Should AT include OC'd Cards in Reviews?

[GaiaHunter]

It would be more fair if there were factory overclocked 6800s to compare to but there currently are none.

Paltry 913 MHz, but there is one.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-401-_-Product

 

[tviceman]

So then people should be advised to buy only the EVGA version and nothing else. Actually, why not just review only that one?

Because it's priced noticeably different than cards that use reference speeds and designs???

 

[psoomah]

On one hand, I don't think many conscientious buys would be "duped" by such a review including a heavily OCed part, as most of the people who care enough to come to a site like AT to read a thorough review such as this, is not likely to miss the rather prominent caveat in the article and profuse denunciation of NV's practices.

That's an ambitious assumption. My guess would be the majority of people looking to buy aren't all that conscientious and just skim the graphs of the review sites that pop up at the top of a googled, binged or yahooed entry.

Those are the people Nvidia is trying to roll, not the tech site forum regulars.

 

[happy medium]

So then people should be advised to buy only the EVGA version and nothing else. Actually, why not just review only that one?

The review clearly states EVGA gtx 460 FTW (OC).
WHat now you saying Anandtach readers cant read?
ARe you saying they should spell out FOR THE WIN?

COme on give it up, you guys are really grasping at staws here.

 

[mosox]

The gtx460 was NEVER 300$ ,it released at $229. Back then a 5850 with a good FACTORY overclock was $330, a full 100$ more. WHy on earth would you pit a factory overclocked 330$ 5850 vs a 229$ gtx460?

Sorry about that I was doing a mental calculus in $$ and in here they were really $300+. Actually they are almost $300 now (VAT and stuff and no price drop yet).

But I think you got the idea, here's a better example (checked the price range this time). Where are the HD 5850/5870 OC in this review? Where's the Sapphire Toxic? Where's the Asus Top? The XFX Black edition? The Gigabyte OC? Definitely in the GTX 470/480 price range.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/...x-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/12

So I must stick to my point. You don't compare even the Phenom II X4 overclocked with a stock Intel i-5, it's not fair even if the Phenom is cheaper.

Anand is a great site BTW.

 

[Grooveriding]

Ding ding ding ding we have a winner. I think Blastingcap is just upset that a factory overclocked gtx460, at a lower price than an hd6870, is trading blows with it in settings where at least one card is producing playable frame rates.

Yes the two do trade blows. As it stands now you have to buy a highly overclocked GTX 460 to get a card that can trade blows with the 6870.

Looks like an 800mhz and below 460 will not be a competitor. The EVGA FTW and 6870 are both priced the same on newegg @ $239, if you ignore the $10 rebate on the 460. Why is the FTW only in a TR model so you only get a 2year warranty instead of EVGA's usual lifetime ? Is it because the card is so highly overclocked ?

I bought one of each yesterday to see how they are, and not the FTW evga because it's overpriced in Canada @ $279 whereas the SC 763Mhz model is $220. Got one of those and an MSI 6870. I expect I'll prefer the 6870 but will wait to see.

Where AMD has hit the home run here is GTX 460 SLI was a very attractive solution up until this release. It was cheap and it was very fast. Crossfire scaling is so much improved in 6870 and 6850 that now Crossfire is scaling better than SLI.

So when looking at single card, it's a toss-up between a 6870 or 850+ OCed 460, but now in the dual-gpu landscape, 6870CF is the faster setup and a better choice for the same price. These judgments on single-gpu and dual-gpu are also before you put any overclock on the 6870(s) as well.

I don't think blastingcap is upset, these cards did what they had to do. Now someone looking at a 460 has a perfectly viable alternative in the 6870, a card that offers features that may appeal to the buyer they don't find in a 460, and AMD managed to soundly dethrone 460 SLI as the go-to budget multi-gpu setup.

 

[Idontcare]

Maybe it's just me, but if Anand took the time to respond and write a front page article about this issue, then it has merit.

You view that to be a matter of opinion or a matter of fact?

 

[GaiaHunter]

It just so happends this FTW edition is cheaper and faster then the 6870.
Thats the REAL problem hear!!!!!!!!

The proper wording is sometimes is faster.

Shame Starcrat doesn't have the FTW yet as it seem it might end slower there too.

And then is basically same speed in a bunch of the others and wins some.

Most of the time is just the same. I bet other games will give different wins and losses.

Let the fanboys cry. I think its ridiculous and has been made into a mountain from a molehill.

Ryan and Anand are such fanboys for believing they had to explain this action.

 

[Hard Ball]

That's an ambitious assumption. My guess would be the majority of people looking to buy aren't all that conscientious and just skim the graphs of the review sites that pop up at the top of a googled, binged or yahooed entry.

Those are the people Nvidia is trying to roll, not the tech site forum regulars.

That's also possible. My opinion wasn't iron-clad empricism, exactly. So I guess we are both more or less taken best guesses at what most of the people would likely behave. Perhaps this begs for some kind of study in the real world.

 

[happy medium]

I can tell you when its NOT fair.

If they were to pit a overclocked gtx460 card with voltage @ 920 core vs a 6870.

Its fair because ANYONE can buy a gtx460 ftw but NOT everyone can overclock a gtx460 to 920 core.

 

[AnandThenMan]

You view that to be a matter of opinion or a matter of fact?

Everything is open to interpretation, if you want to split hairs. I would hope Anandtech would not write articles and stir up a hornets nest unless there was a good reason for it.

 

[psoomah]

"It is unfair, but does not cross ethical bounds; many nv/ati skewed sites do it"

'Politically Correct' BOGUS choice.

I can name half a dozen notorious Nvidia ass-kissing review sites off the top of my head, but nothing in particular comes to mind for ATI.

Any takers?

ps. Semi-accurate is not a review site. yet.

 

[RussianSensation]

Anand's and Ryan's response makes the most logical sense:

"At $179 buy the 6850. At $239 buy the 6870 for best performance/power. If you want the best overall performance, buy the GTX 470. However, as long as they are available the EVGA GeForce GTX 460 FTW is a good alternative. You get the same warranty you would on a standard GTX 460, but you do sacrifice power consumption for the performance advantage over the 6870."

Consumers are happy with the choice at the same price point. The cards come AS IS factory pre-overclocked w/ warranty. It's not the same as overclocking the card in MSI afternburner yourself...

The proper wording is sometimes is faster.

Umm...no the proper wording is faster most of the time.

Also, you can check any review on the web and you'll see that at 850mhz, a GTX460 > GTX470.

Looks like an 800mhz and below 460 will not be a competitor.

But 780-800mhz GTX460s cost $199 - $219, not $239.

 

[happy medium]

Where are the HD 5850/5870 OC in this review? Where's the Sapphire Toxic? Where's the Asus Top? The XFX Black edition?

They were not released yet. Try again. How far you gonna go back? x1900 vs 7800gtx?

 

[blastingcap]

I don't think blastingcap is upset, these cards did what they had to do. Now someone looking at a 460 has a perfectly viable alternative in the 6870, a card that offers features that may appeal to the buyer they don't find in a 460, and AMD managed to soundly dethrone 460 SLI as the go-to budget multi-gpu setup.

I'm not upset about card results, though I agree with many people that AT could have handled the FTW situation better because it's kinda muddled right now to the average reader.

Tvice thinks I'm an AMD fanboy apparently. *lol* Oh god, if you only knew how much of an NV snob I was pre-bumpgate, tvice....

The only thing I am upset about is the price gouging on Tiger. newegg is being nice but tax+shipping kills the deal there for me. It's gotten to the point where if price gouging persists, I'm thinking about abandoning Eyefinity and getting a GTX460-768 for 1680x1050 gaming and moving my third monitor to my second rig.

By the way, I made an unanswered thread here (http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2114553) asking if the $140 GTX460-768 Tiger has on sale, will overvolt using Afterburner. I still can't find an answer to that q, so if anyone knows the answer, please let me know! (If that card falls to $125AR I will probably get it despite the horrible reviews on the fan and how it breaks and stuff.)

 

[Idontcare]

IDC;

I don't think I can change the poll choices without losing any votes. Can the poll in the other thread be changed?

Not without losing its votes.

At this point its probably not feasible to effectively merge the polls. But we need to lock the thread or merge it.

Locking it will preserve the poll results, merging will not.

 

[nyker96]

I think it's more useful info if reviewer just take the stock and OC it up see how much room it got on this particular sample. If every site do it with their sample then we get a general ideal of the OC margin.

But don't do it with samples sent from manufacturs as they are certainly hand picked. But retail buys are fine.

Don't include OCed versions of NV vs stock ATI unless you compare OC vs OC.

 

[Paratus]

The wording on that poll is RETARDED.

Damn I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight.

Let me refund the money you had to pay to read my retarded poll.

 

[happy medium]

asking if the $140 GTX460-768 Tiger has on sale, will overvolt using Afterburner

Sorry I missed that, Yes it will overvolt.

 

[blastingcap]

Sorry I missed that, Yes it will overvolt.

Thanks, good to know; I have found people saying Afterburner will oc it but I could not find anything anywhere about overvolting it with Afterburner. I am aware that the Galaxy software that comes with the card allows only oc, not overvolting.

 

[MagickMan]

I don't mind as long as they're showing all the cards at their overclocked potential. Otherwise, I start smelling a rat. In the case of the EVGA FTW, it comes from the factory OCed, so I just look at it as "that's the way it ships, that's what it is".

Yeah, and that's coming from an ATi fan. See? I can be unbiased.

 

[mosox]

Agree. Glad you took the time to share your thoughts.

Really where does it stop if Anandtech has set a precedent to include limited edition, very highly (not typical of market condition) OC'd cards in the testing/comparison's of new GPU's. Especially if the pressure is coming from manufactures to include this kind of behavior in reviews, it's going to make a mess of things and what we are going to get it is special edition limited edition super clocked cards being fed to reviewers on the eve of the competions new product launch....

oh wait...

yes we are already there.

It's the wrong path to go down if you want to present the clearest picture of the GPU playing field. The OC'd versions of the reference cards really need to have their own editorials and pro's con's.

Thanks for your words. IMO we're not there yet. I hope we won't see reviews comparing specific cards like "Powercolor Cheapo" for AMD and "EVGA Super Extra" for Nvidia or the other way around. Just AMD XXXX vs Nvidia YYY. Sure the manufacturers try their best but for me the very fact that Nvidia considered necessary to send those cards and plead for their use in the review shows that they don't trust their own cards very much (and they're wrong, the GTX 460 are great cards and a wonderful basis for a new card, 460x2).

Anyway they're far from the G80/G92 days, hope they put their act together soon and keep the competition afloat.

 

[happy medium]

Don't include OCed versions of NV vs stock ATI unless you compare OC vs OC.

What if the factory overclocked card cost the same and will overclock even further?

Reviewers should not compare factory overclocked card which is GARAUNTEED to run @ 850 vs a 6870 that MIGHT reach 950. Thats just dum.
WHat if the 6870 card was a dud and only got to 920 core , then the fanboys would be calling bias, bias , no way, thats not fair ect, ect.
They review what you can buy from retailers.

 

[happy medium]

I don't mind as long as they're showing all the cards at their overclocked potential. Otherwise, I start smelling a rat. In the case of the EVGA FTW, it comes from the factory OCed, so I just look at it as "that's the way it ships, that's what it is".

Yeah, and that's coming from an ATi fan. See? I can be unbiased.

I can honestly say I'm proud of you. :thumbsup:

 

[RussianSensation]

Why end with OC solutions?

Why not custom solutions? Heat, noise and power consumption are all factors in a buy.

Great!! If OC, heat, noise and power consumption are important, there are there in the review! As are 2 $239 cards compared to one another, both with factory warranties and are AS IS when the consumer buys them. If you can't buy a $239 FTW edition card in your area, the stock results are also in the charts.

Imagine NVIDIA was about to launch GTX480 and GTX470 and bam Sapphire or XFX just release an OC 5870 to 950 or 1000 at an amazing price? No need to include it on the charts between stock reference competitors.

Then the newer relevant info like same priced factory pre-OCed AMD cards should most definitely be taken into consideration. When AMD cut prices on HD5770 when GTS450 was launched, that's relevant new info we all wanted to know.