Shimmering brought up in the [H]ardOCP 7900 article

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

There is no question that the Radeon X1900 XTX runs hotter and is louder; sometimes to the point of being very annoying. We quite like NVIDIA?s reference cooling solution on the GeForce 7900 GTX. It does the job well with a large silent fan. Of course cooling solutions on retail add-in-board video cards can and will be different. NVIDIA?s reference board?s cooling solution shines through as a great design.

Notice how they never say that the X1900XTX is "twice as loud".

 

[SolMiester]

I have 6600GT Dug & no shimmering! What games are you playing & how much have you drunk at time of 'shimmering'...lol

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Of course it exists, otherwise it wouldn't be a subject for discussion today. I can picture the HardOCP guys going through the exact same thing we did. A bunch of guys standing around a 7900 benchmarking computer, half of them think the shimmering is horrendous, and the other half can't see it at all. Nothing has changed.

Wrong. Its all about the hardware. They did not say that some of them did not see it, both of them did. They have stated before that the hardware goes thru two editors hands. If one didnt see it, they would have said so.

You still dont want to accept the fact that with certain hardware, it is a big issue. You obviously have never used a 2405FPW or the like, and a recent NV card.

Shove the LCD in the garbage bin, where it belongs! use a CRT. Problem solved.

Problem is not solved because 1) I can't get a 30" CRT and 2) I still seen the shimmering on my ViewSonic PF790 19" CRT.

So that isn't a valid solution. Additionally, solving a problem by sinking more money into it also is not a valid solution.

I happen to love my LCD. Luckily, the shimmer isn't terrible in all games. But I can tell you one thing, ATI is getting my money next upgrade if this shimmering issue isn't fixed. Personally, it is sad enough that nVidia hasn't fixed it.

:thumbsdown:

But people are right, it doesn't bother everyone. That is good... Keep that in mind when you say "nVidia gets better frame rates"... Well, the same can be said in return, Who the heck cares about frame rates? Not everyone does... I mean on and on and on you could go with the preference BS. Fact is, shimmering exists. Fact is, it should have been fixed a long time ago.

 

[TheRyuu]

n00b question, I know a lot of differnt problems with video cards, but define shimmering for me (since I forgot )

 

[Wreckage]

It's also been proven to exist on ATI cards as well.

CS:S and WoW have shown shimmering on ATI cards.

 

[CP5670]

I can easily see the shimmering in almost every game if I use the default quality settings. It may possibly be more noticeable at higher resolutions and I use 20x15 most of the time. The shimmering is so bad at default quality settings that turning off AF actually looks better to me than having it on. It's a very good thing the HQ and LOD clamp options exist, as they reduce the effect dramatically.

I don't know what it's like on ATI cards, but I rarely had any problem with this on my old 6800 GT.

 

[Munky]

I can see some shimmering on my x1900, using a CRT. It happens in some games like COD2 and I cant seem to get rid of it. I shouldnt have to put up with this crap on a $500+ video card, and if it's even worse on Nv cards, then I pity the fool who has to put up with the shimmering. Sometimes I wish I still had my 9800p rig, just so I could see what it's like to play without shimmering.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: SolMiester
I have 6600GT Dug & no shimmering! What games are you playing & how much have you drunk at time of 'shimmering'...lol

It's pretty bad on vegitation in Colin Mcrae 04, really noticeable in CS:S (perhaps the worst offender) & hl2, very bad on vegitation in Farcry, not too bad in FEAR, shocking in GTA3 Vice City (where it really annoys me since i can basically max the AA/AF and still get silky smooth FPS, but the shimmeriing is still there )...

that's all i'm really playing atm. I just tend to ignore it after i get drunk, so that helps i suppose

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Of course it exists, otherwise it wouldn't be a subject for discussion today. I can picture the HardOCP guys going through the exact same thing we did. A bunch of guys standing around a 7900 benchmarking computer, half of them think the shimmering is horrendous, and the other half can't see it at all. Nothing has changed. And the shimmering wasn't bad enough to stop them from recommending the cards. You don't find that a bit strange?

You missed the whole point probably. Didnt the same guys (Brent & Kyle) "announce" that shimmering was non-existant? Maybe more people should put down their green and red glasses.

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Graphics companies have got to stop with shimmering being acceptable. I even notice it on my PSP. WTF? (btw, I notice that my staircase shimmers a little when I walk up. That might just be the paint though)

Haven't done much research on it and after a week of playing with the PSP I didn't touch it again (not mine, it's my bros but he barely plays it too, we mostly play our DS's). I believe the shimmering effect on the PSP is due to some ghosting caused by the low response rate on the PSP's LCD. Many users have complained about the ghosting and even Firing Squad noticed ghosting on only moderate movement within the system.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Of course it exists, otherwise it wouldn't be a subject for discussion today. I can picture the HardOCP guys going through the exact same thing we did. A bunch of guys standing around a 7900 benchmarking computer, half of them think the shimmering is horrendous, and the other half can't see it at all. Nothing has changed. And the shimmering wasn't bad enough to stop them from recommending the cards. You don't find that a bit strange?

You missed the whole point probably. Didnt the same guys (Brent & Kyle) "announce" that shimmering was non-existant? Maybe more people should put down their green and red glasses.

you missed the whole point of the review. Its about whether 7900 is a good / bad card, not about shimmering. ...

 

[Gstanfor]

I think people would be much better served getting indignant about shader aliasing (which I'm guessing is what most people perceive as shimmering) and unwanted moire/fresnel lens patterns in textures than shimmering. Both harm IQ far more than shimmering could ever hope to.

 

[Pantalaimon]

you missed the whole point of the review. Its about whether 7900 is a good / bad card, not about shimmering.

And what is a review if not about evaluating and stating the good and bad of a card? In this case for some people the shimmering seem to rate a big tick in the bad column, and even the reviewers of that site admits that it exists and that it is bad since previously they thought it iwas a non-issue.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Some NV supporters have flat out said its not there, when in fact it is for me.

HardOCP also had this to say about noise:

The Radeon X1900 XTX emits an annoyingly loud whining drone; the NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX and GT are quiet.

So much for for "the X1900 is quiet" statements. I guess fanboys from both sides of the fence like to gloss over limitations of their vendor of choice.

The thermal characteristics of the G71 line are impressive to say the least. They actually run even cooler than the already cool G70 line.

Yes I tend to agree, but will wait for some real measurements - as hardocp gives totally subjective results and have been a bit lax and opinionated lately. I don't mean that I believe the x1900 is quiet - but not sure I believe that the 7900gtx is totally quiet. This noise heat thing is making upgrading difficult - think that with my next system I will have to invest in H2O cooling (a real quiet form) and than maybe I can just quit thinking about this. Also what makes you state the g70 line is cool, have read about many in the quiet forums that have went for aftermarket coolers (for noise and heat).

 

[framerateuk]

I noticed shimmering while playing Morrowind last night on my 2405FPW.

Saying that, i also notice colour banding on photoshop using certiain lighting filters too.

 

[BFG10K]

This noise heat thing is making upgrading difficult - think that with my next system I will have to invest in H2O cooling (a real quiet form) and than maybe I can just quit thinking about this.

If I didn't have my passively cooled 7800GT I'd snap up a 7900 GTX immediately on account of that cooler.

Also what makes you state the g70 line is cool,

Temperature readings at HardOCP and others.

 

[ronnn]

Yep if you found an exotic passively cooled card, very nice. (H) has called other cards quiet that I have found not quiet - so my trust for them is low that way. I have read several places that the 7800gtx 512mb was not that quiet, but am not sure of any of this anymore - as noise and heat seem to be acceptable to most. I admit to being anal about this. Actually I do not like the way computers in general are going - up power heat and waste. Anyways I am in no hurry as I am currently playing kotar of all things.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: harobikes333
Ackmed, how did you fix the shimmering with your sli'd gtx's...? Did you? And how big of a lcd do you have. I'm planning on a 19in. Should the shimmering affect me if I buy a 7900...?

You cant "fix" it. You can however reduce it. You have to set the drivers to HQ for quality, and set the LOD bias to clamp. That helps, but doesnt fix it. It also puts a serious hit on your frames.

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
And you don't want to accept the fact that the observation of shimmering is relative. I think we have been through this several thousand times.

No, I ado accept that. Ive said that many times. You said nothing has changed, when it has. Some people have flat out said it didnt exist, and that I an others were making it up. Looking thru a microscope while playing games, and that its not a problem. Ending with the classic, "no real hardware review has said anything". Now they have.

Just because shimmering is real, doesnt mean you need to start putting down LCD's again. Im sorry your stuck on an old 19", some of us enjoy big, widescreen gaming.

Originally posted by: beggerking

you missed the whole point of the review. Its about whether 7900 is a good / bad card, not about shimmering. ...

When evaluating a card for purchase, its wise to look at all factors. Just as they pointed out the louder fan on the X1900, they pointed out the much worse shimmering on the 7900's.

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Some NV supporters have flat out said its not there, when in fact it is for me.

HardOCP also had this to say about noise:

The Radeon X1900 XTX emits an annoyingly loud whining drone; the NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX and GT are quiet.

So much for for "the X1900 is quiet" statements. I guess fanboys from both sides of the fence like to gloss over limitations of their vendor of choice.

The thermal characteristics of the G71 line are impressive to say the least. They actually run even cooler than the already cool G70 line.

And just as I said in the post about noice, for me it wasnt louder. My XT never spun up to make it loud. I also said that the XT is louder than the 7800's, just that for me, I couldnt tell the difference. Because I have a well laid out case, with good air flow. They never did back up your claim of it being twice as loud though.

 

[BFG10K]

I agree that we need some good dB numbers for a comparison. This batch of reviews seems to lack them.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: Pantalaimon

you missed the whole point of the review. Its about whether 7900 is a good / bad card, not about shimmering.

And what is a review if not about evaluating and stating the good and bad of a card? In this case for some people the shimmering seem to rate a big tick in the bad column, and even the reviewers of that site admits that it exists and that it is bad since previously they thought it iwas a non-issue.

it was always an issue to some, non-issue to others. in all, it is subjective and well-known. Obviously it isn't a big issue for the reviewers since they end up recommanding the card..

the title of this thread is pointing out only shimmering part of the article rather than the actual result of the article, in which 7900 is a good bang for the buck.

 

[Pantalaimon]

it was always an issue to some, non-issue to others. in all, it is subjective and well-known. Obviously it isn't a big issue for the reviewers since they end up recommanding the card.. the title of this thread is pointing out only shimmering part of the article rather than the actual result of the article, in which 7900 is a good bang for the buck.

And the OP's point is not that these cards are bad. He only points out that the shimmering issue which a lot of people in this forum, including these reviewers in question, previously claimed doesn't exist has now admitted that it does exists very much noticeably. Not to the extent that it makes them not recommend the card but it does exist.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Pantalaimon

it was always an issue to some, non-issue to others. in all, it is subjective and well-known. Obviously it isn't a big issue for the reviewers since they end up recommanding the card.. the title of this thread is pointing out only shimmering part of the article rather than the actual result of the article, in which 7900 is a good bang for the buck.

And the OP's point is not that these cards are bad. He only points out that the shimmering issue which a lot of people in this forum, including these reviewers in question, previously claimed doesn't exist has now admitted that it does exists very much noticeably. Not to the extent that it makes them not recommend the card but it does exist.

The OP's point, to me (much like shimmering is so bad on 7800's to him and X1900XT noise doesn't bother him) is to deter sales of nvidia cards. Why do you think he posted a "Hot Deal" in video, instead of "Hot Deals" forum? Because he thought it would get more coverage in here. The "deal" turned out sour anyway. A typo. He can't make this any more obvious.
Some will believe this, and others will not. Much in the way shimmering is noticeable by some and not by others. IMHO.

 

[lifeguard1999]

In regard to the noise from the latest crop of video cards...

From Guru3d:
7600GT - 48 dB
7900GT - 50 dB
7900GTX - 44dB
X1800GTO - 52 dB
X1900XTX - 50 dB

 

[nib95]

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999
In regard to the noise from the latest crop of video cards...

From Guru3d:
7600GT - 48 dB
7900GT - 50 dB
7900GTX - 44dB
X1800GTO - 52 dB
X1900XTX - 50 dB

Looks like the Gt's a bit of a screamer.
I just emailed Arctic cooling, wanna know if the NV Silencer 5 or Asselero X1 will fit my 7900 GT's.
If not, looks like it's the Zalman VF900 will be the daddy.
Not sure which of the 3 coolers is best.
But I'm sure they'll provide much better temps and OC's then that dreadful puny stock cooler.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: nib95

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999
In regard to the noise from the latest crop of video cards...

From Guru3d:
7600GT - 48 dB
7900GT - 50 dB
7900GTX - 44dB
X1800GTO - 52 dB
X1900XTX - 50 dB

Looks like the Gt's a bit of a screamer.
I just emailed Arctic cooling, wanna know if the NV Silencer 5 or Asselero X1 will fit my 7900 GT's.
If not, looks like it's the Zalman VF900 will be the daddy.
Not sure which of the 3 coolers is best.
But I'm sure they'll provide much better temps and OC's then that dreadful puny stock cooler.

Yes, it does seem relatively loud. Probably due to the single slot cooling and much smaller fan. Would it have killed them to use a larger fan? LOL.