Senators call for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Abuse investigation

[k1pp3r]

So this guy plans attacks that kill thousands of Americans and we can't bend his fingers to get information from him.

This CIA should say "yeah, we did, so what we got the information."

This guy was scum, now our senators are defending him.

A transcript of Mohammed's hearing, released Wednesday by the
Pentagon, refers to a claim he made that he was tortured by the CIA, though he said he was not under duress at Guantanamo when he confessed to his role in the attacks. The CIA has said its interrogation practices are legal, and it does not use torture.

"Allegations of prisoner mistreatment must be taken seriously and properly investigated," the senators' statement said.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

terrorists and illegals have more rights than the rest of us because of BDS

 

[k1pp3r]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
terrorists and illegals have more rights than the rest of us because of BDS

Point taken, isn't that sad

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
terrorists and illegals have more rights than the rest of us because of BDS

BDS?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: k1pp3r
So this guy plans attacks that kill thousands of Americans and we can't bend his fingers to get information from him.

This CIA should say "yeah, we did, so what we got the information."

This guy was scum, now our senators are defending him.

It's a good thing at least some of them remember minor details like the U.S Constitution and the Geneva Conventions.

The Criminal In Chief, his entire criminal administration and the amoral neocon political fscktards who support and enable them are a greater menace to the United States of America of our greater hopes and dreams than Osama Bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and all of Al Qaeda combined. At least they admit they're out to destroy us while the Bushwhackos neocon liars pretend they're on our side and try to defend their treachery as "self defense."

They are the enemy within. :|

You don't defeat evil by becoming the evil you seek to defeat. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

 

[First]

Anyone who supports torture, for any reason, is OK with the U.S. letting terrorist groups know that their tactics are perfectly acceptable and that the U.S. is willing to stoop to their immoral levels to beat them. Unfortunately these people don't realize they are hurting the U.S. cause to root out terror and shredding parts of the Constitution in the process.

 

[k1pp3r]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: k1pp3r
So this guy plans attacks that kill thousands of Americans and we can't bend his fingers to get information from him.

This CIA should say "yeah, we did, so what we got the information."

This guy was scum, now our senators are defending him.

It's a good thing at least some of them remember minor details like the U.S Constitution and the Geneva Conventions.

The Criminal In Chief, his entire criminal administration and the amoral neocon political fscktards who support and enable them are a greater menace to the United States of America of our greater hopes and dreams than Osama Bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and all of Al Qaeda combined. At least they admit they're out to destroy us while the Bushwhackos neocon liars pretend they're on our side and try to defend their treachery as "self defense."

They are the enemy within. :|

You don't defeat evil by becoming the evil you seek to defeat. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

I didn't ask for YET another bush bashing thread, there are enough of them already. So are you saying that if someone has info on killing 10K Americans that you don't care, we should not pull off a finger nail or two.

 

[k1pp3r]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Anyone who supports torture, for any reason, is OK with the U.S. letting terrorist groups know that their tactics are perfectly acceptable and that the U.S. is willing to stoop to their immoral levels to beat them. Unfortunately these people don't realize they are hurting the U.S. cause to root out terror and shredding parts of the Constitution in the process.

I believe there is a huge difference in blowing up 30 - 1000 people or cutting peoples heads off on video and passing it around the net than bending some fingers of 1 person. Huge difference indeed.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: k1pp3r

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: k1pp3r
So this guy plans attacks that kill thousands of Americans and we can't bend his fingers to get information from him.

This CIA should say "yeah, we did, so what we got the information."

This guy was scum, now our senators are defending him.

It's a good thing at least some of them remember minor details like the U.S Constitution and the Geneva Conventions.

The Criminal In Chief, his entire criminal administration and the amoral neocon political fscktards who support and enable them are a greater menace to the United States of America of our greater hopes and dreams than Osama Bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and all of Al Qaeda combined. At least they admit they're out to destroy us while the Bushwhackos neocon liars pretend they're on our side and try to defend their treachery as "self defense."

They are the enemy within. :|

You don't defeat evil by becoming the evil you seek to defeat. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

I didn't ask for YET another bush bashing thread, there are enough of them already. So are you saying that if someone has info on killing 10K Americans that you don't care, we should not pull off a finger nail or two.

The whole point of principles and policy is to follow them. If you don't you're merely lying to the American people. If you torture people (the U.S., in fact, does) then just say so. Instead we get Bush saying he doesn't use torture (lie). Based on confirmed CIA prison camps and testimony of many different people aboard who were tortured and then released on their own recognizances.

If you don't understand the theory of rights shredding then it's hard to make you understand that just because someone may have vital information, doesn't mean you have the obligation to torture them. This is the EXACT justification terrorists use when they torture people. And like the U.S. government, terrorists have tortured people that ended up having no links/ties/information regarding terrorists elements. Torturing an innocent man is the COST of condoning torture.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: k1pp3r

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Anyone who supports torture, for any reason, is OK with the U.S. letting terrorist groups know that their tactics are perfectly acceptable and that the U.S. is willing to stoop to their immoral levels to beat them. Unfortunately these people don't realize they are hurting the U.S. cause to root out terror and shredding parts of the Constitution in the process.

I believe there is a huge difference in blowing up 30 - 1000 people or cutting peoples heads off on video and passing it around the net than bending some fingers of 1 person. Huge difference indeed.

Except "bending fingers" is not what is taking place. Water boarding is not bending fingers. Forcing people to stand still spread-eagle for days on end is, in fact, one of the worst forms of torture.

 

[k1pp3r]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Originally posted by: k1pp3r

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: k1pp3r
So this guy plans attacks that kill thousands of Americans and we can't bend his fingers to get information from him.

This CIA should say "yeah, we did, so what we got the information."

This guy was scum, now our senators are defending him.

It's a good thing at least some of them remember minor details like the U.S Constitution and the Geneva Conventions.

The Criminal In Chief, his entire criminal administration and the amoral neocon political fscktards who support and enable them are a greater menace to the United States of America of our greater hopes and dreams than Osama Bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and all of Al Qaeda combined. At least they admit they're out to destroy us while the Bushwhackos neocon liars pretend they're on our side and try to defend their treachery as "self defense."

They are the enemy within. :|

You don't defeat evil by becoming the evil you seek to defeat. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

I didn't ask for YET another bush bashing thread, there are enough of them already. So are you saying that if someone has info on killing 10K Americans that you don't care, we should not pull off a finger nail or two.

The whole point of principles and policy is to follow them. If you don't you're merely lying to the American people. If you torture people (the U.S., in fact, does) then just say so. Instead we get Bush saying he doesn't use torture (lie). Based on confirmed CIA prison camps and testimony of many different people aboard who were tortured and then released on their own recognizances.

If you don't understand the theory of rights shredding then it's hard to make you understand that just because someone may have vital information, doesn't mean you have the obligation to torture them. This is the EXACT justification terrorists use when they torture people. And like the U.S. government, terrorists have tortured people that ended up having no links/ties/information regarding terrorists elements. Torturing an innocent man is the COST of condoning torture.

Yes, i do recall Bush saying they don't torture, your right there. Believe me, i think torture is a very extreme measure to take, but this is a guy that planned the killing of over 3K Americans, someone like that has information to give.

Other abuse investigations such as gitmo are totally legit, we just rounded up people there, torture should never have been used.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: k1pp3r
So this guy plans attacks that kill thousands of Americans and we can't bend his fingers to get information from him.

This CIA should say "yeah, we did, so what we got the information."

This guy was scum, now our senators are defending him.

A transcript of Mohammed's hearing, released Wednesday by the
Pentagon, refers to a claim he made that he was tortured by the CIA, though he said he was not under duress at Guantanamo when he confessed to his role in the attacks. The CIA has said its interrogation practices are legal, and it does not use torture.

"Allegations of prisoner mistreatment must be taken seriously and properly investigated," the senators' statement said.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: k1pp3r

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: k1pp3r
So this guy plans attacks that kill thousands of Americans and we can't bend his fingers to get information from him.

This CIA should say "yeah, we did, so what we got the information."

This guy was scum, now our senators are defending him.

It's a good thing at least some of them remember minor details like the U.S Constitution and the Geneva Conventions.

The Criminal In Chief, his entire criminal administration and the amoral neocon political fscktards who support and enable them are a greater menace to the United States of America of our greater hopes and dreams than Osama Bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and all of Al Qaeda combined. At least they admit they're out to destroy us while the Bushwhackos neocon liars pretend they're on our side and try to defend their treachery as "self defense."

They are the enemy within. :|

You don't defeat evil by becoming the evil you seek to defeat. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

I didn't ask for YET another bush bashing thread, there are enough of them already. So are you saying that if someone has info on killing 10K Americans that you don't care, we should not pull off a finger nail or two.

That's a pretty specious argument, that kind of thing only happens in bad TV shows like '24'. You can't right policy based on stupid Hollywood scenarios, and if you think otherwise, try taking that kind of thinking to its logical conclusion.

 

[Martin]

Can I ask how many of your torture fans are Christians?

 

[Termagant]

Originally posted by: Martin
Can I ask how many of your torture fans are Christians?

I'm sure you can find plenty of times when justified torture occurred in the Old Testement, like when Jonah was water boarded in that whale's stomach.

And don't give me that New Testement crap, everyone knows that book is for homosexuals.

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: Martin
Can I ask how many of your torture fans are Christians?

Before they could be that, they'd have to be human beings.

 

[DaveSimmons]

If I have you tortured for several years by the CIA I'll bet I can get you to confess to any and every crime that I want you to.

By then you'll even believe that there are five lights.

 

[dahunan]

I would still like to see an honest investigation into how many innocent people we tortured in Abu-Ghraib.. You know.. the ones we let go because they were innocent

We tortured people who didn't know anything whatsoever

I can bet that many real America soldiers and Brass are pissed off about places like abu-ghraib and Gitmo et al... It endangers the lives of our soldiers.. many of whom have family members IN the armed forces.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: k1pp3r
I didn't ask for YET another bush bashing thread, there are enough of them already. So are you saying that if someone has info on killing 10K Americans that you don't care, we should not pull off a finger nail or two.

Before you continue making an ass of yourself, you may want to check TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 113C, § 2340 of the U.S. Code:

As used in this chapter?

• (1) ?torture? means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
  
  (2) ?severe mental pain or suffering? means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from?
  • 
    (A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
    
    (B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
    
    (C) the threat of imminent death; or
    
    (D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and
  (3) ?United States? means the several States of the United States, the District of Columbia, and the commonwealths, territories, and possessions of the United States.

Or perhaps, you'd like to discuss it, one on one, with people like John McCain:

According to Republican United States Senator John McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, waterboarding is "very exquisite torture" and a mock execution, which can damage the subject's psyche "in ways that may never heal."

Then, go and read the Geneva Conventions. The United States is a signatory, and violating them is a crime under U.S. and international law.

When you're done with that, you can get back to us about your beliefs AFTER YOU are falsely arrested, imprisoned without access to legal counsel or communication with anyone and having a few polite conversations with people who don't mind if they have to "pull off a finger nail or two."

I'd guess you'd last about five nanoseconds before you confessed to anything and said whatever you thought they wanted to hear to get them to stop.

 

[dahunan]

They are already telling us that half the ****** this guy said he did or was responsible for was just that BULLSHIT ..

 

[k1pp3r]

Originally posted by: dahunan
I would still like to see an honest investigation into how many innocent people we tortured in Abu-Ghraib.. You know.. the ones we let go because they were innocent

We tortured people who didn't know anything whatsoever

Yes, that i would like to see, like i said, its an extreme measure, very extreme

Keep in mind Mohammed was never innocent, we knew he was involved from the time we caught him.

 

[cumhail]

Originally posted by: k1pp3r

Originally posted by: dahunan
I would still like to see an honest investigation into how many innocent people we tortured in Abu-Ghraib.. You know.. the ones we let go because they were innocent

We tortured people who didn't know anything whatsoever

Yes, that i would like to see, like i said, its an extreme measure, very extreme

Keep in mind Mohammed was never innocent, we knew he was involved from the time we caught him.

Funny thing about the things "we know..."

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
- Donald Rumsfeld, on ""This Week with George Stephanopoulos," March 30, 2003.
Link: http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2003/t03302003_t0330sdabcsteph.html

"There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein has biological weapons and the capability to rapidly produce more, many more. And he has the ability to dispense these lethal poisons and diseases in ways that can cause massive death and destruction. If biological weapons seem too terrible to contemplate, chemical weapons are equally chilling."
<and, later>
"People will continue to debate this issue, but there is no doubt in my mind, these illicit procurement efforts show that Saddam Hussein is very much focused on putting in place the key missing piece from his nuclear weapons program, the ability to produce fissile material. "
- Colin Powell, in his presentation to the UN, February 5, 2003.
Link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/02/20030205-1.html

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us. And there is no doubt that his aggressive regional ambitions will lead him into future confrontations with his neighbors -- confrontations that will involve both the weapons he has today, and the ones he will continue to develop with his oil wealth."
- Dick Cheney, speaking at the 103rd National Convention of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, August 26, 2002.
Link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020826.html

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: k1pp3r

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: k1pp3r
So this guy plans attacks that kill thousands of Americans and we can't bend his fingers to get information from him.

This CIA should say "yeah, we did, so what we got the information."

This guy was scum, now our senators are defending him.

It's a good thing at least some of them remember minor details like the U.S Constitution and the Geneva Conventions.

The Criminal In Chief, his entire criminal administration and the amoral neocon political fscktards who support and enable them are a greater menace to the United States of America of our greater hopes and dreams than Osama Bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and all of Al Qaeda combined. At least they admit they're out to destroy us while the Bushwhackos neocon liars pretend they're on our side and try to defend their treachery as "self defense."

They are the enemy within. :|

You don't defeat evil by becoming the evil you seek to defeat. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

I didn't ask for YET another bush bashing thread, there are enough of them already. So are you saying that if someone has info on killing 10K Americans that you don't care, we should not pull off a finger nail or two.

Just hope that you or anyone in your family never mistakenly taken for a terrorist by the beloved administration.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

I was wondering if this would happen...

 

[Sinsear]

Maybe we should just say "we're sorry" and release this guy. I mean he's been through enough. False imprisonment, false accusations, torture...I'm sure he means us no harm.