Settle a discussion. Xbox 360 graphics vs High End PC

[hans030390]

The consoles missed DX10. I could see a true high end PC easily having better visuals than a 360.

Then again, if the console is used properly, it's amazing what you can push out of it sometimes.

It all depends on how the hardware is used.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: hans030390
The consoles missed DX10. I could see a true high end PC easily having better visuals than a 360.

Then again, if the console is used properly, it's amazing what you can push out of it sometimes.

It all depends on how the hardware is used.

the PCs don't have DX10 GAMES ... for a couple of years ... so that is an *impossible* comparison

all you will get ... maybe ... beginning with CoH in late-March ... is *DX10 features* on a basically DX9 game.

in a couple of years, we will see the PC pull ahead ... when *FULL DX10 games* are finally released

until then, the consoles have the *edge* gfx-wise

 

[Drayvn]

Do also remember where is the 2xaa or 4xaa that was free for the Xbox360 games on ANY of their new next gen games like GOW, GRAW, RS:V, or stuff like that on 1080i????

I have an Xbox360 and NONE of those games have that...

For me, PC and Xbox360 are neck and neck, there are exactly as many pros and cons for each. If i do remember, with the price of my Xbox360 + 42" Plasma TV + Surround Sound system = £2500 (or $4000-4500)

So in reality with may new PC which i updated it from 1 1/2 years ago which included MB, RAM, GPU, CPU + Dell 22" Widescreen cost me £700 + £250 = £950 ($1800 - 2000) and it was roughly about 2 years before that since i updated and cost me around £1000 (£2000 - 2200).

Well as you can see at most both are compare in cost. So really if you take everything into account to run an Xbox360 at its best it costs around the same reasonably priced and upgraded PC over 4 years.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Drayvn
Do also remember where is the 2xaa or 4xaa that was free for the Xbox360 games on ANY of their new next gen games like GOW, GRAW, RS:V, or stuff like that on 1080i????

I have an Xbox360 and NONE of those games have that...

For me, PC and Xbox360 are neck and neck, there are exactly as many pros and cons for each. If i do remember, with the price of my Xbox360 + 42" Plasma TV + Surround Sound system = £2500 (or $4000-4500)

So in reality with may new PC which i updated it from 1 1/2 years ago which included MB, RAM, GPU, CPU + Dell 22" Widescreen cost me £700 + £250 = £950 ($1800 - 2000) and it was roughly about 2 years before that since i updated and cost me around £1000 (£2000 - 2200).

Well as you can see at most both are compare in cost. So really if you take everything into account to run an Xbox360 at its best it costs around the same reasonably priced and upgraded PC over 4 years.

i find it *very interesting* to hear that from someone who has *both nice systems*

i do see pros and cons of each system

since i do not watch TV ... or movies ... a Giant Plasma or LCD is a 'waste' for me for anything *other* than gaming ... and i have tried PC gaming on a 27" monitor and found it *lacking* preferring the 'intimacy' of 19" CRT or 22" WS gaming

so i have stuck with PC gaming ... and am stretching my rig to 4 years when i upgrade [hopefully] early next year ... in the past 3 years, i have *only* upgraded my GPUs and still have a decent mid-level gaming machine [x1950p].

if you can afford and want *the best* you need TWO systems ... [at least ]

if you cannot afford it, don't pick on the ones who have made a *choice* different from yours

although i really like PC gaming and have *stuck* with it as my gaming platform since the early nineties, i would not hesitate to *switch* to a 360 [or PS3] for fear of *missing anything*

 

[Pugnate]

Originally posted by: wizboy11
While on the Oblivion topic, another thing the PC has going for it is the mods.

You can get high quality texture and LOD mods to make Oblivion look far better on the PC.
And there are countless number of gameplay mods like OOO.

I think that as we see Vista and it's drivers mature that the PC will once again start to pull away from the console in terms of graphics and speed.
If DX10 really runs as well as we've heard (60FPS+ on Crysis@high resolution) then the console might be in for a beating.

Oh yea. I have all sorts of mods on for my Oblivion. Makes it look super sexy.

 

[nitromullet]

We noticed that the Xbox 360 version had better antialiasing since our PC version couldn't enable HDR and antialiasing at the same time. Of course on the PC version, you can get rid of jaggies the old-fashioned way by jacking up the resolution.

Statements like that are ridiculous IMO. First of all, games without AA look like crap. Second, increasing the resolution doesn't substitute for AA, especially with an LCD which you should run at native. If I was doing the comparison they did, I would 1) rated the 360 higher because of the PC's lack of AA ability, 2) used an X1900XTX which supports HDR+AA, and then given the nod to the PC.

..did anyone also notice that the screenshots clearly show the 360 image to be a normal aspect ratio stretched to a widescreen aspect ratio, while the PC is actually a true widescreen aspect ratio...? It's possible that it is actually the fault of the boobs that wrote the article having their 360 set incorrectly though, I'm not sure.

Anyway, as far as the overall comparison goes, I think technically high end (G80 series graphics cards) PC's can probably do more, but I think PC gamers are getting the shaft from developers. Look at the Rainbow Six Vegas benchmarks on AT's main page... No AA on PC version, same with GRAW, and no GoW for PC... For shooters, the PC hasn't been developer priority lately, which IMO is the bigger concern than the graphics capability. WTF is up with all these games coming out that can't do AA on top end ATI or NVIDIA hardware amyway? I don't pay $650 for a graphics card to have my games look like ass, and I personally won't spend a dime on a game that doesn't support AA. This trend of PC gamers not getting any good (quality) new shooters in a while has me seriously contemplating an XBox 360.

OTOH, if your an MMO player, PC is where it's at. ...at least this week. Although, you can play WoW/TBC very nicely at high resolutions on even an X800 series card...

 

[videopho]

Quote:
" but I think PC gamers are getting the shaft from developers. Look at the Rainbow Six Vegas benchmarks on AT's main page... No AA on PC version, same with GRAW, and no GoW for PC... For shooters, the PC hasn't been developer priority lately, which IMO is the bigger concern than the graphics capability. WTF is up with all these games coming out that can't do AA on top end ATI or NVIDIA hardware amyway? I don't pay $650 for a graphics card to have my games look like ass, and I personally won't spend a dime on a game that doesn't support AA. This trend of PC gamers not getting any good (quality) new shooters in a while has me seriously contemplating an XBox 360."


Not counting we're getting screwed by g/c mfg for price gouging and alike (price fixing).
I'm with you on this 100% and if you read my early post on this thread, I'm switching to console (360) and only keep my rig for other non-gaming stuffs for that exact reason.
It's becoming way too expensive a hobby for upgrading new video every 6 months.

 

[Painman]

X1900 outdid the X360 a year ago. That's old news.

Fast forward to now - Landscape LOD textures, Qarl's texture pack, Natural Faces/Beautiful People, Natural Environments, Dark UI, and more...

You can run all of that on that same X1900 and still have a playable game (even with HDR+AA), or watch it get chewed up and spat out on an 8800.

The X360 is a better bang for buck solution, but that wasn't the question...

A fully tricked out copy of OB on a high end rig barely even looks like the same game.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

Don't most graphics-intense console titles automatically switch to lower detail during multi-player mode? (I saw this in the Rainbow Six Vegas review on Gametrailers.com. Do Gears of War/FEAR do this too?)

You could throw that argument in - PC users can keep it cranked up all the way as long as the hardware is good enough. And 1280x720 is not a very difficult resolution to drive for todays GPUs.

 

[videopho]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
Don't most graphics-intense console titles automatically switch to lower detail during multi-player mode? (I saw this in the Rainbow Six Vegas review on Gametrailers.com. Do Gears of War/FEAR do this too?)

No, not Gears of War which has the best looking graphics to date in the 360, imo.

Back on the topics, the PC version of Oblivion though plays with lot of details in one of my rigs but w/o the lagging penalty, especially out in the dungeon. Whereas the 360 version of the game though lacks details but looks gorgeous on my plasma and there is no lagging.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Drayvn
Do also remember where is the 2xaa or 4xaa that was free for the Xbox360 games on ANY of their new next gen games like GOW, GRAW, RS:V, or stuff like that on 1080i????

I have an Xbox360 and NONE of those games have that...

For me, PC and Xbox360 are neck and neck, there are exactly as many pros and cons for each. If i do remember, with the price of my Xbox360 + 42" Plasma TV + Surround Sound system = £2500 (or $4000-4500)

So in reality with may new PC which i updated it from 1 1/2 years ago which included MB, RAM, GPU, CPU + Dell 22" Widescreen cost me £700 + £250 = £950 ($1800 - 2000) and it was roughly about 2 years before that since i updated and cost me around £1000 (£2000 - 2200).

Well as you can see at most both are compare in cost. So really if you take everything into account to run an Xbox360 at its best it costs around the same reasonably priced and upgraded PC over 4 years.

i find it *very interesting* to hear that from someone who has *both nice systems*

i do see pros and cons of each system

since i do not watch TV ... or movies ... a Giant Plasma or LCD is a 'waste' for me for anything *other* than gaming ... and i have tried PC gaming on a 27" monitor and found it *lacking* preferring the 'intimacy' of 19" CRT or 22" WS gaming

so i have stuck with PC gaming ... and am stretching my rig to 4 years when i upgrade [hopefully] early next year ... in the past 3 years, i have *only* upgraded my GPUs and still have a decent mid-level gaming machine [x1950p].

if you can afford and want *the best* you need TWO systems ... [at least ]

if you cannot afford it, don't pick on the ones who have made a *choice* different from yours

although i really like PC gaming and have *stuck* with it as my gaming platform since the early nineties, i would not hesitate to *switch* to a 360 [or PS3] for fear of *missing anything*

My Xbox 360 is only a couple months old, and i only pretty much got it because i knew there were pretty much no games out for the PC for the next few months, and i really wanted to play GOW and PGR3, Test Drive Unlimited.

Now i have found out, Supreme Commander is coming out end of next month W00t. PC Gamer UK just gave it a 90% rating, looks AMAZING!!!! At last some games for the PC.

Again i and other people i think on here, there are definite areas in terms of games where PC anc Console come into it. I would never play a MMORPG or RTS's on the Console but the console i would definitly play driving, sport and simulation games.

Though its a tough choice on FPS's because both excel, well and both!

Also i am a graphics junkie, and need all the bells and whistles on visuals, badly.

Edit: Just read recently the PC Market in games sold has increased at the end of last year, only by a measly 1% but it looks like the slump might be turning into an upturn at last. This is just under $1 Billion, by the way, so i have no idea why developers don't wanna make games for the PC as much as they used to, its still a big market.

 

[MustangSVT]

Originally posted by: CKXP

Seriously though I don't mean to complain but I'm really getting tired of the same old arguments surface over and over again and now smiley faces are also starting to piss me off too lol it doesnt make you cool to use smiley faces guys

lol

 

[Extelleron]

Personally I think the Xbox 360 performance wise is pretty overrated especially when you look at Oblivion. I have an Xbox 360 as well as an 8800GTS PC, but have Oblivion for Xbox 360 only (though I once had it on PC, back with my x1900xt). Visual wise it's just terrible when it comes to seeing objects at long distances and what could otherwise be beautiful terrain views turn out to be ugly and extremely blurry. Grass AND objects pop up right in front of you as the view distance apparently isn't that great. Performance isn't that great, either. I don't see how people say the performance in Oblivion on X360 is so smooth, because I know when I'm in forests or some other areas the game chugs along and certainly can't be anything above 20 FPS. After taking this all into account you also have to remember the 360 version is only @ 1280x720 resolution, which is significantly lower than 1280x1024, the resolution at which X1900/7900 parts can play Oblivion at without issue at the highest settings. If the 360 had to render Oblivion @ 1280x1024 or certainly 1680x1050 or above, performance would be unacceptable.

I'm not trying to say the Xbox 360 isn't a great console, because it is and for $400 there's no better way to play PC+Console games than on the 360. It isn't even possible to create a $400 PC that can run Oblivion, much less at settings that would give you the same quality as the 360 version. However, no one can even pretend that the 360 is more powerful than a X1900XTX/7900GTX PC or offers superior image quality in any scenario to a high-end PC.

 

[Matthias99]

Edit: Just read recently the PC Market in games sold has increased at the end of last year, only by a measly 1% but it looks like the slump might be turning into an upturn at last. This is just under $1 Billion, by the way, so i have no idea why developers don't wanna make games for the PC as much as they used to, its still a big market.

It's may be a $1B market, but that's spread all over the world and across a *lot* of different games and genres. Unless you can make the next World of Warcraft or Half-Life/Doom/Quake or The Sims (or other multi-million-selling blockbuster), it's riskier than console development.

As far as the 360 versus PC -- there's really no question that a PC with current high-end video cards already has more raw horsepower than the XBox360 (which is, IIRC, around a 7900GT in terms of GPU). About the only hardware edge the 360 has is higher memory bandwidth for the CPU, and that developers can write for the exact hardware configuration. But even if developers are somewhat better able to utilize every last bit of performance on the 360, in a couple years even a pretty cheap PC video card is going to beat it in terms of sheer visual capability. PC hardware is just going to keep getting better and cheaper (at least for a few more generations), and you can get much higher-resolution monitors -- does Oblivion on the 360 even run in 1080p?

 

[RobertR1]

The devs having a closed platform to work on tremendously benefits the 360 and helps it overcome the raw power disadvantage when compared to a high end PC. Now couple that with a much lower cost and hassle free (drives, manual tweaks, software compatiability, etc...) and you can see why the general consumer opts for the 360/console over PC gaming.

While it was fun tweaking around with the PC for the past few years I have really become accustomed to the ease of use of the 360. The graphics clearly are not bad either. Majority of my gaming is FPS and sports/racing so the 360 is the ideal fit for me. Not to mention for the $200-300 cost of an upgrade cycle to keep up with the latest and greatest in video card world, I can go buy 5-6 games and actually enjoy the gaming.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Edit: Just read recently the PC Market in games sold has increased at the end of last year, only by a measly 1% but it looks like the slump might be turning into an upturn at last. This is just under $1 Billion, by the way, so i have no idea why developers don't wanna make games for the PC as much as they used to, its still a big market.

It's may be a $1B market, but that's spread all over the world and across a *lot* of different games and genres. Unless you can make the next World of Warcraft or Half-Life/Doom/Quake or The Sims (or other multi-million-selling blockbuster), it's riskier than console development.

As far as the 360 versus PC -- there's really no question that a PC with current high-end video cards already has more raw horsepower than the XBox360 (which is, IIRC, around a 7900GT in terms of GPU). About the only hardware edge the 360 has is higher memory bandwidth for the CPU, and that developers can write for the exact hardware configuration. But even if developers are somewhat better able to utilize every last bit of performance on the 360, in a couple years even a pretty cheap PC video card is going to beat it in terms of sheer visual capability. PC hardware is just going to keep getting better and cheaper (at least for a few more generations), and you can get much higher-resolution monitors -- does Oblivion on the 360 even run in 1080p?

Oblivion on the 360 runs @ 720p, just like any other 360 game. No 360 game runs in 1080p although technically it has the capability to do so. The only thing that runs in 1080p AFAIK are up-scaled DVD's and HD-DVD if you have the add-on player.

The greatest thing about the 360 IMO is the ease of use. There's never anything to worry about, unless your 360 breaks every game will play the same and if there's a problem, it will be universal and an update will be quickly released to fix it. With the PC, I feel like I spend more time fixing problems or fooling around with settings than actually playing games.

 

[videopho]

Quote...
"But even if developers are somewhat better able to utilize every last bit of performance on the 360, in a couple years even a pretty cheap PC video card is going to beat it in terms of sheer visual capability. PC hardware is just going to keep getting better and cheaper (at least for a few more generations), and you can get much higher-resolution monitors"


True but what makes you to think that console developers are going to sit back and let the next PC gen blowing by it?
I do own both platforms and I've seen less and less real PC games that are actually developed for it. In fact it is another way around where PC games are the afterthought from game developers to squeeze out every penny from us. eg. GRAW.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000

I am having a chat with a couple of blokes who insist that the Xbox 360 can match a high end PC's graphics for years to come. Even though I've shown links of the developers of Crysis saying the 360 can't do a DX 10 level of Crysis, they keep insisting it is possible, and they feel that a 360 will basically match a high end PC for years to come.

Their argument is that Oblivion didn't look as good on the 360 as Gears of War. Well that's obviously because one is an open structured RPG and the other is just a FPS.

Anyway your thoughts?

They are sort of right. Console game developers have a stable platform to work on which will not change for couple of years, unlike on the PC. In PC, developers have to sacrifice some features to fit for the lowest end of the market, the integrated graphics market, and the previous generation. In consoles, there is no low-end to worry about.

don't forget optimisations. consistnet hardware leads to better coding.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Edit: Just read recently the PC Market in games sold has increased at the end of last year, only by a measly 1% but it looks like the slump might be turning into an upturn at last. This is just under $1 Billion, by the way, so i have no idea why developers don't wanna make games for the PC as much as they used to, its still a big market.

It's may be a $1B market, but that's spread all over the world and across a *lot* of different games and genres. Unless you can make the next World of Warcraft or Half-Life/Doom/Quake or The Sims (or other multi-million-selling blockbuster), it's riskier than console development.

As far as the 360 versus PC -- there's really no question that a PC with current high-end video cards already has more raw horsepower than the XBox360 (which is, IIRC, around a 7900GT in terms of GPU). About the only hardware edge the 360 has is higher memory bandwidth for the CPU, and that developers can write for the exact hardware configuration. But even if developers are somewhat better able to utilize every last bit of performance on the 360, in a couple years even a pretty cheap PC video card is going to beat it in terms of sheer visual capability. PC hardware is just going to keep getting better and cheaper (at least for a few more generations), and you can get much higher-resolution monitors -- does Oblivion on the 360 even run in 1080p?

From the info i got its $970 million out of the $13.5 Billion in sales.

But do remember its a 3:1 ratio as in all that the Consoles get - Hardware, Software and Acessory sales too. While the PC gets only GAMES sales. So really its quite a bit biased.

All the games i have i run at max res, which is 1080i which if im not mistaken is 720p but just interleaved? DOA4, GRAW, RS:V, TDU, GoW, MotoGP 06, Dead Rising, PGR3, Lost Planet: Extreme Condition are my games collection right now.

But supposedly they are going to support 1080p i just don't know which game will...

 

[Doom Machine]

ugghh, not another one of these discussions again
just play what you want and be happy

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Doom Machine
ugghh, not another one of these discussions again
just play what you want and be happy

Agreed.

 

[BFG10K]

So if that is the case how in the world can you expect Crysis to run on the 360

You can't - Crytek have stated it won't be coming to consoles because they don't have the power to run it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

So if that is the case how in the world can you expect Crysis to run on the 360

You can't - Crytek have stated it won't be coming to consoles because they don't have the power to run it.

didn't they say exactly the same thing about FarCry and the original Xbox?

 

[Nightmare225]

And that was made by Ubisoft. It was a separate game. Separate engine, separate sounds, separate story. An overall worse game.

Crysis, in its pure form on PC, won't ever see the light of day on any console. You can quote me on that.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225
And that was made by Ubisoft. It was a separate game. Separate engine, separate sounds, separate story. An overall worse game.

Crysis, in its pure form on PC, won't ever see the light of day on any console. You can quote me on that.

i can quote you ... sure ...

... but do i believe you?

not where a *buck* is involved

i guess Ubisoft can do it ... again



. . . and i can't imagine the FC *Story* was "worse" on the console
:Q