She got a forgivable loan for her business, and her employees hate her for it.

[DrMrLordX]

$28k yearly is nowhere close to a decent wage. When unemployment pays more than their actual wage and they choose the former, it doesn't mean that they are lazy. It means that they are severely underpaid.

Remember, only some of the workers are making that little. If you read the article, some of the workers there make as much as $60/hour, and hours are variable (24-32).

 

[dawp]

What do you make?

I don't thin 28k has been a living wage since at least the 80s if not before

 

[skull]

$28k yearly is nowhere close to a decent wage. When unemployment pays more than their actual wage and they choose the former, it doesn't mean that they are lazy. It means that they are severely underpaid.

Yes it is I not only lived on 28k/yr I thrived on it. 28k isn't enough to live on if you're an entitled brat. I make almost 3 times that now and still live on 20k/yr just because life is not that hard, personally I feel like I live like a king. It also means they're lazy if they want more, they should go earn more, thats what I did.

 

[interchange]

I have no idea what the benefits she offers or the financials of her business. My family's been on the other side of it. We didn't come from means. My Mom, having gone through the journey of caring for my Dad's parents at end of life decided out of compassion to get a loan and build a small assisted living facility. Now, she was a horrible business woman, and that compassion didn't serve business well when a family stopped paying and disappeared while their vulnerable loved one stayed with us. Still, she constantly fought against the perception of being the rich white lady all the while the business being barely solvent, her working 80+ hours every week, never once drawing a paycheck. So many times she had to fire employees for stealing food, TP, etc. After about 10 years she was able to sell the business and I think the net resulted in about $150k. So there was that.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that the issues are likely systemic. Finding a problem doesn't mean it is produced out of malice. For me, the hardest part is the divide between business owner and employee. Yeah, that's heavily influenced by the business culture, but I think the default is rather toxic. If someone has a hard life, and lots of her employees had hard lives fighting themselves to live reasonably on their earnings and care for kids, etc., there is trouble when the source of that hardship is pinned automatically.

Maybe it's just my own fantasy, but I would hope that the thing to shoot for in society is a situation where employees and employers view themselves as partners. That requires operating on shared values.

 

[Blackjack200]

Yes it is I not only lived on 28k/yr I thrived on it. 28k isn't enough to live on if you're an entitled brat. I make almost 3 times that now and still live on 20k/yr just because life is not that hard, personally I feel like I live like a king. It also means they're lazy if they want more, they should go earn more, thats what I did.

What's it like sucking dick for a living?

 

[Jaskalas]

rent - conservatively $500/mo

What magic is that?

 

[Fenixgoon]

What magic is that?

i meant at the low end,. as in, that's the absolute cheapest you could do. will edit to be more clear. live elsewhere, and you'd either be house poor or require roommates (i live in a rural but growing area and my rent for a 1500 sq ft townhome is 1200/mo)

 

[Vic]

Couple things: the "up to" $60/hour is going to include tip income, which isn't happening for these people right now. Very few people are getting spa and massage at this time. Second, this is an affluent part of the Seattle area, near the tech hub in Redmond, and the cost of living is very high. I doubt you could rent a closet for $500/mo.

 

[nOOky]

I feel for her employees, they are in a tough spot, as is she. Being a small business owner is tough, it seems like they are always on the edge of extinction from just one event like this. My wife runs a small business with 5 employees. It is true that you have to factor in local wages, cost of living, what you charge your customers, there are so many factors that determine wages.

I know my wife would be out of business if she were required to pay every employee $15 an hour or more. Typically her employees are single, or using the job as a supplemental income to another higher income spouse etc. Not every job is a job you can live off of and feed a family of four on along with all the costs associated, that's simply impossible. If you think otherwise you can prove your theory by going to a bank asking for a $400,000 loan to start a business because you can answer phones or stand on your feet all day. Then go in as a dentist or lawyer and ask for money to start a practice, which person do you think is going to get the loan?

The true culprit imho is larger businesses and corporations that pay their employees disproportionately low wages to what they make in revenue. Along with the tax advantages they receive it's crazy. Small businesses get screwed by state, local, and federal taxes. There is no way my wife can eliminate those taxes by gaming the system, therefor she actually pays in more taxes per year than Amazon. That's fricken' crazy if you think about it.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I feel for her employees, they are in a tough spot, as is she. Being a small business owner is tough, it seems like they are always on the edge of extinction from just one event like this. My wife runs a small business with 5 employees. It is true that you have to factor in local wages, cost of living, what you charge your customers, there are so many factors that determine wages.

I know my wife would be out of business if she were required to pay every employee $15 an hour or more. Typically her employees are single, or using the job as a supplemental income to another higher income spouse etc. Not every job is a job you can live off of and feed a family of four on along with all the costs associated, that's simply impossible. If you think otherwise you can prove your theory by going to a bank asking for a $400,000 loan to start a business because you can answer phones or stand on your feet all day. Then go in as a dentist or lawyer and ask for money to start a practice, which person do you think is going to get the loan?

The true culprit imho is larger businesses and corporations that pay their employees disproportionately low wages to what they make in revenue. Along with the tax advantages they receive it's crazy. Small businesses get screwed by state, local, and federal taxes. There is no way my wife can eliminate those taxes by gaming the system, therefor she actually pays in more taxes per year than Amazon. That's fricken' crazy if you think about it.

You are talking about a micro business. You are correct when speaking about micro businesses. A small business has TWO defining characteristics. Everyone tends to forget the second one. In addition to having less than 500 employees, it must have at least a million dollars in assets.

 

[Blackjack200]

I feel for her employees, they are in a tough spot, as is she. Being a small business owner is tough, it seems like they are always on the edge of extinction from just one event like this. My wife runs a small business with 5 employees. It is true that you have to factor in local wages, cost of living, what you charge your customers, there are so many factors that determine wages.

I know my wife would be out of business if she were required to pay every employee $15 an hour or more. Typically her employees are single, or using the job as a supplemental income to another higher income spouse etc.

What's the business?

Not every job is a job you can live off of and feed a family of four on along with all the costs associated, that's simply impossible. If you think otherwise you can prove your theory by going to a bank asking for a $400,000 loan to start a business because you can answer phones or stand on your feet all day. Then go in as a dentist or lawyer and ask for money to start a practice, which person do you think is going to get the loan?

I know that there are jobs that don't pay a living wage, but I'm not sure what that thought exercise is supposed to prove.

 

[nOOky]

You are talking about a micro business. You are correct when speaking about micro businesses. A small business has TWO defining characteristics. Everyone tends to forget the second one. In addition to having less than 500 employees, it must have at least a million dollars in assets.

It does, it's a veterinary clinic.

 

[nOOky]

What's the business?



I know that there are jobs that don't pay a living wage, but I'm not sure what that thought exercise is supposed to prove.

It's supposed to debunk the thought that just because you can stand on your feet and work hard all day, your value is not the same as a dentist or other producer who actually have value because of their skill. Literally anyone that's healthy can do manual labor, most everyone can't sedate a person and install a dental implant and replacement tooth for example. I was referring back to the discussion above regarding a living wage.

 

[Blackjack200]

It's supposed to debunk the thought that just because you can stand on your feet and work hard all day, your value is not the same as a dentist or other producer who actually have value because of their skill. Literally anyone that's healthy can do manual labor, most everyone can't sedate a person and install a dental implant and replacement tooth for example. I was referring back to the discussion above regarding a living wage.

No one here is arguing that everyone needs to make what doctors and dentists do, we're saying that workers deserve the dignity of a living wage. I think it's great that you think the people that work for your wife's million dollar business have no value.

 

[Fenixgoon]

It's supposed to debunk the thought that just because you can stand on your feet and work hard all day, your value is not the same as a dentist or other producer who actually have value because of their skill. Literally anyone that's healthy can do manual labor, most everyone can't sedate a person and install a dental implant and replacement tooth for example. I was referring back to the discussion above regarding a living wage.

and yet for all their training, dentist's offices are largely limited to emergency services, while people who stock shelves for grocery stores are considered absolutely essential.

it's called putting things in perspective. yes, there are fewer people who want or are able to be dentists. but when shit hits the fan, you need people to provide food (farm it, grow it, pick it, slaughter it), transport food, and make it available to the rest of society.

if that's not an argument for a living wage, i'm not sure what else is.

 

[nOOky]

No one here is arguing that everyone needs to make what doctors and dentists do, we're saying that workers deserve the dignity of a living wage. I think it's great that you think the people that work for your wife's million dollar business have no value.

Way to twist it around dude. You're so off base it isn't even funny. According to your logic a farmer with $5,000,000 in land should be able to pay his workers hundreds of thousands of dollars. Restaurant owners should be paying their employees $45 an hour. I'll let you take your knowledge of running a business and figure out why what you said is so disingenuous.

 

[nOOky]

and yet for all their training, dentist's offices are largely limited to emergency services, while people who stock shelves for grocery stores are considered absolutely essential.

it's called putting things in perspective. yes, there are fewer people who want or are able to be dentists. but when shit hits the fan, you need people to provide food (farm it, grow it, pick it, slaughter it), transport food, and make it available to the rest of society.

if that's not an argument for a living wage, i'm not sure what else is.

The dentist was an example, use whatever profession you prefer. Whether you like it not, society puts value on people's jobs by deciding how much they will pay for the service they provide. I'm certainly not against people being paid a living wage, but some positions and some employers simply can't. If you read my original post I am completely against larger businesses that are able to provide a living wage not doing it. My comments are in regards to smaller businesses that simply struggle to keep the doors open, especially in these trying times. If you think they can simply bump up the wages for every employee and just charge more for their services, you don't know how it works. That won't work in most cases.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Couple things: the "up to" $60/hour is going to include tip income, which isn't happening for these people right now.

That is correct. The article author didn't see fit to tell us what proportion of those income figures were comprised of tips. Maybe the author didn't even know or think to ask. The owner won't be forced to make up for tips when paying employees at "full" wage by her rescue loans, either. Some of the more-experienced ones might be making $20-$30/hr though, depending on what they do. Wait staff at restaurants certainly have it worse.

 

[pcgeek11]

This is why we need to ditch the "tipping" BS all together. Charge slightly higher for the food or product and be done with it. Either the employer can pay the employees or they cannot. Either way it will work out.

 

[Fenixgoon]

This is why we need to ditch the "tipping" BS all together. Charge slightly higher for the food or product and be done with it. Either the employer can pay the employees or they cannot. Either way it will work out.

while we disagree on probably most things, i'm 100% of this. don't BS the cost. just pay a living wage and let prices reflect that. imagine if every business did that. shocker - we'd all be able to tolerate the higher prices that give the least among us a living wage.

 

[pcgeek11]

while we disagree on probably most things, i'm 100% of this. don't BS the cost. just pay a living wage and let prices reflect that. imagine if every business did that. shocker - we'd all be able to tolerate the higher prices that give the least among us a living wage.

100% this. I agree!

** Hell must be freezing over at this very moment. LOL

 

[DrMrLordX]

This is why we need to ditch the "tipping" BS all together. Charge slightly higher for the food or product and bee done with it. Either the employer can pay the employees or they cannot. Either way it will work out.

That is reasonable. Some still attach tipping to quality-of-service. Realistically-speaking, customers kind of need to tip at least 20% just to let the servers make ends meet. If your table orders light, sometimes you need to tip higher than that.

 

[pcgeek11]

That is reasonable. Some still attach tipping to quality-of-service. Realistically-speaking, customers kind of need to tip at least 20% just to let the servers make ends meet. If your table orders light, sometimes you need to tip higher than that.

I attach crappy service to me not coming back again and not tipping.

Crappy service = Not coming back.
Good service = I'll be back on a regular basis.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Yes it is I not only lived on 28k/yr I thrived on it. 28k isn't enough to live on if you're an entitled brat. I make almost 3 times that now and still live on 20k/yr just because life is not that hard, personally I feel like I live like a king. It also means they're lazy if they want more, they should go earn more, thats what I did.

Not sure what kind of magical land you live in where you pay little to no rent, don't go out to buy food or groceries, don't have to pay the electric/gas/oil bill. No mortgage, no student loans. Then again, you may have been one of the lucky people in a tough economy where their parents provided most of that for you.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Crappy service = Not coming back.

Sometimes you get one bad wait staffer at an otherwise good place, or the management had a bunch of people call out so you get bad service anyway because the person covering twice as many tables is being pulled in too many directions at once.