Guns are point an shoot. Please don't make them out to be some complicated machinery. Toddlers get there hands on them and are very successful in blowing each others heads off. The danger in guns is they are easy for anyone to use.
Guns are point an shoot. Please don't make them out to be some complicated machinery. Toddlers get there hands on them and are very successful in blowing each others heads off. The danger in guns is they are easy for anyone to use.
As Queasy said, it's not as easy as just picking up a gun and being able to shoot. Military and law enforcement have to practice for a large number of hours (over a hundred for FBI when I was applying) and however long other branches do to qualify during the marksmanship tests. Proper footing, grip, shooting techniques, etc all play a part.
Shooting a 9mm at the gun range once every 3 months doesn't qualify as nearly the same level of accuracy nor in a war situation, and neither does being a Colonel in Halo 3. There are some naturally good shooters who can pick up a gun and with a little practice be deadly, but if you were to pickup a gun you've never fired or fired a few times and go up against a member of the military, I'll put my money on them 99/100 times.
Combat stress is different than "learning very fast in life or death situations"...ask anyone whose been to Iraq. Some normal peon who thinks stress is deciding whether to eat pizza or burgers for dinner isn't going to be even close to effective when needed as someone whose endured boot camp and actual combat situations.
Shooting a 9mm at the gun range once every 3 months doesn't qualify as nearly the same level of accuracy nor in a war situation, and neither does being a Colonel in Halo 3. There are some naturally good shooters who can pick up a gun and with a little practice be deadly, but if you were to pickup a gun you've never fired or fired a few times and go up against a member of the military, I'll put my money on them 99/100 times.
Combat stress is different than "learning very fast in life or death situations"...ask anyone whose been to Iraq. Some normal peon who thinks stress is deciding whether to eat pizza or burgers for dinner isn't going to be even close to effective when needed as someone whose endured boot camp and actual combat situations.
I agree I'm not trying to claim that I played halo so therefore I can take out a marine IRL. Not at all. I'm saying give a group of people with no experience in anything a gun and a group of people that have grown up playing combat shooting games some guns and who will prove the stronger group of the two.
I'm a pretty good shot in real life, and yes, I credit a part of that to video games - quick reflexes and the ability to lead a moving target. They also may have increased my tolerance for violence.
That aside, no, I don't think games would make anyone a good soldier, nor will they make you a master of military strategy.
That aside, no, I don't think games would make anyone a good soldier, nor will they make you a master of military strategy.
I would agree with that. And when these experience-less, blithering idiots come to the shores of Virginia, I'll be glad to help end their miserable existence.
EDIT: Actually, if we're taking the "no experience in anything" part literally, it might help prepare us to play a few zombie shooters, as well.
pontifex
Lifer
- Dec 5, 2000
- 43,804
- 46
- 91
if i'm making them more complicated than they are, you're making it way simpler than they are.
they are not just point and shoot, at least not if you want to hit somethign that isn't stationary and 2 feet in front of you..
you have to know how to operate one (load, rack, reload, clear jams, aim, stance, grip, etc), not just pulling the trigger. Adding a combat situation where your life is in danger makes these functions even more difficult.
those toddlers are alos getting hold of pre-loaded, round in the camber, unsecured firearms. there's no way a toddler could rack the slide on a semi-auto pistol. I'd also be willing to bet said toddlers aren't aiming and getting headshots either, like you seem to imply. they're called accidents because they don't know wtf they are doing.
Its not that hard dude. Really...its not. If you can kill someone at 50 yards with a paintball gun you can do it with an AR.
Slapping in a new magazine isn't terrible hard(most only fit one way)
From video games I know there is a release for the magazine. From video games I know that there are two sights on most weapons. When they are aligned you are pointing at where your bullet will go. I also know in general how to stand and hold the gun from video games. Its just not that difficult. All the skills you are describing except maybe clearing a jam are something I've seen hundreds of times simulated in games.
I am not claiming you will be an expert I am claiming that the skills are somewhat transferable.
pontifex
Lifer
- Dec 5, 2000
- 43,804
- 46
- 91
mythbusters needs to do this. i would really like to see a test done with someone that has never seen a gun outside of a video game or movie and that has played video games for years, and see how well they do.
they have to take a box of ammo, load an empty magazine or clip, insert the mag/clip, chamber a round, release the safety (if there is one), and fire off the entire mag/clip at a target without any help what-so-ever and see how well they do.
they have to take a box of ammo, load an empty magazine or clip, insert the mag/clip, chamber a round, release the safety (if there is one), and fire off the entire mag/clip at a target without any help what-so-ever and see how well they do.
I think a good parallel to this is a surgeon working in a virtual simulation as opposed to an actual body.
Or playing a driving video game as opposed to actually driving.
Would a 16 year old kid who played driving video games throughout his youth be better at driving in real life than a kid who did not play driving video games? I would say yes, but not for the typical reasons. Video games improve visual-spatial skills and reflexes. They increase your awareness of your environment, and so indirectly make you a better driver.
It's at the very least more useful than a passive learning activity - for example, someone who simply watches good driving.
Or playing a driving video game as opposed to actually driving.
Would a 16 year old kid who played driving video games throughout his youth be better at driving in real life than a kid who did not play driving video games? I would say yes, but not for the typical reasons. Video games improve visual-spatial skills and reflexes. They increase your awareness of your environment, and so indirectly make you a better driver.
It's at the very least more useful than a passive learning activity - for example, someone who simply watches good driving.
Soldiers aren't typically hand loading magazines in combat are they?
Chambering with the BR in halo is just pulling the bulbous lever back until you hear a click and releasing. Certainly comparable to any other IRL rifle no? Revolvers don't need to be chambered IIRC. A handgun without a hammer to cock back may be the least intuitive to chamber.
Seriously? What if it was filled with blanks so there was no chance at lethal injury do you still think you wouldn't be able to figure out how to aim and fire it?
Haven't you even played those arcade games that have actual replica rifles like deer hunter?
surgery and Driving both require more skill than aim and shoot.
I definitely think a kid can get in a car and figure out gas, break, drive and park. Absolutely. The handling of the car would take a few minutes to learn. As would the handling of a weopon.
I was just responding back to your original post:
Anyone whose getting shot at is going to duck and hit the deck. Playing video games shouldn't help that. I really don't think a squad of video gamers armed with guns is going to fare much better other than as cannon fodder than a regular bunch of civilians...you'd still be shitting your pants with the rest of the non-gamers. Assuming you're going up against trained terrorists, you're still not going to understand sweeping the corners, basic squad tactics, not hugging walls, etc.
Then the part of "becoming pretty effective with it in a matter of minutes" - I fail to see how Halo or COD4 trains you to be effective with a gun. Minus changing out your clip and sliding the action back to chamber a new round, you're still just a civilian with no real experience firing a gun. You stated earlier:
And just how does Halo make you better at doing that? If it's not as difficult as it sounds, anyone can do it, with or without video games. Playing video games isn't going to help you judge range, wind, curvature of the earth, gravity if you're at an elevated position, etc. The only thing Halo teaches people is that after you kill somebody you need to teabag them and call them a n00b.
jdoggg12
Platinum Member
- Aug 20, 2005
- 2,685
- 11
- 81
One of my best friends is an avid gamer and is also deployed in Iraq. He hasn't been in any major firefights, but he said a lot of their strategy is similar to what you'd see in high quality socom or rainbowsix games.
I got in to paintball a few years ago and the tactics i learned in R6 DEFINITELY helped. Flanking, team communication, peeking, etc were all things that a lot of them didn't even know. Now i know paintball isn't a real gunfight, but its the next logical step from games before real combat. And btw, real combat isn't necessarily army ranger level fighting. I own several guns (rifles/pistols) and know that i could hold my own in a "skirmish", but anyone that thinks video games/paintball/airsoft/ etc will ready them for a military level confrontation is deluded
I got in to paintball a few years ago and the tactics i learned in R6 DEFINITELY helped. Flanking, team communication, peeking, etc were all things that a lot of them didn't even know. Now i know paintball isn't a real gunfight, but its the next logical step from games before real combat. And btw, real combat isn't necessarily army ranger level fighting. I own several guns (rifles/pistols) and know that i could hold my own in a "skirmish", but anyone that thinks video games/paintball/airsoft/ etc will ready them for a military level confrontation is deluded
PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
- 21,758
- 603
- 126
I suppose the basic ideas of cover and team tactics are conveyed...but I would think all the positive enforcement of an action bias would do way more harm. I mean, in halo or whatever you can peek out behind cover, get clipped on the shoulder and your health bar goes down 20%. IIRL if you get shot in the shoulder you'd start bleeding all over the god damn place.
I just don't see a lot of value from the video games...no more then watching James Bond movies makes you a super spy. They're at best stylized exaggerations of reality. Realistically...they're a bunch of entertaining bullshit!
I just don't see a lot of value from the video games...no more then watching James Bond movies makes you a super spy. They're at best stylized exaggerations of reality. Realistically...they're a bunch of entertaining bullshit!
So take the average american gamer and pit them against the average Chinamen who has lived on a rice farm their entire life. Who will fare better then?
Thats not what i was implying. I don't think re-loading a magazine is the first think I would care to know when I need to fire a loaded weapon. I was assuming the civilians would have access to guns and magazines. Most people keep their guns load or at least with loaded clips at close reach.
It doesn't do much good to have a home defense weapon on the other side of the house from the ammo.
Yeah sure it is. I am comparing a civilian with gaming experience to a civilian with no experience. Which would fare better.
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