SETI stops search for alien life.

[waffleironhead]

Well since seti@home and the seti institute are separate budgets and seti@home gets its data from another telescope, the DC project isnt dead.

 

[tcsenter]

Yet, the rich have gotten far, far richer while the average American loses ground.

Duh...as they do in every modern country, there could be no other possibility (and on individual levels, the rich very often do get poorer, while the poor get richer).

 

[Kev]

You are now entering the realm of faith based science. I know it's difficult to accept but humans in any number still have a limited ability. There is no collective mind. As a society we collect information and we learn things however all an infinite number of humans can understand is what the individual can comprehend. You are looking at quantity and saying that creates quality.

Back to the dog. How many would it take to understand a car? With computers how many PCs would you have to hook together to get Skynet?

Do you know what the Principia Mathematica is? What it was intended to do? Let's go with that as a concrete example. Explain how to complete the Principia Mathematica.

An ant can understand what an ant can understand, a dog can understand what a dog can understand and it's the same for people. There is a distinct difference in each case between adding experience and adding the ability to grasp that which cannot be understood by a more elemental brain.

Maybe the human race's current overall level of intelligence is the pinnacle of what evolution can attain. At this point we have eliminated natural selection from the equation, because of technology and medical science. So our species is not going to continue to evolve much, if at all.

With that in mind, you could say that *any* species that evolves to our intelligence level stagnates in its evolutionary development. There would therefore be no possibility of evolving towards a superhuman level of intelligence.

 

[SirStev0]

Thanks, Osama bin Laden.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Maybe the human race's current overall level of intelligence is the pinnacle of what evolution can attain. At this point we have eliminated natural selection from the equation, because of technology and medical science. So our species is not going to continue to evolve much, if at all.

Evolution and natural selection has not stopped for humans. As long as people choose who to have sex, and therefore have children with, the selection process is still ongoing. Genes will continue to be shifted around, and unique mutations will continue to occur. In other words, evolution is happening.

You are now entering the realm of faith based science. I know it's difficult to accept but humans in any number still have a limited ability. There is no collective mind. As a society we collect information and we learn things however all an infinite number of humans can understand is what the individual can comprehend. You are looking at quantity and saying that creates quality.

This is still pretty basic theory of knowledge at this point. I can name thousands of examples where collected data across many minds comes together to create a new set of knowledge that none of the individuals were able to come up with alone. This is really the very basics of how science works, there is nothing fate based about it. Science is not done by a single brilliant scientist sitting in a lab thinking up great things. It mostly done by lots of average people doing boring repetitive tasks that all come together to create something. Most of them do not understand half of what they are doing.

The thing is mankind is a tool maker. We could not kill a mammoth with our hands, so we created the spear. It allowed man to overcome their natural limits. We now do the same thing with our mental limits, I can't understand something, I have tools to assist me. Those tools allow me to overcome my mental limits. As I reach the limits of what those tools let me do I use those tools to create even better tools.

Do you know what the Principia Mathematica is? What it was intended to do? Let's go with that as a concrete example. Explain how to complete the Principia Mathematica.

I know the PM. Of course I can't answer all the questions it raises, but I don't have to. There are people working on that. And some of them have answered some of those questions, and now all mathematicians know those answers as well. It appears that the P=!NP problem might have recently been answered, but last I heard we are still waiting for that to be fully checked.

An ant can understand what an ant can understand, a dog can understand what a dog can understand and it's the same for people. There is a distinct difference in each case between adding experience and adding the ability to grasp that which cannot be understood by a more elemental brain.

You keep spouting tautologies like they are suppose to mean something deep, but ‘a dog can understand what a dog can understand’ contains no actual information. We are arguing that exact point, I say there is no limit to what a human can understand, and you are not saying much at all.

 

[techs]

Perhaps the next step in evolution is thinking machines that can surpass human intelligence?

If so, that may be the natural step for all intelligent species. Invent machines that can surpass native intelligence.

Of course, that makes Terminator or Battlestar Galactica scenarios quite possible. In fact, maybe likely.

 

[5to1baby1in5]

"You know Belarglox, those Earthlings have been pretty determined. From their transmissions, I think they have now reached a level where there are ready to experience the galactic community. Let's initiate contact. "ATTENTION PEOPLE OF EARTH. WE COME IN PEACE AND WISH TO GIVE YOU THE TECHNOLOGY TO CURE DISEASE, STOP AGING, AND ACQUIRE SPACE TRAVEL TO REACH US. WE HAVE....UH...HELLO? ::tap tap tap:: IS THIS SUB-MICRON INTERGALACTIC SUB-SPACE TRANSCEIVER ON? HELLO???? IF YOU IGNORE US, WE WILL TAKE IT AS THE GREATEST OF INSULTS AND OBLITERATE YOUR PUNY ROCK WITH THE TOUCH OF A PANEL. YOU HAVE 24 EARTH HOURS TO REPLY."

I guess we only get the warning shot. I hope someone pays attention to it.

Arquillian battle rules, kid: first we get an ultimatum, then a warning shot, then we have a galactic standard week to respond.

 

[Kev]

Evolution and natural selection has not stopped for humans. As long as people choose who to have sex, and therefore have children with, the selection process is still ongoing. Genes will continue to be shifted around, and unique mutations will continue to occur. In other words, evolution is happening.

If anything, it's the people of lowest intelligence who are procreating more. Ever see Idiocracy?

 

[SMOGZINN]

If anything, it's the people of lowest intelligence who are procreating more. Ever see Idiocracy?

Still evolution, no one ever said it had to make us smarter. Or perhaps we are moving towards a large population die-off where only the smart will survive.

 

[Kev]

Still evolution, no one ever said it had to make us smarter. Or perhaps we are moving towards a large population die-off where only the smart will survive.

Uh yeah, that was the whole point of my original post:

Maybe the human race's current overall level of intelligence is the pinnacle of what evolution can attain

Glad you agree!

 

[ahurtt]

Like someone else pointed out they are just listening. As far as Stfu it's too late. All of our radio signals are out there and there's nothing we can do about it.

They are but they aren't going to get anywhere near any other galaxies any time soon...You figure our galaxy, the Milky Way, alone is estimated to be 100,000 light years across and 1000 light years thick. We didn't start making radio waves until right around the beginning of the 20th century. So our broadcasts aren't even really very far out of our own interstellar neighborhood yet let alone reached any other galaxies. I figure if there is any other "intelligent" life out there capable of hearing us, the time our noise reaches them will probably be long after we're extinct. And it's equally as likely that if SETI ever did turn up anything, it would likewise be nothing more than echoes from the past of a long extinct alien civilization. I think that if we ever do have any hope of connecting with anybody else out there, it's going to be somebody much closer to home than that if we actually ever have any chance of detecting one another while we both out civilizations still exist. If there's any life out there further than the confines of our own galaxy and it is a thriving culture right now, we'll probably never find it. And even if it is somewhere in our own galaxy we may still not find it.

 

[classy]

Perhaps the next step in evolution is thinking machines that can surpass human intelligence?

If so, that may be the natural step for all intelligent species. Invent machines that can surpass native intelligence.

Of course, that makes Terminator or Battlestar Galactica scenarios quite possible. In fact, maybe likely.

The next step for us will be like Caprica

 

[ahurtt]

Still evolution, no one ever said it had to make us smarter. Or perhaps we are moving towards a large population die-off where only the smart will survive.

Possibly but you've got it backwards...watch Idiocracy. The smart people will be the ones driven to extinction.

 

[irishScott]

Maybe the human race's current overall level of intelligence is the pinnacle of what evolution can attain. At this point we have eliminated natural selection from the equation, because of technology and medical science. So our species is not going to continue to evolve much, if at all.

With that in mind, you could say that *any* species that evolves to our intelligence level stagnates in its evolutionary development. There would therefore be no possibility of evolving towards a superhuman level of intelligence.

Natural selection is only one of many things that affects evolution. Random mutation will always be present unless we start practicing highly sophisticated eugenics. Sure evolution has slowed, but it would take far more than we're currently doing for it to stop.

Hell there are a lot of theories that random mutation gave us intelligence in the first place, which then survived via natural selection.

And natural selection is still very much on the table. Tons of major fatal illnesses out there. We've made massive progress against bacterial and to a lesser extent viral infections in the developed world, but in the undeveloped world they are still serious problems, and no one has a cure for cancer yet. It's basically just "attack the tumors and pray you get it all the first time".

In any case, I don't believe the human race is finished in any way shape or form, intellectually or otherwise. It may appear so in the context of a single generation, but evolution takes 10s of thousands if not millions of generations even for small steps under the best of circumstances. We're not going anywhere fast, but we're going somewhere. All anyone can do is do what they can to amplify our understanding of the universe and sustain humanity until such a time that said advancements become apparent.

 

[irishScott]

Possibly but you've got it backwards...watch Idiocracy. The smart people will be the ones driven to extinction.

Not under our current system, in which the smart people lead the dumb people. Not to mention society is getting smarter as a whole with each generation due to more widely available education. Even the hillbilly welfare bums are better educated than a lot of people were 1000 years ago.

 

[Kev]

Not under our current system, in which the smart people lead the dumb people. Not to mention society is getting smarter as a whole with each generation due to more widely available education. Even the hillbilly welfare bums are better educated than a lot of people were 1000 years ago.

George W. Bush was president for 8 years. I'm just sayin'

 

[irishScott]

George W. Bush was president for 8 years. I'm just sayin'

And he's still more intelligent than most. Incompetent and inarticulate, but more intelligent.

 

[JulesMaximus]

SETI has and always shall be your friend.

FTFY

 

[SMOGZINN]

Possibly but you've got it backwards...watch Idiocracy. The smart people will be the ones driven to extinction.

I've seen the movie several times. The anti-vaccers make me think that it might still reverse itself. It seems that the idiots are working harder and harder to kill themselves off.

 

[irishScott]

I've seen the movie several times. The anti-vaccers make me think that it might still reverse itself. It seems that the idiots are working harder and harder to kill themselves off.

This too. The idiots breed other idiots. Most of whom don't vote and few of whom will ever gain enough power or mass organization to do anything meaningful.

Plus there will be another large scale war as soon as someone develops a reliable counter to an ICBM. Guess which section of society is the first to be drafted...

 

[ahurtt]

This too. The idiots breed other idiots. Most of whom don't vote and few of whom will ever gain enough power or mass organization to do anything meaningful.

Plus there will be another large scale war as soon as someone develops a reliable counter to an ICBM. Guess which section of society is the first to be drafted...

Prolifically unfortunately...which was basically the premise of the movie. After a while the dumb people significantly outnumbered the smarter people who tended to breed within their means to support their own offspring which was not at a rate that made their genetic lineage sustainable. And yeah...the movie was a satire but satire does have a basis in reality, albeit exaggerated.

 

[magomago]

Has Folding ever produced any real, tangible results?

The concept is good, but what has it accomplished?





Why? There's no intelligent life there either...

read what i wrote once more

 

[OverVolt]

The thing is mankind is a tool maker. We could not kill a mammoth with our hands, so we created the spear.

Read somewhere that there is a new theory going around that says we were endurance predators. Not the fastest animals on the planet, but the most persistent without a break. We can pick something out like say a lion and just chase and chase and chase him. He can't sprint away without exhausting himself especially with all that fur and then we catch up as a group and beat him up/he collapses.

There is a huge gap in our time history before tools where we were flourishing. We are hairless and the best sweaters so we give off more heat (we hunt better in high temperatures). And we just chase animals to exhaustion. Nothing special just kick ass monkeys. Probably learned to use tools poking at our dead exhausted prey.

 

[BUTCH1]

Prolly was a waste of money anyway, radio signals, like ripples in a pond dissipate and eventually disappear into background noise anyway. The notion that an alien species is now enjoying the Jackie Gleason show is laughable IMO..

 

[silverpig]

Read somewhere that there is a new theory going around that says we were endurance predators. Not the fastest animals on the planet, but the most persistent without a break. We can pick something out like say a lion and just chase and chase and chase him. He can't sprint away without exhausting himself especially with all that fur and then we catch up as a group and beat him up/he collapses.

There is a huge gap in our time history before tools where we were flourishing. We are hairless and the best sweaters so we give off more heat (we hunt better in high temperatures). And we just chase animals to exhaustion. Nothing special just kick ass monkeys. Probably learned to use tools poking at our dead exhausted prey.

Born to Run. It's called persistence hunting. If I won the lotto tomorrow, I'd train for a year, then try it out. I'd LOVE to do something like that.