Seymour Hersh: Most everything we were told about Bin Laden's killing was a lie

[Nebor]

From what little I think I know about it, the stealth technology was just bolt on radar diffusers and sound reduction. I'd be surprised if it was anything new and exciting for the Chinese other than to maybe confirm a few things.

It had a special coating that reduced it's radar signature. That's what the Chinese were so interested in.

 

[glenn1]

Yep. If you believe a corrupt ISI had not only found him, but managed to arrest him without anyone finding out, and then move him into the city so he could happily live there without incident, you're going to believe anything.

What evidence does this guy present to support his claims? Not that I just blindly accept whatever story the government wants to feed us mind you....

Arrest? It's more like OBL was an ally and collaborating with the ISI, if not a de facto asset of theirs.

 

[Humpy]

It had a special coating that reduced it's radar signature. That's what the Chinese were so interested in.

I don't believe the coating is even that special anymore. The concept dates to WW2. Not that I believe anything in this new report, just that it doesn't seem the loss of the helicopter was significant.

 

[Pocatello]

Of course the Pakistani intelligence knew where OBL was.

 

[blastingcap]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/11/opinions/bergen-bin-laden-story-a-lie/

 

[Ns1]

While the story in the OP is most certainly plausible,

The principal claims that Hersh's article makes, which largely rely on the assertions of a single, unnamed, retired senior U.S. intelligence official

does not exactly = credibility

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Seymour Hersh: Most everything I've said in the last two decades was a lie

The administration probably took some liberties with telling the story of what actually happened, but anyone who takes Seymour "we're bombing Iran specifically to start WW3 when Obama takes office" Hersh's word for anything is a loon.

 

[Nebor]

I don't believe the coating is even that special anymore. The concept dates to WW2. Not that I believe anything in this new report, just that it doesn't seem the loss of the helicopter was significant.

I believe it's Nutella spray-painted grey.

 

[yllus]

NBC News appears to be confirming that the way the U.S. learned where Bin Laden was hiding was via a walk-in, and that the Pakistani intelligence service at some level did know that OBL was currently in Pakistan.

NBC News - Pakistanis Knew Where Bin Laden Was, Say US Sources

...

The NBC News sources who confirm that a Pakistani intelligence official became a "walk in" asset include the special operations officer and a CIA officer who had served in Pakistan. These two sources and a third source, a very senior former U.S. intelligence official, also say that elements of the ISI were aware of bin Laden's presence in Abbottabad. The former official was emphatic about the ISI's awareness, saying twice, "They knew."

Another top official acknowledged to NBC News that the U.S. government had long harbored "deep suspicions" that ISI and al Qaeda were "cooperating." And a book by former acting CIA director Mike Morrell that will be published tomorrow says that U.S. officials could not dismiss the possibility of such cooperation.

...

 

[Blanky]

Why use super stealthy blackhawks and leave the wreckage behind if this was a shame raid? I mean sure they might need to keep the image of it being 'secret' alive and maybe not everyone was in the know about it but I would think they would at least get the tail boom taken care of if the whole thing was a ruse even if it was outside the compound

That's what makes their lie so much more believable! You need to look deeper and read between the lines. "Crashing" that stealth blackhawk and letting the pakistanis get it was just a ploy, part of the final act!

The principal claims that Hersh's article makes, which largely rely on the assertions of a single, unnamed, retired senior U.S. intelligence official

So a journalist can just make shit up and claim it's is an unnamed official. Great!

The idea that Pakistan on some level would have cooperated with bin laden is entirely plausible, they have a long history of cooperating with al queda, or at least people in their government. And this is why OBama made the right choice to not tell them about the raid.

 

[Indus]

This should be an oliver stone movie. At least then it would be a little more entertaining just like the JFK assassination theory.

 

[cabri]

Vox article on this BS
Pokes holes in the story so it looks like Swiss cheese

 

[xBiffx]

The administration's story was just at believable as this guy's. Both were fantastic works of fiction worthy of books/Hollywood. We may never know the facts of what happened.

 

[werepossum]

I don't believe 100% of this nor do I believe 100% of what comes out of the government. They are all out to promote themselves.

Pretty much this.

Is this believable vs the official story?

The idea that Pakistan had already arrested OBL and then let him live in this compound stretches credibility to its breaking point.

Yeah, I'd certainly believe that the ISI knew he was there and even that they put him there, but arrested? Not so much.

NBC News appears to be confirming that the way the U.S. learned where Bin Laden was hiding was via a walk-in, and that the Pakistani intelligence service at some level did know that OBL was currently in Pakistan.

NBC News - Pakistanis Knew Where Bin Laden Was, Say US Sources

Is that really different from the White House version? Pretty much everyone agrees that the Pakistanis knew he was there and were protecting him.

The only reason we're in bed with the Pakistanis is as a hedge against Soviet-leaning India. With the Soviet Union gone and India no longer so rabidly anti-West, they make a much better partner. Hopefully we are soon out of Afghanistan and can let China have these bastards.

 

[smackababy]

Are you guys trying to imply the raid, and lead up, didn't take place exactly like it was portrayed in the movies? That girl wasn't the heroine? Chris Pratt wasn't a Navy Seal? I just refuse to believe that.

 

[tweaker2]

So Hersh needs to amp up the sensationalism of his topic at hand to sell more books than if he didn't.

That's American Capitalism at it's finest. Good for him.

As for his accusations, it seems to me it benefits all players involved as it further obfuscates what actually occurred, leaving more questions than confirmations.

In my mind, those gov't agencies involved with Bin Ladin's "alleged" demise couldn't be happier with Hersh's actions. I'd just as soon believe that he got the CIA's blessing before publicizing his "findings" than his accusations being revelations that the players involved wanted to hide things the way he described.

 

[Baasha]

European-Americans are so naive.

Supporting Pakistan for 60+ years with billions in aid year after year while Pakistan have been taking the Washington establishment for a ride all along.

Hilarious!

An agency that created and fostered the growth of the Taliban (Hamid Gul - ex-ISI chief) has its tentacles much farther into the terror networks than the duffers at the CIA know.

It was India's intelligence agency, RAW, that came out with a report at the end of 2003 stating that all links lead to Pakistan and after the battle at Tora Bora, OBL was actually being given sanctuary there.

The "intelligence" of the US agencies took 8 years to figure that out.

Surely, the Pakistanis must have the last laugh.

 

[Jaskalas]

Surely, the Pakistanis must have the last laugh.

Don't they still get our money after harboring Bin Laden?
We might as well be giving foreign aid to Iran.

 

[Newell Steamer]

So, we went from "Obama can't take any credit for the assassination to it was all SEAL Team 6" to "it's all lies" - 4 years later.

Also, this journalists is the be all and end all expert, whereas if it was a story shining a positive light on Obama; it's totally shit and PPPPPFFFFFTTT, what does this stupid journalist know?!?

The situational circumstances (pro Obama = load of shit v. anti Obama = totally true) is glaringly obvious.

 

[yllus]

Is that really different from the White House version? Pretty much everyone agrees that the Pakistanis knew he was there and were protecting him.

The only reason we're in bed with the Pakistanis is as a hedge against Soviet-leaning India. With the Soviet Union gone and India no longer so rabidly anti-West, they make a much better partner. Hopefully we are soon out of Afghanistan and can let China have these bastards.

The White House most certainly hasn't stated that the Pakistani military or intelligence services knew that OBL resided within Pakistan.

India would make for a much more like-minded partner. But as much as it hurts to say this, it makes sense to spend a bit in Pakistan to make sure it doesn't fall into utter anarchy. It's better than the alternative.

 

[werepossum]

The White House most certainly hasn't stated that the Pakistani military or intelligence services knew that OBL resided within Pakistan.

India would make for a much more like-minded partner. But as much as it hurts to say this, it makes sense to spend a bit in Pakistan to make sure it doesn't fall into utter anarchy. It's better than the alternative.

True, but we all know Obama can't say that. Neither could W; it's just not polite at that level of politics.

I'm not at all convinced that Pakistan now is better for us than if it collapsed into utter anarchy.

Well, come to think of it, you're probably right, simply because of the nukes. Its leadership may be thoroughly evil and anti-West, but they aren't stupid enough to nuke India. Plenty of Pakistanis are.

 

[Rakehellion]

- The Pakistani military/intelligence service knew OBL was in Abbottabad
- In fact, Pakistan had captured OBL and put him in Abbottabad themselves
- The USA found out about this by a retired Pakistani military man walking in to the US embassy
- It was agreed upon by the US and Pakistan that OBL was not to be taken alive; the raid must lead to his death
- The only bullets fired on the mission were by the SEAL team; OBL nor any others offered any armed resistance
- No intelligence was captured and loaded up after the raid; the SEAL team simply waited for their ride and then left
- OBL was not buried at sea via the aircraft carrier Carl Vinson; no word on where the body actually is, or if photos exist of it

I already knew that they shot first, asked questions later and desecrated the body as soon as I heard the story.

 

[yllus]

A correspondent for the New York Times is now also echoing the informant angle, and that Pakistan was confining OBL to Abbottabad / running him as an intelligence asset. Brings up an interesting note about how the Pakistani military only showed up at the raid location after U.S. troops had left, too.

The New York Times Magazine - The Detail in Seymour Hersh’s Bin Laden Story That Rings True

...

The story of the Pakistani informer was circulating in the rumor mill within days of the Abbottabad raid, but at the time, no one could or would corroborate the claim. Such is the difficulty of reporting on covert operations and intelligence matters; there are no official documents to draw on, few officials who will talk and few ways to check the details they give you when they do.

Two years later, when I was researching my book, I learned from a high-level member of the Pakistani intelligence service that the ISI had been hiding Bin Laden and ran a desk specifically to handle him as an intelligence asset. After the book came out, I learned more: that it was indeed a Pakistani Army brigadier — all the senior officers of the ISI are in the military — who told the C.I.A. where Bin Laden was hiding, and that Bin Laden was living there with the knowledge and protection of the ISI.

...

I cannot confirm Hersh’s bolder claims — for example, that two of Pakistan’s top generals, Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the former army chief, and Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the director of the ISI, had advance knowledge of the raid. But I would not necessarily dismiss the claims immediately. Hersh’s scenario explains one detail that has always nagged me about the night of Bin Laden’s death.

After one of the SEALs’ Black Hawk helicopters crashed in Bin Laden’s Abbottabad compound, neighbors called the police and reported hearing both the crash and the subsequent explosions. The local police told me that they received the calls and could have been at the compound within minutes, but army commanders ordered them to stand down and leave the response to the military. Yet despite being barracked nearby, members of the Pakistani Army appear to have arrived only after the SEALs — who spent 40 minutes on the ground without encountering any soldiers — left.

...

 

[Jhhnn]

As for his accusations, it seems to me it benefits all players involved as it further obfuscates what actually occurred, leaving more questions than confirmations.

Of course it obfuscates. It's a conspiracy theory. Righties love any conspiracy theory that tends to discredit Obama the way they love their own mothers. Hell, they believe it before they hear it. They treated Clinton & Carter much the same.

 

[Jhhnn]

A correspondent for the New York Times is now also echoing the informant angle, and that Pakistan was confining OBL to Abbottabad / running him as an intelligence asset. Brings up an interesting note about how the Pakistani military only showed up at the raid location after U.S. troops had left, too.

The New York Times Magazine - The Detail in Seymour Hersh’s Bin Laden Story That Rings True

Meh. There's no point in taking any casualties over a dead guy who was a liability anyway. It's not like the Americans planned on staying, either.

If the beloved patriot brass didn't know OBL was there in the first place, they knew it the moment they heard of of the incursion. Finding OBL was the only reason that the Americans would violate the tacit agreement about no ground troops in Pakistan & everybody knew it.

The only reasons we didn't just drone the place were to obtain DNA analysis of the deceased & deny Jihadis the shrine of his grave.