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She got a forgivable loan for her business, and her employees hate her for it.

I was reading a few comments on Twitter and this one struck me...

"This needs to be permanent. Everyone should have the option of getting $600 per week from the government, along with healthcare & other benefits, that way employers have to pay reasonable wages & treat workers well. Time to shift the balance of power to labor from capital."

I agree that we should treat everyone with respect. But, let's get realistic here. There are so many people today who have this entitled mentality. You just can't take take take without serious financial consequences. Life isn't fair. Get over it. It sucks for sure, but if she had to pay everyone of her employees $50k a year with full health benefits she wouldn't have a business. SHE'D BE OUT OF BUSINESS. My parents were small business owners for 20 plus years. They were always operating on razor thin margins. It was always very stressful. If you've never ran a business you will NEVER understand how hard it truly is. This entitlement mentality that so many people have today is nuts.

Many people who are chilling at home and doing nothing while collecting are going to have a very difficult time when this is all over. If you need the money and out of work then take it. But, do realize that the longer you're on unemployment the harder it will be to go back to work. There are countless studies that show this to be true. When big daddy government starts to open up, and this pandemic fades watch out. IMO, there are going to be a lot of hurting people.
 
They're not working because they aren't essential right? So they will be getting paid by her to stay home but make less than they were before she got the loan. I would be a little pissed too.

Edit: And this isn't a rich versus poor thing. There are plenty of rich people out there taking full advantage of the handouts.
 
balloonshark said:
They're not working because they aren't essential right? So they will be getting paid by her to stay home but make less than they were before she got the loan. I would be a little pissed too.

Edit: And this isn't a rich versus poor thing. There are plenty of rich people out there taking full advantage of the handouts.
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When this "ends" and businesses open up, many will suffer from the fear that this pandemic has caused. Many people aren't going to want to eat at restaurants, go to gyms, spas, get haircuts, etc. I have a feeling that she will be laying off much of her staff in the near future. IMO, many people will be begging for those $12-15 an hour jobs. Its going to get real ugly.
 
The Federal unemployment program ends July 31st, and I think it only goes for a total of 13 weeks per applicant. Let's see how pissed they are when the Feds shut off the spigot.
 
Mai72 said:
What's considered a living wage anyway? $28k yearly seems decent. It depends on what they are doing I guess.
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28k yearly is living like a king if you're a poor college student with 0 responsibility and don't have to pay student loans yet.


28k yearly isn't much when you actually have to provide everything for yourself. that's a little over 2k/mo

rent - on the very low end, $500/mo (oh hey, there's 20% of you're pre-tax earnings). live in a growing area? double that, easily. eventually, you'd have to get roommates. and god help you if you live in SF, LA, or a major downtown metro area (i split a 2BR/2BA apartment in LA, total rent was 2300/mo)

phone and utilities - $250/mo for phone, tv/internet, water/electricity/trash
renter's and auto insurance - $75/mo. i'm ballparking. YMMV.
car payment - $200/mo
gas and maintenance - $200/mo
food, household items - $200/mo
health expenses - $100/mo just for insurance, not actual usage. let's assume a perfectly health person with 0 usage.

so we're at $1525/mo, which is 65% of pre-tax income. this assumes you don't do anything but eat, shit, sleep, and work. no social life. no going out. no hobbies. nothing.

throw in fed, state, and possibly city taxes... and is it any surprise people live paycheck to paycheck?
 
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Wait,so employee's dont get to decide who is laid off? There sure was some misplaced rage a few weeks ago.

I'd also guess spa employees make a good chunk of pay through tips so they are likely making a lot less with just their base pay.
 
LMTs make a third to half of their income in tips, so she's forcing them to work for as much half their regular income when either there are no customers, or they have to touch customers who might infect them.
 
Printed Circuit Bro said:
How do we know she's not paying a living wage? What's the cost of living in the BFE towns they live in?
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Those BFE towns are basically Seattle suburbs. Kind of like living in the Bay Area while not living in San Francisco...you still get the exorbitant rents/real estate prices.
 
Blackjack200 said:
Ahh, yes, unlike the owner who was going to pay them forever.
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She received ~$210k in loans. She can keep paying all 35 of them their full normal wage for 11 weeks. It's not forever, and it's unlikely that she'll be able to devote the entire loan to wages since she may have to cover other expenses. Regardless, the idea is for them to have jobs to go back to after this mess is over instead of making the spa shut down which is likely what would happen without the loan program. I'll take the opportunity to keep my job instead of getting a few months of nice unemployment checks followed by a bitter fight for a new job in the post-covid19 employment market.

Also, unemployment requires you to search for work if you're deemed able. You generally have to certify every week that you tried to find a job. If they can find you a job and you turn it down, you can lose your benefits. There are people hiring in the middle of this mess (such as grocery stores) where, unless you're sick yourself, the state unemployment agency will expect you to get a job. The only way you get out of this is if your employer has put you on furlough with a recall date. Which the spa owner can do now if the state lets her.

If any of those spa employees got connected through the state employment agency to something like a Walmart or a grocery store, they would be expected to forgo the fat unemployment checks and go to work there instead. Maybe they would get more than $13/hr or maybe they wouldn't. I don't know what the grocery stores in the Seattle suburbs are paying right now. Some stores elsewhere are paying hazard pay.

edit: upon reviewing the article more-thoroughly, I came upon this:

Pay among Black-Lewis’ employees — massage therapists, hair stylists and aestheticians — ranges from minimum wage ($13.50 an hour in Washington) up to about $60 per hour. Many work between 24 and 32 hours a week.
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I'm guessing that includes tips? Anyway with that breakdown, it's harder to figure out exactly how long she can keep them employed. She won't be required to replace tip income so that will bring down some of the hourly wage estimates.

Mai72 said:
When this "ends" and businesses open up, many will suffer from the fear that this pandemic has caused. Many people aren't going to want to eat at restaurants, go to gyms, spas, get haircuts, etc. I have a feeling that she will be laying off much of her staff in the near future. IMO, many people will be begging for those $12-15 an hour jobs. Its going to get real ugly.
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I think you're right. And perhaps the spa will shut down anyway. If they have a shot at keeping the spa open, as an employee, I'd want her to take it just so I might have a job while other people were losing theirs. But in the end, it might close anyway. Things are not going to be pretty moving ahead.
 
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Mai72 said:
What's considered a living wage anyway? $28k yearly seems decent. It depends on what they are doing I guess.
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$28k yearly is nowhere close to a decent wage. When unemployment pays more than their actual wage and they choose the former, it doesn't mean that they are lazy. It means that they are severely underpaid.
 
Vic said:
Did you read the article? Those towns are Seattle suburbs.
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The median home price in Woodinville, WA is $849,975. I'm all for helping small businesses but articles like this stink of propaganda. Low wage workers making 13 an hour are somehow defacto lazy bastards.

The same people claiming people were going to somehow force their employer to lay them off are the same people wasting time with this nonsense.
 
In the much broader, philosophical sense, the anecdotal progression of history over the last three years proves something of Marx's prediction that capitalism would destroy itself.

Now -- we're not there yet. But only a half-wit would fail to see how Trump has exploded the myth of the "Wealth Creator" and the idea that money, particularly inherited money, equates with "good genes" and sharp wit.

Some of these people earning $28K to -- wha-wuz-it? -- 50K? -- could be Trumpers. I've seen people in the category of "salon-worker/owner median-income" whine about their tax dollars paying for any kind of welfare. So they side with the "Two-percenters". Even so, the argument that unemployment and higher temporary compensation comes with strings attached, versus the measly wage these people earn in a high-cost-of-living urban area, is indicative of an underlying problem exacerbated by a true national crisis.

Maybe more people will wake up and embrace a sense of class struggle -- seeking their real self-interest through an attitude of belonging to a whole. I've watched this stuff go on for the last thirty years. After this mess is over -- and it's going to be a while, you know? -- there will be some big changes.

I spent half my life in school, foregoing present gratification for higher expectations. Toward the end of my career, I could see there were some very ignorant people running the show. We're living in a world in which Chaos masquerades as Order. I haven't any gripes; my annuity checks will continue until the Republic collapses. But my annual gross income is about the national median for a family of four. Not great; but I can afford to make that run to COSTCO tomorrow to raid the meat counter, before that market, too, shows shortages and a $7 Porterhouse becomes a $20 steak.

$28K/annum? In a Seattle suburb? You have to dig deep for clever tricks and do some careful accounting to make that work at all.
 
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