Shocking: Democrats got more votes in races for the House of Representitives.

[JTsyo]

I do not think you understand how house apportionment works, so you might not want to wonder too much about what liberals think@#@# The entire point is to make representation equal for X number of citizens@#@# Whether they reside in a heavily populated state or not doesn't matter@#@#

The only time it matters at all is when states have such a small population that due to rounding you end up with a modest disparity@#@# That is not at all the cause of this problem, however@#@#

Go look at a map of PA's congressional races and tell me if you think that accurately represents a state that Obama won by 6 points@#@# Remember that every district is approximately equal in population@#@# Then @#@#@#e back and try to argue big state small state@#@#

EDIT: Here is the map of Pennsylvania, a state Obama won by actually a bit less than 6 points@#@# If the HOR apportionment were working as intended you would see about a 50/50 district split, maybe 1 or 2 extra for the Democrats@#@# Instead you see this:

But hey guys, big states small states, amirite?

So how does that work? They divide the democratic districts into larger republican ones to favor them?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

What's wrong with his/her avatar? (That's an honest question BTW - I'm mostly face blind and avoid most pop culture so if I should recognize the person, I don't** I actually assumed it was him/her**)

He/she/it has written that the avatar was chosen to represent a "typical Obama supporter," or words to that effect. I believe it was in the context of a discussion of the receipt of public assistance of some kind.

 

[Yreka]

He/she/it has written that the avatar was chosen to represent a "typical Obama supporter," or words to that effect. I believe it was in the context of a discussion of the receipt of public assistance of some kind.

Its the "Obama Phone" Lady !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr201FqTP4w&feature=related

 

[werepossum]

He/she/it has written that the avatar was chosen to represent a "typical Obama supporter," or words to that effect. I believe it was in the context of a discussion of the receipt of public assistance of some kind.

Ah.

Its the "Obama Phone" Lady !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr201FqTP4w&feature=related

Sweet Lord, that woman HAS to be a parody. No one can be that stupid and survive.

 

[fskimospy]

So how does that work? They divide the democratic districts into larger republican ones to favor them?

You do it both ways, it's called cracking and stacking. You take all the districts you can that modestly favor democrats and you try and do a readjustment where you have one district that is SUPER democratic and then a bunch of other districts that are modestly Republican. If you do it right with say... 10 districts instead of having 6 democrat and 4 republican you end up with 8 republican and 2 democrat, or something to that effect.

 

[werepossum]

You do it both ways, it's called cracking and stacking. You take all the districts you can that modestly favor democrats and you try and do a readjustment where you have one district that is SUPER democratic and then a bunch of other districts that are modestly Republican. If you do it right with say... 10 districts instead of having 6 democrat and 4 republican you end up with 8 republican and 2 democrat, or something to that effect.

That actually started with the Democrats, with a fairly benign intent - they gerrymandered districts to make them majority black so that black representatives would be elected. Nowadays both parties do it for party reasons.

 

[nehalem256]

That actually started with the Democrats, with a fairly benign intent - they gerrymandered districts to make them majority black so that black representatives would be elected. Nowadays both parties do it for party reasons.

So you mean they gerrymandered the districts so that all the urban black areas are in one district. WOW! Just like in Pennsylvania.

Hands up if you like the irony of Democrats gerrymandering districts in a way that ends up favoring Republicans overall.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Actually, both parties do this. But Republicans are very skilled at it. For example, in Utah, Republicans split Salt Lake City into 4 pieces to split its more liberal vote and allow the suburban areas to swamp each piece. Before 2012, Republicans split Cleveland for similar reasons. By 2012, they decided to combine Cleveland into a vote sink since Ohio lost two seats.

Anyway, in Pennsylvania, Democratic House candidates received more votes in the House 2.72 million votes to 2.65 million votes for the Republicans but Republicans control 13 seats to 5 for the Democrats. Similar thing in Ohio. Democrats won more House votes in Ohio but Republicans control 12 to 4 seats. Again, Democrats in North Carolina got more House votes than Republicans 2.2 million to 2.14 million but Republicans control 9 seats to 4 for the Democrats. Fair district non partisan redistricting would destroy the Republican locks on these three states. Not going to happen until Democrats come into control and return it more towards parity especially in SEPA and NW PA.

and you really think the Democrats will stop at "fair"?

 

[werepossum]

So you mean they gerrymandered the districts so that all the urban black areas are in one district. WOW! Just like in Pennsylvania.

Hands up if you like the irony of Democrats gerrymandering districts in a way that ends up favoring Republicans overall.

Well, originally this was mostly in the South which Democrats owned except for the black vote. In many cities blacks were 20% or more of the population, yet zero percent of the elected representatives. By doing so, Democrats not only courted the black vote, but also made blacks feel like they had actual representation in the government - not a trivial matter in itself considering that until the sixties blacks faced a huge amount of discrimination, much of it from government itself. This actually helped the Dems originally as they cut into the Pubbies' black vote. In areas where the Democrats control redistricting it still benefits the Democrats, since blacks are now THE most loyal Democrat voting block and thus districts may be gerrymandered to include just enough blacks to guarantee the district reliably goes Democrat. When the Republicans control redistricting it is as Eskimospy points out - these districts are more compact to include as many blacks as possible, to make other districts proportionally less Democrat.

It's a two-handed sword though. The party in power tries to engineer just enough of its votes in each district to maximize the number of districts it carries, so if turnout patterns significantly change that party can lose a LOT of districts since by design many only slightly favor that party.

 

[Tom]

and you really think the Democrats will stop at "fair"?

The Democrats wouldn't be more fair. I'm not sure there is a way to be fair.

I think its important to understand though because for example, John Bhoener claims a "mandate" for their policies because they have a majority in the House, but as a whole they received less than a majority of voters.

I'm not saying they should abandon their policies, but instead of trying to portray the makeup of the House as a national statement on policy, they should acknowledge that the real national election is the one for President.

Historically both parties gave some deference to the authority that a Presidential election carries. Maybe because the Republicans were in such a weak position in 2008, they got into a mode of opposing everything Obama tried to do.

Its time they got out of that mode and start working with him.

 

[buckshot24]

He/she/it has written that the avatar was chosen to represent a "typical Obama supporter," or words to that effect. I believe it was in the context of a discussion of the receipt of public assistance of some kind.

I never said anything to this effect. I don't think she is a "typical" Obama supporter but all of the people with her mindset are going to vote for Democrats no matter what. How prevalent is the mindset in the total electorate? It could be as high as 25% but probably closer to 10%. (it isn't 47%)

In any case I am saddened and disgusted that this woman (and millions more) has been trained to get handouts by our government. She hasn't reached her full potential because she is shackled with the entitlement mentality that is making hard work a harder and harder sell.

 

[buckshot24]

No, the Democrats won this election, by every significant measure. The fact that they did not take over the House as a whole does not vitiate this fact - they still achieved net gains in both houses of Congress and won the Presidency decisively.

They gained seats but they do not have anywhere near control of the house, so they "lost". No room for moral victories in politics.

 

[buckshot24]

General house popular vote is meaningless. It's all about the Electoral College, ahem, I mean individual house races.

 

[fskimospy]

That actually started with the Democrats, with a fairly benign intent - they gerrymandered districts to make them majority black so that black representatives would be elected. Nowadays both parties do it for party reasons.

That's actually completely wrong. Gerrymandering is almost as old as the country itself and was most certainly not originated to give black people more voting power.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Why is there any legislative control of boundaries?

Why is there any party control of election rules at all?

On the surface, it's absolutely retarded, so if there's a legitimate reason I would love to understand it.