Sequestration... more doom and gloom?

[Matt1970]

Umm do you realize that raising the Capital gains rates would be the HIGHEST revenue generator?

Really? Where do you get that statistic from? The only time it was really raised revenue from the tax plummeted.

The one time the capital gains tax rate was increased since 1981 was in 1987, from 20% to 28%. From 1987-90, capital gains revenue fell from $33.7 billion to $27.8 billion, with an average annual decline of -12.8%.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/capital-gains-tax-revenue-risen-233200669.html

 

[PokerGuy]

Umm do you realize that raising the Capital gains rates would be the HIGHEST revenue generator?

Last I checked, each time the capital gains tax was raised, we've seen a reduction in revenue. Oh, and capital gains tax wouldn't just hit the 1%, it would actually hit many others (got any mutual funds or investments?).

The whole 1% nonsense is just drivel to fire up the lefty base, it has no relevance to the real issues at hand.

 

[Ausm]

Rightists read this report...

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2207372

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Rightists read this report...

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2207372

What pray tell does income inequality have to do with sequestration? Only braindead idiots wouldn't realize that those who have money invest it so of course they will receive more in capital gains than the average person. Take average middle class worker who has a 401k, they receive more return on their money than someone who has a savings account or no savings at all.

The government spends far more than it should and spending cuts need to be done.....across the board including the defense budget.

 

[Ausm]

What pray tell does income inequality have to do with sequestration? Only braindead idiots wouldn't realize that those who have money invest it so of course they will receive more in capital gains than the average person. Take average middle class worker who has a 401k, they receive more return on their money than someone who has a savings account or no savings at all.

The government spends far more than it should and spending cuts need to be done.....across the board including the defense budget.

I was answering the other person's question.

 

[PokerGuy]

Rightists read this report...

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2207372

Interesting.... so now that you've been shown that the "tax the 1% more to cover the deficit" is complete drivel, you're switching gears to income inequality -- which has nothing to do with the topic at hand. If you want to argue that we need higher capital gains taxes to redistribute the wealth from one group to another, that's a completely different discussion.

 

[Doppel]

The whole thing is proof positive that the country's leadership is patently inept. I hope it happens and everybody in DC is voted out. I also hope pigs fly and unicorns visit the earth.

I will be shocked if they don't come up with a last minute "fix". This is all a bunch of nonsense.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Listening to a local talk radio show here in Nashville I heard a good idea. The feds spend $8000 per student aid package in college aid. This is $175 billion per year. Just cut that in half and be done with it. How many people need a degree in ancient latin drawing technology anyway. Of course if this happened there would not be enough reason to get political points from the obama blame game.

This political posturing is growing very tiresome.

That would be an incredibly stupid move. Let the market push people into degrees of a particular type; if individuals go against this, then that is the cost of freedom of choice. Keep in mind that no one can say what a degree will lead to; I for one would hate to bet on the wrong horse 🙂

 

[Ausm]

Interesting.... so now that you've been shown that the "tax the 1% more to cover the deficit" is complete drivel, you're switching gears to income inequality -- which has nothing to do with the topic at hand. If you want to argue that we need higher capital gains taxes to redistribute the wealth from one group to another, that's a completely different discussion.

Umm it's really not that hard to equate the income inequality generated BECAUSE of the low Capital gains rate might actually generate an increadible amount of revenue back to the Treasury if reinstated.

 

[sunzt]

The righties and the lefties have points in this disucssion, but people are failing to see the details.

When compared to the overall federal budget, the sequester will do near nothing to dent it, and does not touch the biggest entitlement spending from medicare/aid and SS. More cost controls are needed in those areas, and this is where the greatest cost savings can be achieved; not in the agencies with tiny budgets where you see miniscule impact in overall budget, but highest impact on communities and services.

Since most agencies have much smaller budgets than the DoD, medicare/aid, and SS the cuts will disproportionally hurt them more. When compared to an agency's budget and plans which is a mere fraction of some of the other larger agency's budgets, a 10% cut can seriously affect employment and reduce staff. For example, an agency or program with a 100M budget that is already understaffed and under budgeted will face significant delays, staff layoffs, delays in infrastructure (IT or otherwise) improvements and security updates. These also affect the economy in the local areas as well. DoD base cuts and closing down national parks affect local community economies much more than shaving off a large amount of cuts in medicare/aid would. Also, there is no reason that cuts should be spread equally through all agencies. FDA, ICE, and similar essential services should not be subject to the same priority as say Arts and Humanities programs.

Also, many agencies may not be able to complete current programs or projects on time with this cuts. This would require them to either delay or reduce the scope of the work. For many contract setups, this would require re-negotiations and penalties for changing work, which end up to $$ paid to the contractor.

 

[evident]

For all the civilians on my base: sequestration = furloughs = we all lose 1/5th of our pay.

^^^^^^

sequestration is going to hurt alot of middle class americans, and congress doesn't give two fucks.

 

[Oldgamer]

This is beyond moronic. This is something like the nineth fiscal cliff type crisis Congress has caused since the GOP took control of the House in 2010. And again, this is self-imposed and entirely preventable/avoidable. Both sides acknowledge the results will be diasterous, but noone even suggests the most reasonable solution-repeal sequestration.

As usual the GOP is using this as leverage to demand cuts and reform on social security and medicaid and other hard hitting heavy handed demands on the poor. This is the wrong way to do this, and will cause an already fragile economy to lose any ground gained from the 2007-2008 economic collapse. It is disturbing that this has now become a regular way to do business and negotiate by the GOP. Ultimately they live in a bubble, and these effects that will take place if the sequester happens won't affect them personally. Just us peons and the majority of working Americans.

Like the federal meat inspectors example: If they can't inspect meats and meat products to ensure safety, then any and all meat products get put on hold and they don't get shipped out. Thereby causing a shortage, and then what is left on the shelves that has been approved safe now has a huge price increase because of the demand for it.

There are so many things that can be affected people are ignorant to the scope of it.

But once it does happen, and people start feeling some real pain, guess who they are gonna blame? The GOP.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The righties and the lefties have points in this disucssion, but people are failing to see the details.

When compared to the overall federal budget, the sequester will do near nothing to dent it, and does not touch the biggest entitlement spending from medicare/aid and SS. More cost controls are needed in those areas, and this is where the greatest cost savings can be achieved; not in the agencies with tiny budgets where you see miniscule impact in overall budget, but highest impact on communities and services.

Since most agencies have much smaller budgets than the DoD, medicare/aid, and SS the cuts will disproportionally hurt them more. When compared to an agency's budget and plans which is a mere fraction of some of the other larger agency's budgets, a 10% cut can seriously affect employment and reduce staff. For example, an agency or program with a 100M budget that is already understaffed and under budgeted will face significant delays, staff layoffs, delays in infrastructure (IT or otherwise) improvements and security updates. These also affect the economy in the local areas as well. DoD base cuts and closing down national parks affect local community economies much more than shaving off a large amount of cuts in medicare/aid would. Also, there is no reason that cuts should be spread equally through all agencies. FDA, ICE, and similar essential services should not be subject to the same priority as say Arts and Humanities programs.

Also, many agencies may not be able to complete current programs or projects on time with this cuts. This would require them to either delay or reduce the scope of the work. For many contract setups, this would require re-negotiations and penalties for changing work, which end up to $$ paid to the contractor.

Most any department can trim 5% from their budget without hurting operations. 10% can cause some pain in functionality.

 

[EagleKeeper]

As usual the GOP is using this as leverage to demand cuts and reform on social security and medicaid and other hard hitting heavy handed demands on the poor. This is the wrong way to do this, and will cause an already fragile economy to lose any ground gained from the 2007-2008 economic collapse. It is disturbing that this has now become a regular way to do business and negotiate by the GOP. Ultimately they live in a bubble, and these effects that will take place if the sequester happens won't affect them personally. Just us peons and the majority of working Americans.

Like the federal meat inspectors example: If they can't inspect meats and meat products to ensure safety, then any and all meat products get put on hold and they don't get shipped out. Thereby causing a shortage, and then what is left on the shelves that has been approved safe now has a huge price increase because of the demand for it.

There are so many things that can be affected people are ignorant to the scope of it.

But once it does happen, and people start feeling some real pain, guess who they are gonna blame? The GOP.

Using your meat inspector example;if one was to go to each office and ask how they could same 10% of the costs with a5% reward; you would have multiple suggestions.

People know what they are capable of; were the wasted effort/time is. If put tothe task; they can also come up with work-a rounds.

One has to use the proper carrot vs a stick.

 

[Nintendesert]

^^^^^^

sequestration is going to hurt alot of middle class americans, and congress doesn't give two fucks.

They got their pay raise though. 🙄


Federal workers have been working with a pay freeze for a few years now and don't exactly make a ton of money as it is.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

This whole doom and gloom is rather pathetic at this point.

Yeah 100 billion less in spending increases over 8 years will utterly destroy the defense industry.

Bring it on....and maybe, just maybe, Dems and Reps and Obama will be more willing to work with each other next time.

 

[sunzt]

The company I worked for in '08 cut it's workforce by 10% and furloughed employees every other Friday (10% cut in wages).

Initially it sucked, but we got used to having every other day off. So it was a trade-off. Of course, I had to spend less.

 

[Ausm]

They got their pay raise though. 🙄


Federal workers have been working with a pay freeze for a few years now and don't exactly make a ton of money as it is.

Wages have been pretty much stagnant for the Middle class for quite a while now.

 

[Oldgamer]

Using your meat inspector example;if one was to go to each office and ask how they could same 10% of the costs with a5% reward; you would have multiple suggestions.

People know what they are capable of; were the wasted effort/time is. If put tothe task; they can also come up with work-a rounds.

One has to use the proper carrot vs a stick.

I agree, but all of that takes time over many many different areas. So the hit from the sequester will hit long before they can agree on doing the things you suggest and implementing it.

By then the damage is done to our economy. At this point it simply isn't worth going this route. This isn't a game to monkey around with our economy like this, not to mention how we are being perceived by other countries right now, and looking very unstable.

 

[Oldgamer]

Wages have been pretty much stagnant for the Middle class for quite a while now.

Yea, my next door neighbor works for the government, she is in health and human services, and she said they are overwhelmed, understaffed and overworked right now. She fears things will get much much worse.

 

[michal1980]

I like it because it would be 90% cuts would be ones that the Republicons would hate and also in recent polling the Republicans will own the fallout of millions losing their jobs because of their inaction.

Case in point, the HOR is on vacation right now as this yet another prefabricated crisis is bearing down on us.

Yes rabid Rightists in here...you WILL own it.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/02/sequestration-poll-republicans-to-be-blamed-most-87914.html

http://www.people-press.org/2013/02...uck-four-in-ten-say-let-the-sequester-happen/

Also in this link a MAJORITY of Americans favor a balanced approach of more revenue and cuts.

There's a reason Rightists why your party is in the shitter.

Already got your tax increase this year.


MSM however fails to report that.

 

[Ausm]

Already got your tax increase this year.


MSM however fails to report that.

And this has to do with wut?? It's not only hilarious but also sad how much of the Rightists in here can barely afford to pay attention but continully back the most affluent in our Society.

 

[Nintendesert]

Wages have been pretty much stagnant for the Middle class for quite a while now.

What pisses me off is that both parties are squeezing the middle class. Entitlements for people that don't provide anything to society and then rampant profits for sectors like oil while prices for gasoline skyrocket. Easily the biggest rising drain on the middle class right now. Both sides loving that though since it pushes the Eco-Tard agenda and the other side lines the pockets of their donors. All the while the middle class keeps bleeding but people still play partisan politics and pick a side based on the letter next to their name while they are both doing the same exact shit, just for different reasons. 😡

 

[K1052]

Entitlements for people that don't provide anything to society

Like old people, veterans, and the disabled? I'm cool with looking how to restructure entitlements for people that don't need them or more efficient ways to hold down healthcare costs but demonizing everyone who you don't personally consider to be a productive member of society probably isn't the best option.

pushes the Eco-Tard agenda

What is the "Eco-Tard" agenda?

 

[Matt1970]

Already got your tax increase this year.


MSM however fails to report that.

Yep, we raised taxes. Where are the spending cuts?