Sessions Says 'Zero Tolerance' For Illegal Border Crossers, Vows To Divide Families

[Jhhnn]

Won't someone please cry a tear for Big Agra and their lack of workers? *sniffle*

Meanwhile, when that wool is pulled back:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/31/agribusiness-exploitation-undocumented-labor



Now back to the wringing of hands over the plight of poor poor BigAgra and their gravy train. Back to ramblings about "jobs Americans won't do" (for peanuts and shit conditions) how no country on earth can feed itself without Mexico next door -an astounding trick of geography- and how no one can afford food IF blah de blah, just like how your own job is based on no one affording the product you pull fully formed out of the ground, unless your boss pays you shit and works you from before sunup to long past sundown. You know, universal truths and all...

Dead link.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Dead link.

Just tried it and it worked ok.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Cruel policy for cruelty's sake alone. This won't stop people from coming.

"I DEMAND that when I illegally cross a border to a country that I am not a citizen to that they give me everything that I want!"

Only in 'Merica will intelligence seek that level of low

 

[MrSquished]

"I DEMAND that when I illegally cross a border to a country that I am not a citizen to that they give me everything that I want!"

Only in 'Merica will intelligence seek that level of low

Not splitting up families is not getting everything they want or even close. That's just basic human decency, something which many on the right seem to lack.

 

[K1052]

"I DEMAND that when I illegally cross a border to a country that I am not a citizen to that they give me everything that I want!"

Only in 'Merica will intelligence seek that level of low

That's quite a straw man to deploy on behalf of a cruel yet ineffective policy.

 

[Victorian Gray]

"I DEMAND that when I illegally cross a border to a country that I am not a citizen to that they give me everything that I want!"

Only in 'Merica will intelligence seek that level of low

Keep fighting the War on Straw. You're doing a wonderful job.

 

[brycejones]

"I DEMAND that when I illegally cross a border to a country that I am not a citizen to that they give me everything that I want!"

Only in 'Merica will intelligence seek that level of low

Hey tajbot how are you doing?

 

[glenn1]

Not splitting up families is not getting everything they want or even close. That's just basic human decency, something which many on the right seem to lack.

Most countries would land mine their borders and families would be split up in an entirely different sense.

 

[MrSquished]

Most countries would land mine their borders and families would be split up in an entirely different sense.

As much as I criticize the system here I'm pretty sure we are way beyond that and have evolved to a far more superior position in that regard.

 

[Jhhnn]

Migrant farm workers come from some of the poorest parts of Mexico. I mean dirt fucking poor. They wouldn't come north to work half the year if it wasn't a better opportunity than they could find at home. It's actually a traditional way of life going back at least to the 1930's.

Saving their money & the exchange rate for the dollar & the peso lets many of them support their families & survive back home over the winter on what work they can find. Then they do it again next year. It gives them better lives or they wouldn't do it. A porous border facilitated it. Better opportunities in Mexico means fewer will do it and even fewer want to brave a beefed up border.

The shortage of labor hasn't really responded well to higher wages. The way agribusiness responds to it is with greater mechanization & alternate crops.

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/

So what are we accomplishing? I mean, if it's an opportunity for these folks that Americans don't really want, God bless 'em & let 'em have it. Or will the GOP succeed in turning more Americans back into field hands? Americans have been doing what they can to get out of that line of work for generations.

 

[glenn1]

Migrant farm workers come from some of the poorest parts of Mexico. I mean dirt fucking poor. They wouldn't come north to work half the year if it wasn't a better opportunity than they could find at home. It's actually a traditional way of life going back at least to the 1930's.

Saving their money & the exchange rate for the dollar & the peso lets many of them support their families & survive back home over the winter on what work they can find. Then they do it again next year. It gives them better lives or they wouldn't do it. A porous border facilitated it. Better opportunities in Mexico means fewer will do it and even fewer want to brave a beefed up border.

The shortage of labor hasn't really responded well to higher wages. The way agribusiness responds to it is with greater mechanization & alternate crops.

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/

So what are we accomplishing? I mean, if it's an opportunity for these folks that Americans don't really want, God bless 'em & let 'em have it. Or will the GOP succeed in turning more Americans back into field hands? Americans have been doing what they can to get out of that line of work for generations.

We're already greatly expanding the H-2A visa program and have for years so try again. No one here is complaining about people who immigrate via legal means like legal seasonal farm workers. We hugely oppose those who don't come via legal means and their apologist/enablers like you who are too chickenshit to change the law while directly undermining our laws when it suits your political purposes.

https://www.epi.org/blog/h-2a-farm-guestworker-program-expanding-rapidly/

 

[Jhhnn]

We're already greatly expanding the H-2A visa program and have for years so try again. No one here is complaining about people who immigrate via legal means like legal seasonal farm workers. We hugely oppose those who don't come via legal means and their apologist/enablers like you who are too chickenshit to change the law while directly undermining our laws when it suits your political purposes.

https://www.epi.org/blog/h-2a-farm-guestworker-program-expanding-rapidly/

Wah-wah-wah. If the "program" worked well there wouldn't be a labor shortage.

How hard is that? Doesn't fit with your version of reality at all, does it?

Maybe there are unforeseen consequences to having your way over something you really didn't know jack shit about in the first place. It's what happens when reality intrudes upon idiotic ideology.

 

[glenn1]

Wah-wah-wah. If the "program" worked well there wouldn't be a labor shortage.

How hard is that? Doesn't fit with your version of reality at all, does it?

Maybe there are unforeseen consequences to having your way over something you really didn't know jack shit about in the first place. It's what happens when reality intrudes upon idiotic ideology.

So because you believe there's a "labor shortage" that we should not enforce our immigration laws? That's like saying because some people still drive over the speed limit or that people get arrested for "driving while black" that we shouldn't enforce any traffic laws. Hell, have you even stopped to rationalize why we have laws in the first place and why we shouldn't just advocate to arbitrarily not follow them?

 

[K1052]

We're already greatly expanding the H-2A visa program and have for years so try again. No one here is complaining about people who immigrate via legal means like legal seasonal farm workers. We hugely oppose those who don't come via legal means and their apologist/enablers like you who are too chickenshit to change the law while directly undermining our laws when it suits your political purposes.

https://www.epi.org/blog/h-2a-farm-guestworker-program-expanding-rapidly/

The H-2A program expanded dramatically over the last decade, that much is true. However at present congress has not waived (and Trump has not asked them to) the cap as done in past years and the government changed how visas are doled out (first come first serve only) which has resulted in dramatic labor shortfalls across a variety of industries.

Take a look around at some of the recent stories on Trump voting small biz owners who can't get the seasonal labor they rely on especially amid a tight labor market in the US. It's a quickly growing genre of reportage.

 

[glenn1]

The H-2A program expanded dramatically over the last decade, that much is true. However at present congress has not waived (and Trump has not asked them to) the cap as done in past years and the government changed how visas are doled out (first come first serve only) which has resulted in dramatic labor shortfalls across a variety of industries.

Take a look around at some of the recent stories on Trump voting small biz owners who can't get the seasonal labor they rely on especially amid a tight labor market in the US. It's a quickly growing genre of reportage.

That's all well and good and completely irrelevant to the thread. The government could expand the H-2A program a thousand-fold (and I think expansion should be done) or any other visa program and yet you'd still have people like Jhhnn arguing we shouldn't enforce the immigration laws that remained. Unless and until we correct that basic and fundamental issue then it won't really matter what we do; it's not about whether we let in 100k seasonal H-2A workers a year or 2 million.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

That's all well and good and completely irrelevant to the thread. The government could expand the H-2A program a thousand-fold (and I think expansion should be done) or any other visa program and yet you'd still have people like Jhhnn arguing we shouldn't enforce the immigration laws that remained. Unless and until we correct that basic and fundamental issue then it won't really matter what we do; it's not about whether we let in 100k seasonal H-2A workers a year or 2 million.

I think the idea that most moderate liberals have is, if we've already fucked things up so much that we have entire families here undocumented, don't shaft them by sending some/all somewhere they have no relations with, and haven't for over half a decade. TBH I'd be far more comfortable with a complete citizenship for all immigrants that can prove they've been here for 3+ years, as of *insert date*, then actual enforcement after that. This dumb piecemeal 'you stay, you go' we have now is stupid, and ripping families apart due to us finally deciding to enforce a rule is like a parent ignoring you not cleaning your room after telling you 1-9 times, then beating you the 10th time.

Find a compromise that doesn't make us look like drunken buffoons and press on.

 

[K1052]

That's all well and good and completely irrelevant to the thread. The government could expand the H-2A program a thousand-fold (and I think expansion should be done) or any other visa program and yet you'd still have people like Jhhnn arguing we shouldn't enforce the immigration laws that remained. Unless and until we correct that basic and fundamental issue then it won't really matter what we do; it's not about whether we let in 100k seasonal H-2A workers a year or 2 million.

If H-2As are being discussed it's not irrelevant. If you are going to talk about the program having actual information about what's happening is good.

 

[dainthomas]

So because you believe there's a "labor shortage" that we should not enforce our immigration laws? That's like saying because some people still drive over the speed limit or that people get arrested for "driving while black" that we shouldn't enforce any traffic laws. Hell, have you even stopped to rationalize why we have laws in the first place and why we shouldn't just advocate to arbitrarily not follow them?

Unemployment is about as low as it's possible to be (thanks Obama!), so where are the hundreds of thousands of farm hands going to come from?

Too bad they're not all migrating from Trump-approved countries like Sweden or Denmark. Republicans would doubtless find the means to expand the H-2A program were that the case.

 

[K1052]

Find a compromise that doesn't make us look like drunken buffoons and press on.

Compromise doesn't secure Republican primary votes. Our entire country is basically held hostage on innumerable issues by a small slice of the electorate.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

So because you believe there's a "labor shortage" that we should not enforce our immigration laws? That's like saying because some people still drive over the speed limit or that people get arrested for "driving while black" that we shouldn't enforce any traffic laws. Hell, have you even stopped to rationalize why we have laws in the first place and why we shouldn't just advocate to arbitrarily not follow them?

I'll take a shot at it. We want our idiotic immigration laws reformed to meet the reality that exists today. The immigrants are already here, it's time to stop pretending that we can get rid of them. Border security is good for the country, but the GOP doesn't intend to successfully overhaul the immigration system (something that has been necessary since Reagan) they only intend to provide symbolic resistance to new entry and lip service about breaking families up.

I'm very familiar with the immigration process, I'm a first generation Mexican-American citizen. My entire family from both sides has had to go through the process to get residency or citizenship. The system is fucked beyond belief and completely saturated and overwhelmed. It needs significant infrastructure overhaul and an update involving modern technology badly. The reason people come here illegally is because the waiting time for approval and processing is years, and a lot of the people fleeing border towns or cartel ridden areas don't have years to spare. I still have family in Reynosa and I'm very familiar with how bad the violence and extortion situation is down there. You either become a criminal when asked to, or you lose family members, it's a real simple situation. I don't blame a single person that decides to flee before their green card gets approved. When you can't go to the super market without seeing a machine gun show down in the streets the idea of fear is changed, they don't fear what will happen to them if caught here.

It's very easy to sit on your side of the fence and claim moral superiority and argue the rule of law when it's not your family at risk. We're not apologists, we're realists who see that the rule of law can no longer be enforced as it is. Instead of getting pissy about a situation that is now impossible to fix with the current set of immigration laws we have in place, we just want to see both parties engage in meaningful and honest discussion about how to address the already overwhelming amount of undocumented people living here, and how to move forward accepting that these people are now part of the country. When the law doesn't work, you have to ask why does the law not work. If enforcement is impossible, then perhaps its time to rewrite the law so that enforcement becomes an actual possibility?

 

[Jhhnn]

So because you believe there's a "labor shortage" that we should not enforce our immigration laws? That's like saying because some people still drive over the speed limit or that people get arrested for "driving while black" that we shouldn't enforce any traffic laws. Hell, have you even stopped to rationalize why we have laws in the first place and why we shouldn't just advocate to arbitrarily not follow them?

I've done no such thing. I advocate that the law match reality rather than a delusional ideological template of making America White again.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'll take a shot at it. We want our idiotic immigration laws reformed to meet the reality that exists today. The immigrants are already here, it's time to stop pretending that we can get rid of them. Border security is good for the country, but the GOP doesn't intend to successfully overhaul the immigration system (something that has been necessary since Reagan) they only intend to provide symbolic resistance to new entry and lip service about breaking families up.

I'm very familiar with the immigration process, I'm a first generation Mexican-American citizen. My entire family from both sides has had to go through the process to get residency or citizenship. The system is fucked beyond belief and completely saturated and overwhelmed. It needs significant infrastructure overhaul and an update involving modern technology badly. The reason people come here illegally is because the waiting time for approval and processing is years, and a lot of the people fleeing border towns or cartel ridden areas don't have years to spare. I still have family in Reynosa and I'm very familiar with how bad the violence and extortion situation is down there. You either become a criminal when asked to, or you lose family members, it's a real simple situation. I don't blame a single person that decides to flee before their green card gets approved. When you can't go to the super market without seeing a machine gun show down in the streets the idea of fear is changed, they don't fear what will happen to them if caught here.

It's very easy to sit on your side of the fence and claim moral superiority and argue the rule of law when it's not your family at risk. We're not apologists, we're realists who see that the rule of law can no longer be enforced as it is. Instead of getting pissy about a situation that is now impossible to fix with the current set of immigration laws we have in place, we just want to see both parties engage in meaningful and honest discussion about how to address the already overwhelming amount of undocumented people living here, and how to move forward accepting that these people are now part of the country. When the law doesn't work, you have to ask why does the law not work. If enforcement is impossible, then perhaps its time to rewrite the law so that enforcement becomes an actual possibility?

Thank you. Well said. It needs to be understood that keeping the system screwed up & the public irrational serves the ends of GOP politicians entirely. They get to stoke White fear every election, keep 'em voting for that good old trickle down feeling.

 

[Incorruptible]

Are they going on welfare or stealing our jerbs? So confusing.

Both.

 

[K1052]

Seems we're making good progress in writing another soon to be infamous chapter of US history:

The anguish that parents communicated in Morgan’s courtroom, and the spectacle of dozens of migrants being convicted and sentenced en masse, in proceedings lasting just a few minutes and with only the most perfunctory legal representation, has shocked courthouse employees. And not just in Brownsville. Taking photographs of federal court proceedings is strictly forbidden. But in the federal courthouse in Pecos, Texas, someone apparently felt so bad about the new policies that they secretly shot a photo — obtained by The Intercept and published at the top of this page — of dozens of immigrants clogging a court in orange jumpsuits.

But most Americans do not attend these courts. They live far from the border, and Sessions’s new “zero tolerance” plan seems distant and theoretical. On the border itself, however, the new policy feels close and horribly real. Sessions’s policy of deliberately breaking up families is a new low in U.S. border policy. Today “zero tolerance” is playing out from Texas to California. In Brownsville, it’s driving Judge Morgan to distraction.

Another parent who appeared in Morgan’s court was from a Central American country that provides no meaningful protection to women and children who are victims of homicidal domestic violence. She asked for her identity to be concealed, because she fears retaliation by the U.S. government. We will call her Delia. Before fleeing her country, she was for years beaten up, cut, assaulted with guns, and threatened with death by her partner. He also threatened to kill their young child. When she hid in another city, he found her and dragged her home.

Delia said she fled her country weeks ago and went on the road to Mexico, eventually crossing the Rio Grande with her child on an inner tube. She saw three Border Patrol agents watching her and floated in their direction, so she could turn herself in.

Delia said that when she arrived later that night at the hielera — the Border Patrol processing office — she told the officers that she and her child needed asylum. She described the beatings and assaults and death threats. “Oh, come on!” she said the officers snickered. “You and everyone else with that old story!”

“You’re going to be deported,” she remembers them telling her. “And your child will stay here.” The next morning, the child was taken. Delia fell on her knees during the removal, wailing and begging not to be separated. Officials looked on indifferently, she said, as her child screamed incessantly.

When I spoke with Delia a few days later, she was in ICE detention, without her child, hours from Brownsville, and appeared to be in shock. She was having problems concentrating and answering simple questions. She wept constantly. She said she was wracked with fear and worried about her child, with whom she has had no contact since their separation. She could not imagine being deported back to her home country. “He will kill me there,” she said. “He will kill both of us.” Neither could she imagine her child being left behind in America. Her mind seemed shattered.

https://theintercept.com/2018/05/29/zero-tolerance-border-policy-immigration-mass-trials-children/

 

[zinfamous]

Most countries would land mine their borders and families would be split up in an entirely different sense.

OK, I'll bite. I know of one country with landmines across its border, and it sure as shit ain't to prevent people from getting in.

Can you name a few of these "most countries" that you are referring to?