around $3000. They had about 85-90 horses back then and should be docile enough for a beginner. If he drops it then it's not too bad cause it's an old bike.

The first motorcycle I ever had was a 450cc Honda with 43 hp. It damn near threw me off the first time I got overconfident and grabbed a big handful of throttle in 1st gear. New riders do stupid things and no supersport is "docile" in any sense of the word. Pull that same mistake that I made in my first year or two on a 600 and you're laying the bike down instead of merely being very surprised.

Fuzzy: If you want to ride well, start out on a small bike and spend a couple years really learning control. Don't listen to the ego riders who piss on smaller bikes or the cocksure children who'll tell you that a 600cc sportbike is the way to go. I guarantee that you'll come out a better rider if you start on the 250 and learn how to control a bike first.

ZV

 

[halik]

more lean!

Less lean, more knee! She'll be on the frame sliders ...

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Conclusions from this thread:
A: A Honda Civic is a great car to learn how to drive in and will suit you just fine.
B: You'll get bored with a Civic, just go straight to a Ferrari 430.

You can pick yours.

 

[ayabe]

Conclusions from this thread:
A: A Honda Civic is a great car to learn how to drive in and will suit you just fine.
B: You'll get bored with a Civic, just go straight to a Ferrari 430.

You can pick yours.

Ha, I was thinking the same thing. The rationale being put forth is a little over the top; basically everyone should start with a Ferrari because if they drive a Civic it just doesn't compare and when they do move to a Ferrari it'll be too much to handle and they'll die. But if you somehow just learn on a Ferrari from the get-go, not only will you not get bored, but you will magically become a better driver because the car will kill you if you don't.

Or something.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Ha, I was thinking the same thing. The rationale being put forth is a little over the top; basically everyone should start with a Ferrari because if they drive a Civic it just doesn't compare and when they do move to a Ferrari it'll be too much to handle and they'll die. But if you somehow just learn on a Ferrari from the get-go, not only will you not get bored, but you will magically become a better driver because the car will kill you if you don't.

Or something.

I wouldn't expect you to understand. Riding on the back of your dad's Honda shadow doesn't qualify you for having riding experience on a crotch rocket.

 

[Fenixgoon]

start with the ninja250. even the tamer 600's will be able to get you into trouble quite quickly.

 

[Silex]

Less lean, more knee! She'll be on the frame sliders ...

Haha, well stated!

 

[theApp]

I don't have much to add, but those are the longest frame sliders I've ever seen.

 

[Greenman]

I wouldn't expect you to understand. Riding on the back of your dad's Honda shadow doesn't qualify you for having riding experience on a crotch rocket.

You said it, a crotch rocket. It's a RACE BIKE DIP SHIT! You don't put a novice rider on a race bike, it's stupid. You don't get to make mistakes on a bike, there are no second chances, you don't slam a car doing 35 and comment on how well the airbag worked, you break bones and leave skin on the street.

The squid mentality astounds me. Stupidity piled on stupidity, it's no wonder you clowns don't live as long as fruit fly's.

 

[Zargon]

I wouldn't expect you to understand. Riding on the back of your dad's Honda shadow doesn't qualify you for having riding experience on a crotch rocket.

I wouldn't put 90% of new riders on a newer 600SS. they are generally twitchy and aggressive

 

[waffleironhead]

You could always buy too much bike for yourself, then end up selling it for a loss after you drop it a couple of times.

 

[simonizor]

Depending on your size, a 250cc bike may be to small. If you're just going to be using the bike for commuting, you probably wouldn't be longing for something with more power, but if you're more than 140-150lbs, you more than likely won't be comfortable on something like a Ninja 250. If you are a smaller person, you'll be riding single for the most part, and you'll be using it for commuting quite a bit, a Ninja 250 could be a good bike for you.

My 1996 Suzuki RF600R is my very first street bike and I love it. I've been riding it since April, and I had absolutely no problem starting out with it. It's the perfect size and weight for me and my girlfriend to ride on. Sure, it can accelerate pretty fast if I want it to, but that doesn't mean that you have to give it full throttle all the time. I enjoy cruising at 60mph on my ride to and from work.

I have ridden before; I had a honda 70 when I was around 12. If you've never ridden before, find a friend with a dirt bike so you can drop it without hurting anything and go for a ride. Once you get it down, it's very simple to adjust to the throttle on any bike. After that, it's just a matter of adjusting to carrying around the extra weight that a 600cc bike gives you. The weight can actually be an advantage; once you get up to speed, it helps keep the bike steady a bit easier.

 

[ayabe]

I wouldn't expect you to understand. Riding on the back of your dad's Honda shadow doesn't qualify you for having riding experience on a crotch rocket.

Not sure how you got that impression, I ride a Vespa.

You're giving advice that is at odds with the majority of riders, have been called on it, and are now acting butthurt.

Not everyone has as fragile an ego as you and are perfectly happy riding a 250cc bike to start, they are a lot of fun actually.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Depending on your size, a 250cc bike may be to small. If you're just going to be using the bike for commuting, you probably wouldn't be longing for something with more power, but if you're more than 140-150lbs, you more than likely won't be comfortable on something like a Ninja 250. If you are a smaller person, you'll be riding single for the most part, and you'll be using it for commuting quite a bit, a Ninja 250 could be a good bike for you.

My 1996 Suzuki RF600R is my very first street bike and I love it. I've been riding it since April, and I had absolutely no problem starting out with it. It's the perfect size and weight for me and my girlfriend to ride on. Sure, it can accelerate pretty fast if I want it to, but that doesn't mean that you have to give it full throttle all the time. I enjoy cruising at 60mph on my ride to and from work.

I have ridden before; I had a honda 70 when I was around 12. If you've never ridden before, find a friend with a dirt bike so you can drop it without hurting anything and go for a ride. Once you get it down, it's very simple to adjust to the throttle on any bike. After that, it's just a matter of adjusting to carrying around the extra weight that a 600cc bike gives you. The weight can actually be an advantage; once you get up to speed, it helps keep the bike steady a bit easier.

You mean to say the 600 didn't throw you off unexpectantly when it decided to rev itself to 140mph doing a wheelie in all 6 gears.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Not sure how you got that impression, I ride a Vespa.

You're giving advice that is at odds with the majority of riders, have been called on it, and are now acting butthurt.

Not everyone has as fragile an ego as you and are perfectly happy riding a 250cc bike to start, they are a lot of fun actually.

So a guy riding a moped and another one claiming to have ridden a friends gixxer 600 once are telling me about riding bikes. Lol! You guys are noobs.

 

[soccerballtux]

Compare insurance rates for 600cc bikes against 250cc/500cc Ninjas.

Insurance companies/adjusters only care about 1 thing, and 1 thing only. How often they have to pay a claim.

There is a reason why 600cc/1000cc supersports cost so much to insure, and it is directly related to the fact newer riders cannot handle the "responsibility" of keeping your right wrist in check, or recover from control input mistakes.

Rationalize it all you want. Numbers don't lie.

$10 vs $7/month for liability for an unmarried 23 year old (me) from progressive for a 600cc GSXR and a Ninja 250cc respectively.

Insurance is not a good reason to not get a 600cc.

 

[halik]

$10 vs $7/month for liability for an unmarried 23 year old (me) from progressive for a 600cc GSXR and a Ninja 250cc respectively.

Insurance is not a good reason to not get a 600cc.

You'll see a huge difference on collision, my friends all paid 80-140 a mo for gixxers 600 and 750.

I've never had collision on mine before, but liability and comp ran about 30/mo on either the gix or the R6

Unrelated, but i have to reiterate: SS lines are the bomb.

 

[JulesMaximus]

So a guy riding a moped and another one claiming to have ridden a friends gixxer 600 once are telling me about riding bikes. Lol! You guys are noobs.

Oh, sorry...I didn't realize that the tens of thousands of miles riding experience I have didn't mean anything, that I had to actually own a gixxah vs just having ridden one to comment on it. And, FTR, I don't claim to have done things I haven't actually done.

Honestly, you give out some of the worst advice.