Shooting at art festival in Texas

[realibrad]

At some point or another, free speech crosses over into public endangerment as incitement to violence. Which is what Geller wants- she wants people to get killed in service to her fanatical hate. She needs a lot more people to be killed to get where she wants to be, bet on that. It'd serve her cause entirely If some fools went after her next "art exhibit" Timothy McVeigh style. She'd have multiple hate-gasms.

Well, just so long as she wasn't there at the time.

Hatred breeds hatred, and I'm not prepared to defend any of it, certainly not hers or that of the perps.

The cops? They should have shut it down before it started, citing security & public endangerment concerns. OTOH, it's Texas, where LEO has all too often been complicit in hatred, dating back to before the Civil War.

See, you start on kinda reasonable, but then you shove your head so far up your own ass that the only thing that comes out is shit.

 

[Blue_Max]

That is one of your most ignorant posts ever and that is saying a lot.

Please tell us how many Muslim people you talk to on a daily basis. I'm very curious.

So.... HOW am I so ignorant? HOW am I wrong?

I have a muslim neighbour who's pleasant and friendly. In the same neighbourhood, the muslim kids have threatened my kids with beheading. I've had muslims in the street shouting "convert or be beheaded". I also get to see the violent gangs of muslims causing all kinds of trouble in my city. I've held the Q-book in my hands and read it for myself.

The "moderate" peaceful muslim is the one NOT following big-M's example or the Q-book's "nasty parts".
Unfortunately, the devout "radicals" are the ones who ARE following their prophet's example and the Q-book's instructions to the letter.

Christians and Jews have chosen to put aside the ancient demands of "death for this, death for that" -- it's time for muslims to follow suit.

In the meantime, if they don't live in a sharia country [shudder] then they have to respect that country's laws, which usually include DON'T MURDER PEOPLE, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAID TO YOU!!

(Image changed - didn't check source before posting.)

 

[rudeguy]

At some point or another, free speech crosses over into public endangerment as incitement to violence. Which is what Geller wants- she wants people to get killed in service to her fanatical hate. She needs a lot more people to be killed to get where she wants to be, bet on that. It'd serve her cause entirely If some fools went after her next "art exhibit" Timothy McVeigh style. She'd have multiple hate-gasms.

Well, just so long as she wasn't there at the time.

Hatred breeds hatred, and I'm not prepared to defend any of it, certainly not hers or that of the perps.

The cops? They should have shut it down before it started, citing security & public endangerment concerns. OTOH, it's Texas, where LEO has all too often been complicit in hatred, dating back to before the Civil War.

Yeah this is one of those situations where it could be edging into public safety. A big part of me wants to think this ended how it should, with the nut jobs dead. But then what happens the next time? Do the nut jobs bring more shooters?

I just hate hate. Both the idiots who made a big deal of pissing off a religion and the nut jobs trying to shoot the place up.

 

[MongGrel]

Zin has decided to go full liberal wacko. He's resorted to insulting anyone who disagrees with him but insists his opinions are facts. Now we are on to equating security with human hunting. That's a new low even for him.

And I used to like you so well 🙂

We'll just differ on this one I guess.

 

[rudeguy]

So.... HOW am I so ignorant? HOW am I wrong?

I have a muslim neighbour who's pleasant and friendly. In the same neighbourhood, the muslim kids have threatened my kids with beheading. I've had muslims in the street shouting "convert or be beheaded". I also get to see the violent gangs of muslims causing all kinds of trouble in my city. I've held the Q-book in my hands and read it for myself.

The "moderate" peaceful muslim is the one NOT following big-M's example or the Q-book's "nasty parts".
Unfortunately, the devout "radicals" are the ones who ARE following their prophet's example and the Q-book's instructions to the letter.

Christians and Jews have chosen to put aside the ancient demands of "death for this, death for that" -- it's time for muslims to follow suit.

In the meantime, if they don't live in a sharia country [shudder] then they have to respect that country's laws, which usually include DON'T MURDER PEOPLE, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAID TO YOU!!

To hell with Islam dot com? Really?

So now you have gangs of Muslims in your streets calling for beheadings? Is this the same place the feminists hang out and insult you?

You make up reasons to hate. You are beyond ignorant.

 

[MongGrel]

The problem is that you seem to think being offensive is the same as setting a trap. You might have a point if this were not the US but say Iraq. The US is about free speech. The reason you are allowed to have free speech is because it means ignorant people cannot stop ideas because they get labeled as wrong.

There was a time that saying a black person was equal to a white person was enough to get you into trouble. If a black man were to get uppity and try to date a white girl, it could cost him his life, and he would get the blame because he should have known better.

By calling people foxes aka animals, you take away their humanity and responsibility. People become nothing more than objects that react, and the nuance of being a person is lost. Free speech is so important to society that you can almost get away with anything said.

Imagine a world where you are not allowed to offend people. Religion calls all types of things immoral. Would you consider it baiting people that I live with my GF and we have sex out of wedlock? Would you consider it baiting when I tell people I dont believe there is a god? Would you consider it baiting to tell someone that I think their child is ugly?

The only thing you should have to worry about when using free speech is more free speech.

The point of free speech is to challenge people. If that to you is the same as baiting them into a situation where you can kill them, then you are twisted. There is no reason you should have to fear challenging peoples idea, but I suppose people like you are the reason.

What you said there is just mentally BS IMHO.

It's just even bad Pretzel Logic.

 

[realibrad]

What you said there is just mentally BS IMHO.

It's just even bad Pretzel Logic.

No no, make a claim but dont back it up. Far too much work I am sure.

 

[MongGrel]

No no, make a claim but dont back it up. Far too much work I am sure.

It is in this instance.

 

[realibrad]

It is in this instance.

Then I am going to take your comment as meaning less, and I would hope anyone else would as well. I really dont see the point of saying its wrong, and then ending it there. You seem to have the time, but not the will. What you did was pointless and has done nothing. So cheers I guess.

 

[Nebor]

Yeah this is one of those situations where it could be edging into public safety. A big part of me wants to think this ended how it should, with the nut jobs dead. But then what happens the next time? Do the nut jobs bring more shooters?

I just hate hate. Both the idiots who made a big deal of pissing off a religion and the nut jobs trying to shoot the place up.

This is why we need more police, and we need them better equipped, better trained and more heavily armed. The next time it could be a van full of knuckleheads with AK47s.

 

[Nebor]

I have a huge problem with it. It both incites violence & endangers the public.

I think that "drawing out the terrarists!" is an old Dick Cheney line from our most excellent adventure in Iraq, isn't it?

Worked like a fucking charm, apparently, given that the place is now crawling with terrorists.

In case you hadn't noticed, weird shit happens when anybody starts shooting. It's contagious. Armed fruitcakes of all kinds crawl out of the woodwork.

Hell, if the govt wanted to confront domestic terrarists! they could have started at the Bundy ranch, you know? Wiped out a whole bunch of 'em.

Absolutely 100% agree on that point. The ATF and BLM should have arrested the lot of them for threatening federal agents, among a host of other charges.

 

[zinfamous]

Yeah this is one of those situations where it could be edging into public safety. A big part of me wants to think this ended how it should, with the nut jobs dead. But then what happens the next time? Do the nut jobs bring more shooters?

I just hate hate. Both the idiots who made a big deal of pissing off a religion and the nut jobs trying to shoot the place up.

See! We totally agree!

😀

 

[zinfamous]

This is why we need more police, and we need them better equipped, better trained and more heavily armed. The next time it could be a van full of knuckleheads with AK47s.

Or the Libyans with their RPGs! D:

And lol at this:

 

[rudeguy]

This is why we need more police, and we need them better equipped, better trained and more heavily armed. The next time it could be a van full of knuckleheads with AK47s.

The police already have ARs, armored vehicles and all sorts of military gear.

I don't have the solution to this one. Freedom vs security is never an easy debate.

 

[Blue_Max]

To hell with Islam dot com? Really?

So now you have gangs of Muslims in your streets calling for beheadings? Is this the same place the feminists hang out and insult you?

You make up reasons to hate. You are beyond ignorant.

I just did a google search and copied the image URL without checking where it came from. My bad there.

But yes, we have a LOT of muslim unrest here and I'm one of the people that gets stuck seeing the result of it. I also get to see the result of violent females that feminism says "doesn't exist".

In short, I get to see the reality you want to pretend isn't real. You look at the shiny exterior while I deal with the rusted, broken interior.

You can college-liberal it up all you want - it's not real. Until you deal with the real problems that exist, they'll only get worse... and you can't deal with a problem if you pretend there isn't one.


Now would be a good time for me to point out that I'm NOT supporting this "art" gallery - it was created solely to provoke and that's not cool no matter what the subject matter is. That's not how civilized discussion happens. It has its place though... for when all other attempts to communicate have failed and it forces a discussion to happen.

 

[MongGrel]

Then I am going to take your comment as meaning less, and I would hope anyone else would as well. I really dont see the point of saying its wrong, and then ending it there. You seem to have the time, but not the will. What you did was pointless and has done nothing. So cheers I guess.

Take it any way you want to.

 

[rudeguy]

I just did a google search and copied the image URL without checking where it came from. My bad there.

But yes, we have a LOT of muslim unrest here and I'm one of the people that gets stuck seeing the result of it. I also get to see the result of violent females that feminism says "doesn't exist".

In short, I get to see the reality you want to pretend isn't real. You look at the shiny exterior while I deal with the rusted, broken interior.

You can college-liberal it up all you want - it's not real. Until you deal with the real problems that exist, they'll only get worse... and you can't deal with a problem if you pretend there isn't one.


Now would be a good time for me to point out that I'm NOT supporting this "art" gallery - it was created solely to provoke and that's not cool no matter what the subject matter is. That's not how civilized discussion happens. It has its place though... for when all other attempts to communicate have failed and it forces a discussion to happen.

What exactly is it you do that puts you in contact with these people?

And are you calling me a college liberal?

 

[Jhhnn]

This is why we need more police, and we need them better equipped, better trained and more heavily armed. The next time it could be a van full of knuckleheads with AK47s.

And we should pay for that how? The usual methods of beating the cash out miscreants? That's the Ferguson model, iirc. Texas voters sure as Hell won't go for it if they have to pay for it.

I'll agree with the better trained part. I think they need a better mission, too, like a whole new approach to drugs, particularly marijuana.

We quit wasting resources on that here in Colorado. Hell, the State makes money off it. It's probably one of the best things that ever happened wrt community relations, as well.

 

[zinfamous]

Oh if that is your point, then yes I agree. Its a horrible idea to try and get people to try and bait terrorists into violence. If their goal is to do offensive things to challenge their beliefs, then I am 100% for it. If the goal is to get people into situations so that you can kill them legally, then I am not for it.

For this hate group, specifically, I would not be surprised if that is in fact their goal. This lady has a history of goading, and as you probably know, there are very real niche sects of extreme fundamentalists Christians that actively engage the "Apocolypse." You know--those wackadoos that don't realize that claptrap was written as a metaphor, and actually think it is the true prediction of the end of the world. In their minds, the "Apocalypse" (what they interpret as the end of the world; and not the name of the actual field of battle from which that book actually got its name) comes on one last battle between Jews and Muslims. They want Jesus to purge the sinners and bring them to Heaven pronto, and so this is the most expedient way to accomplish that.

Hilariously enough, this is exactly what ISIS believes, and this is their goal. They are setting up for a great war to bring the end times. I agree with the Atlantic reporter that the only way to fight such a group of loony toons is to mostly ignore them and let their cult collapse from within.

Anyway, While I think it is certainly useful to offend and even inflame certain groups, in a certain way, in order to accomplish some evolution in thought, It seems clear to me that this is not the best approach with crazy people. Or maybe it is the only way; I don't know. I feel that this is simply how things have been done in history when this world was far more zealous, far more religious, far less rational in major population centers. Christians, Jews, and even Buddhists engaged in some serious bloodletting over the centuries before finally settling down and learning how to behave amongst each other, and properly offend one another.

I feel that much of the Islamic world is simply trying to live out 7th century ideas in our current time. And, quite frankly, the most simplest of grievances could be the one that we have been hearing all of these years "We just don't want you in our land, so get the fuck out!" I mean...why not?

It disturbs me to think that the norm may well be more hate fests like this, more murder, and more or less legally protected, until one side finally concedes.

 

[Blue_Max]

For this hate group, specifically, I would not be surprised if that is in fact their goal. This lady has a history of goading, and as you probably know, there are very real niche sects of extreme fundamentalists Christians that actively engage the "Apocolypse." You know--those wackadoos that don't realize that claptrap was written as a metaphor, and actually think it is the true prediction of the end of the world. In their minds, the "Apocalypse" (what they interpret as the end of the world; and not the name of the actual field of battle from which that book actually got its name) comes on one last battle between Jews and Muslims. They want Jesus to purge the sinners and bring them to Heaven pronto, and so this is the most expedient way to accomplish that.

Heh... what's even more ironic is that if they want to call themselves a Christian group and bring about "the end" - they should actually read the dang Bible - cover to cover. THEORETICALLY, the method to bring about the second coming is in there and it's simple; the whole world has to know about Jeee-sus. That's it. Then the Big Guy is supposed to automatically take care of the rest.

Easier than putting a plant into the ship's holo-detector!

It's really quite clear as well - not a lot of room for interpretation.
(I used to be quite the theologian. Those days are over.) ^_^


That's part of the issue we're seeing all around the world with Islam... it's VERY easy to pick out one section that says "GO GET 'EM!!" then slam the book shut before they can read any more. Heck, I'd bet over half of the muslims on this planet can't read at all and are at the mercy of their muhhhmhmhma-leader-preacher-whatever tells them to believe.

You can imagine I don't much care for that either. I don't like seeing anyone get duped for someone else's personal gain, let alone for the purpose of recruiting an army.

 

[Nebor]

And we should pay for that how? The usual methods of beating the cash out miscreants? That's the Ferguson model, iirc. Texas voters sure as Hell won't go for it if they have to pay for it.

I'll agree with the better trained part. I think they need a better mission, too, like a whole new approach to drugs, particularly marijuana.

We quit wasting resources on that here in Colorado. Hell, the State makes money off it. It's probably one of the best things that ever happened wrt community relations, as well.

LOL. Texas has the more police armored vehicles per capita in the country by a wide margin. There used to be a state law forbidding police agencies from possessing belt-fed automatic weapons (machine guns in the truest sense,) but it was repealed in 2006.

It's mostly all paid for by the federal government btw. Although Texas isn't short on money. Still running surpluses down here.

 

[Jaskalas]

Oh if that is your point, then yes I agree. Its a horrible idea to try and get people to try and bait terrorists into violence. If their goal is to do offensive things to challenge their beliefs, then I am 100% for it. If the goal is to get people into situations so that you can kill them legally, then I am not for it.

I don't hold cartoonists applicable to the notion of baiting.

 

[highland145]

I don't hold cartoonists applicable to the notion of baiting.

But they die pretty well because of it.

 

[ivwshane]

Actually, he was not far off in his understanding.

Implicit in his comment is that saying things can cause people to act in whats that the person engaging in free speech would be responsible for.



He asked if he was not for expressing freedom of speech, which Jhhnn did not explicitly say, so it seems like Rudeguy wanted to make sure.

As for the the FBI part, that is probably an attempt at some humor but its not out of the possibility when such a dumb comment, so half fun and half question it would seem.

What I find most ironic about your response is that Rudeguy did not make a claim for Jhhnn, but simply posed a question. You in fact where the one who made a claim, by saying that Rudeguy made a claim, which empirically.

If you are going to get so bitchy, you might want to make sure you understand what is going on. Not doing so makes you look like a pissed off little bitch.

Actually dumbass, he asked an either or question, neither which are the only choices. A false dichotomy and a form of a logical fallacy.

 

[realibrad]

Actually dumbass, he asked an either or question, neither which are the only choices. A false dichotomy and a form of a logical fallacy.

Actually dumbass you are wrong. The way it was posed was not mutually exclusive, therefore not dichotomy dummy.