Shocking: Democrats got more votes in races for the House of Representitives.

[fskimospy]

Please show us this district without a continuous boundary.

And as for highly concentrated area. You mean like Democrats do in Pennsylvania? 4/5 of their districts cover very little area.

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/results/state/PA/house

The only district that is even close is 12. Democrats just fail to appeal to Pennsylvanians outside of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Stop blaming Republicans for being unable to appeal beyond a certain demographic.

Are you just being intentionally obtuse again? This result is exactly what a gerrymander looks like. One side wins a few districts overwhelmingly, and the other side takes the rest.

If you bothered to look into things you would see that democrats got 51% of the house votes, yet ended up with 28% of the representation. Looks like they are appealing to the population of the state just fine.

Shockingly a racist and anti woman party is appealing to you, but less so to the rest of us that don't hate women. People like you are a big reason the GOP lost, they didn't distance themselves from the crazies.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Once again your knowledge is incomplete.
Many Democratic states use a predertimed set of rules to apportion house districts and it is independent of the State legislatures.
It has been the Republicans who have led the charge in using newly available demographic data to pack democratic districts and make Republican districts winnable with as few votes as possible.

The reality is that it is not equivalent. The Republicans have led the charge in this area and have been hugely successful. The proof is in the proportions in the upcoming Congress and the popular vote.

It is the very fact of Republican gerrymandering in many states and the fact that they will undoubtedly continue this that makes it impossible for the Republicans to attract minorities.

Census data were delivered to Vermont on February 10, 2011.

The advisory commission must produce a proposed plan by July 1, 2011; towns and cities may make suggestions with respect to internal splits until August 1, 2011, and the advisory commission must produce a final recommended plan by August 15, 2011. The above deadlines may all be amended by statute. [17 Vt. Stat. §§ 1905-1907]

Once the commission produces a suggested plan, the legislature may then adopt, modify, or ignore the commission's proposal. State law provides that final plans should be passed during the biennial session after the census.

The way I read this is that the Legislature controls the district maps.

New Hampshire's congressional and state legislative lines are drawn by the legislature

Again - drawn by the legislature.

The Connecticut General Assembly bears primary responsibility for redistricting. To this end, the legislature appoints a bipartisan committee tasked with drafting new maps. These maps are then presented to both chambers and require a 2/3 majority vote for approval. If the legislature cannot agree on a plan by the deadline (September 15 in this case), a nine-member redistricting commission is selected to complete the task. Minority and majority leaders in both chambers each appoint two members, and the eight appointees select a ninth, tie-breaking member. The commission, which does not require legislative approval, has until another deadline (November 30) to create new maps

Again - drawn by the legislature.

The Rhode Island Legislature is responsible for redistricting.

Again - drawn by the legislature.

Massachusetts' congressional and state legislative lines are both drawn by the state legislature, as a regular statute, subject to gubernatorial veto.

Again - drawn by the legislature.

========================================
Now techs may be right; however, given that I pulled 5 Blue states, including his own and they ALL STATE that the redistricting is controlled by the legislature; my point stands.

Safe districts are made when possible.
Questionable districts are made and stacked if possible with leftovers from unsafe districts or what is felt can be reallocated from safe districts.
horse trading goes on.

Even in Rhode Island they redistricted to help a representative be a little more secure.


So the Dems holier than though attitude toward redistricting is baloney.
both sides do it.

The voters are the ones that have the leverage based on who they select for the state. they rejected voting along party lines in 2010 for local government and got the result they expected.

 

[fskimospy]

EagleKeeper, you are really straining credulity here. Are you claiming that PA voters elected local representatives because they wished to have unequal federal congressional boundaries drawn? What on earth would you possibly be basing that on?

 

[techs]

EagleKeeper, you are really straining credulity here. Are you claiming that PA voters elected local representatives because they wished to have unequal federal congressional boundaries drawn? What on earth would you possibly be basing that on?

Yes, keep EagleKeeper posting. Republican outreach to minorities
I guess all the controversy over Republican gerrymandering in 2010 escaped him.
But it didn't escape minorities!

 

[EagleKeeper]

EagleKeeper, you are really straining credulity here. Are you claiming that PA voters elected local representatives because they wished to have unequal federal congressional boundaries drawn? What on earth would you possibly be basing that on?

I am stating that the PA voters elected who they wanted to represent them in the Federal government.

It is the Democrats that are stating that the rules of the game were unfair.
It shows that the voters were willing to elect Obama but not willing to allow a changing of the guard at this point.

If those boundaries were invalid; the courts would have stepped in.
In the NH case; they were worried that the Democrats may have overdrawn and the courts would reject the maps.

Why can you not complain about the blue states.

Mass used to have District #1 that support Conte. When he died in '91; there has been no other Republican rep in Congress. even though Mass has voted Republican. Look at the MA district maps; district one reaches out to central and eastern cities and ignore Springfield area. Why - to protect the seat for a Democrat!

People do not have to vote along party lines and they choose to how they want their voting districts setup by the selection of their local governments.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Yes, keep EagleKeeper posting. Republican outreach to minorities
I guess all the controversy over Republican gerrymandering in 2010 escaped him.
But it didn't escape minorities!

If it was such a problem; then why the less than 5% shift?

A total of 8 seats were lost. More than 8 minorities were elected. Seems like some Democrats were kicked out in the primaries by minorities.

Or those do not count

 

[nehalem256]

Are you just being intentionally obtuse again? This result is exactly what a gerrymander looks like. One side wins a few districts overwhelmingly, and the other side takes the rest.

And what Democratic districts would you say are gerrymandered?

The one big blue one in the east you could probably make the case for.

But the other ones look like perfectly reasonably drawn districts.

 

[nehalem256]

If you bothered to look into things you would see that democrats got 51% of the house votes, yet ended up with 28% of the representation. Looks like they are appealing to the population of the state just fine.

Someone doesnt understand the difference between the house and senate.

Or are you suggesting that the only way in which the above could happen is through gerrymandering?

Looking at the map the only way you wouldnt get the split you observed is if you made all the districts contain a little bit of say Pittsburgh and then radiate out into the country side. Or basically you would have to gerrymander the districts to get the results you want.

Shockingly a racist and anti woman party is appealing to you, but less so to the rest of us that don't hate women. People like you are a big reason the GOP lost, they didn't distance themselves from the crazies.

Funny that I didnt vote in the last election.

EDIT: And if the Republican Party is really anti-woman why do a majority of married women vote Republican?

 

[EagleKeeper]

EagleKeeper, you are really straining credulity here. Are you claiming that PA voters elected local representatives because they wished to have unequal federal congressional boundaries drawn? What on earth would you possibly be basing that on?

They elected a representative because they trusted that representative to represent their values.

Is that a hard thing to understand?

Voters voting for representation.

They are under no obligation to vote a party line at the Federal or state level.

 

[EagleKeeper]

<snip>
EDIT: And if the Republican Party is really anti-woman why do a majority of married women vote Republican?

Their arms are being twisted by their white husbands?

 

[EagleKeeper]

All this thread has shown is that techs does not understand how districts can be created, voted and feels that voters that do not know the party line should not be counted; they are disfranchising others.

and that Dems do not have the halo around their heads.

Out of this thread now

 

[nextJin]

all this thread has shown is that techs does not understand how districts can be created, voted and feels that voters that do not know the party line should not be counted; they are disfranchising others.

And that dems do not have the halo around their heads.

Out of this thread now

u mad?

 

[ElFenix]

Concentrated urban areas do not need to inherently be in one district, that is obviously false by even a cursory look at apportionment throughout the country.

there may not be but one of the reasons that using compact districts isn't politically palatable is that they tend to reduce minority voting power. that's due in part to de facto segregation in where people live.

 

[fskimospy]

They elected a representative because they trusted that representative to represent their values.

Is that a hard thing to understand?

Voters voting for representation.

They are under no obligation to vote a party line at the Federal or state level.

What does that have to do with anything? You realize that more people voted for democratic representation in the House in PA than voted for Republican representation, right? Does the congressional outcome reflect that?

Why are you even mentioning party lines? They are irrelevant. I don't think you understand how this works.

 

[nehalem256]

What does that have to do with anything? You realize that more people voted for democratic representation in the House in PA than voted for Republican representation, right? Does the congressional outcome reflect that?

Why are you even mentioning party lines? They are irrelevant. I don't think you understand how this works.

I think you do not understand how Representative voting works. You do not vote for representatives by state. You vote based on district.

You are simply throwing a fit because Democrats are VERY popular amongst a small portion of the electorate. Whereas Republicans have a broad base of support.

 

[techs]

hehe. I wonder how motivated Democrats are going to be in 2014 when the Democratic candidates ask voters how well the House served the majority of its voters?

This will be a 2014 issue and a big one.

 

[blankslate]

Gerrymandering is a great thing.... as long as you're the one doing it

 

[fskimospy]

I think you do not understand how Representative voting works. You do not vote for representatives by state. You vote based on district.

You are simply throwing a fit because Democrats are VERY popular amongst a small portion of the electorate. Whereas Republicans have a broad base of support.

You just made it clear that you don't understand what's being discussed here. I'll add it to the list.

I do like how you just said that the party that won the popular vote has a narrow appeal and the one that lost it has a broad appeal though.

You mad? It's only going to get worse from here until the GOP throws the crazies overboard. That means you.

 

[nehalem256]

Gerrymandering is a great thing.... as long as you're the one doing it

There hasn't even been any proof of gerrymandering in this case.

There is no reason you cannot have non gerrymandered districts that exhibit the results seen.

 

[blankslate]

There hasn't even been any proof of gerrymandering in this case.

There is no reason you cannot have non gerrymandered districts that exhibit the results seen.

We'll have to see... I'm sure arguments about this are only starting.

 

[fskimospy]

There hasn't even been any proof of gerrymandering in this case.

There is no reason you cannot have non gerrymandered districts that exhibit the results seen.

What do you mean 'proof of gerrymandering'? Be specific.

 

[Ausm]

u mad?

Who gives a shit!

 

[the DRIZZLE]

EDIT: Here is the map of Pennsylvania, a state Obama won by actually a bit less than 6 points. If the HOR apportionment were working as intended you would see about a 50/50 district split, maybe 1 or 2 extra for the Democrats. Instead you see this:

But hey guys, big states small states, amirite?

That is not necessarily true. If the rest of the state is 51% R and Philadelphia is 90%, that is the natural outcome and is exactly what you would expect the map to look like. Do you want them to put a small piece of Philly into every other district?

 

[fskimospy]

That is not necessarily true. If the rest of the state is 51% R and Philadelphia is 90%, that is the natural outcome and is exactly what you would expect the map to look like. Do you want them to put a small piece of Philly into every other district?

Yeah, I'm sure that's the case too. Go take a look at the district maps and come back and say with a straight face that this just happened to be this way.

Give me a fucking break.

 

[nehalem256]

Yeah, I'm sure that's the case too. Go take a look at the district maps and come back and say with a straight face that this just happened to be this way.

Give me a fucking break.

We could just look at the county by county presidential vote and note how similar it looks to the HoR map.

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/results/state/PA/president