Shoo, poor, shoo! Get off my porch!

[WhipperSnapper]

LOL. What do you think will happen to the 99 jobs that machine replaced?

Be careful to distinguish the difference between shipping jobs overseas and increased productive efficiency at home through the use of improved technology.

When jobs are shipped overseas it contributes to the trade deficit and much of the cost savings goes into the pockets of the business owners. Consumers might save money and purchase other goods and services, but if those goods and services are produced overseas that money will merely create more jobs overseas.

In contrast, a technologically-driven productivity increase that is used domestically would not produce a trade deficit and most of the cost savings would go to consumers who would then use the money they are saving to purchase other goods and services, resulting in new jobs for the production of those goods and services, replacing the lost jobs.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Maybe because the logistics of implementing and enforcing a "right to work" would be a nightmare?

Probably no more of a nightmare than managing a welfare system. I suspect that what Kennedy was getting at was that the government would guarantee everyone the right to at least work some sort of a government-provided infrastructure-building job. The point of proposing something like that was to make the opposition acknowledge that their opposition to welfare was not merely that it was creating a lazy underclass but also that they don't have any compassion or concern for the poor.

 

[ElFenix]

While the Clinton Admin may well have been a little over exuberant wrt home ownership, loans from that era simply didn't have the default rates of today, and prices hadn't exploded to ridiculous levels.

It's not like the situation was out of hand, at all, when GWB took office...

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/update-case-shiller-100-year-chart/

Don't let facts interfere with blaming Bill, however...

i blame HGTV, the NAR, and mortgage brokers (while no doubt most of them are honest and upstanding their interest is to get a fee quickly, while the bank's and the borrower's is to get a mortgage that will perform)

 

[Robor]

Be careful to distinguish the difference between shipping jobs overseas and increased productive efficiency at home through the use of improved technology.

When jobs are shipped overseas it contributes to the trade deficit and much of the cost savings goes into the pockets of the business owners. Consumers might save money and purchase other goods and services, but if those goods and services are produced overseas that money will merely create more jobs overseas.

In contrast, a technologically-driven productivity increase that is used domestically would not produce a trade deficit and most of the cost savings would go to consumers who would then use the money they are saving to purchase other goods and services, resulting in new jobs for the production of those goods and services, replacing the lost jobs.

And it would still result in massive layoffs, especially in this example. I work for a place that recently did just that.

 

[Mursilis]

Probably no more of a nightmare than managing a welfare system. I suspect that what Kennedy was getting at was that the government would guarantee everyone the right to at least work some sort of a government-provided infrastructure-building job. The point of proposing something like that was to make the opposition acknowledge that their opposition to welfare was not merely that it was creating a lazy underclass but also that they don't have any compassion or concern for the poor.

I'd say the vast majority have "compassion or concern for the poor." Most people, even Republicans, aren't soulless and heartless. But compassion and concern don't heat a home or put food on the table.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Compassionate Conservatism's finest hour, I tell ya...

Which of our resident clueless brownshirt wannabees will be the first to advocate that just gassing the poor would be more humane?

Well if they live on the beans and rice diet mentioned in this thread there will be a lot of gassing going on.


It upsets people to hear the truth sometimes. I don't advocate killing anyone, but subsidising a portion of the population for their entire life is pointless. You are throwing money, resources, and time into something that will gain society nothing except criminals. If they can't make it on their own, they either need to die off or work for their gubment cheese.
If these leeches want to get handouts from the government, they need to do something in return. There are plenty of potholes and ditches that need filling. Give them a shovel and a wheelbarrow of gravel and put them to work. Government ASSISTANCE should be just that. Assistance, not Government provided paychecks for you to sit on your ass and complain about how The Man kept you down.

 

[Hacp]

Many are not interested in a productive job. They have made the choice to not be qualified for the higher paying jobs.

They have determined that it is easier to suck off the government tit than work their asses off unlike previous generations. And they then perpetuate that cycle to their children.

There are jobs available to people with a HS education - they may not be glamorous but they are there. there are even jobs for those without a HS education. Even less glamorous; trash pickup, toilet cleaners,etc.

Some will actually pay decently if they get their foot in the door.
But that requires having the determination to cleanup and sell yourself

Actually, a lot of the trash pickup and toilet cleaning jobs have been unionized. The now pay 35-40k with union benefits. Many people want those jobs but Unions forbid them from being hired. Union members watch out for themselves only.

 

[Hacp]

Your laughable. You don't think the companies that will pay someone to figure out how to do that won't turn around and start doing the same thing with their $0.15/hour labor?

At that point, the margin is so insignificant that it doesn't matter. Shipping costs and quality control issues favor the US if the goods are purchased in the US.

 

[Hacp]

LOL. What do you think will happen to the 99 jobs that machine replaced?

It doesn't matter. What matters is that everything is happening in the US.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Mr. Bauer himself is a sterling example of the problem he decries.

The child of a single-parent household receiving government assistance, thirty-some years later he's still suckling at the government teat.

 

[Red Dawn]

Actually, a lot of the trash pickup and toilet cleaning jobs have been unionized. The now pay 35-40k with union benefits. Many people want those jobs but Unions forbid them from being hired. Union members watch out for themselves only.

Lol, you make that sound like a good job well worth the pay and the bennies .Would you do those jobs for that pay? I wouldn't.

 

[Jhhnn]

Actually, a lot of the trash pickup and toilet cleaning jobs have been unionized. The now pay 35-40k with union benefits. Many people want those jobs but Unions forbid them from being hired. Union members watch out for themselves only.

Intentionally deceptive. Unions and employers enter into voluntary agreements whereby the company can hire as many workers for specified positions as they want at the union wage. That's true even in right to work states. Generally speaking, the more members, the merrier as far as unions are concerned. Unions don't forbid hiring, they merely determine the rate of pay.

Companies will often spin that into being a restriction on the number of people they can afford to hire, which is an entirely different argument than the one presented...

 

[Hacp]

Intentionally deceptive. Unions and employers enter into voluntary agreements whereby the company can hire as many workers for specified positions as they want at the union wage. That's true even in right to work states. Generally speaking, the more members, the merrier as far as unions are concerned. Unions don't forbid hiring, they merely determine the rate of pay.

Companies will often spin that into being a restriction on the number of people they can afford to hire, which is an entirely different argument than the one presented...

Thanks for putting it in a clearer fashion. That is exactly what I wanted to say. The companies have a certain budget for workers. New guys want to get in and are willing to work for less just to get a job but they can't because the company doesn't have the money to pay the 40k union salaries.

 

[nobodyknows]

At that point, the margin is so insignificant that it doesn't matter. Shipping costs and quality control issues favor the US if the goods are purchased in the US.

like I said, you're laughable.

 

[nobodyknows]

Thanks for putting it in a clearer fashion. That is exactly what I wanted to say. The companies have a certain budget for workers. New guys want to get in and are willing to work for less just to get a job but they can't because the company doesn't have the money to pay the 40k union salaries.

So you're mad at the unions for protecting their jobs but not the one in the "good ole boy's club" who overpay themselves much for what they do?

That's laughable from where I sit.

 

[CitizenKain]

So you're mad at the unions for protecting their jobs but not the one in the "good ole boy's club" who overpay themselves much for what they do?

That's laughable from where I sit.

Its always fun hearing how the world works from a college student. They really are so wonderfully clueless, and they always try so hard to prove it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Thanks for putting it in a clearer fashion. That is exactly what I wanted to say. The companies have a certain budget for workers. New guys want to get in and are willing to work for less just to get a job but they can't because the company doesn't have the money to pay the 40k union salaries.

Race to the bottom, right? Well, at least for workers.

Employers have other limitations on their business, usually related to demand, quality and their ability to manage a larger workforce. Employers often just pay less, pocket the difference in your scenario. Single income families disappear, dual incomes become necessary. Wash, rinse, repeat until repeal of child labor laws starts to look like a good idea.

Understanding our current malaise requires a much deeper look, often at what we believe, at the underlying framework of political thought. When we believe things that aren't true, we reach erroneous conclusions. Much of what we believe has been tailored to appeal to us in an emotional rather than a rational way. I would suggest that's particularly true for much of the Right in this country, who believe in and vote for things contrary to their own interests, contrary to the well being of the nation as a whole.

Left to its own devices, capitalism is a system of booms and busts, also of wealth consolidation into the hands of a very few. In a democracy, an educated and informed electorate will attempt to moderate that. Unfortunately, changes in the political landscape over the last 30 years have eliminated or reduced those moderating forces, leading to the current near catastrophe. Like it or not, capitalism requires restraint if it's to benefit us all, rather than just a few.

 

[digiram]

Problem is, many of these people claim to be Christians as well.