Securom on Games

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Fallout 3 (7.36.0006)

Is the SecuROM in FallOut 3 the "phone home" kind found in Mass Effect, or is it a disc check?

Mass Effect? (7.37.0012)

Also, what does the cross next to a title mean? It's not explained in the original post...

Hi Ryan, hope this helps (despite claims to the contrary I did not compile the list):

http://reclaimyourgame.com/ind...rticle&id=45&Itemid=11

Its a disk check as far as I'm aware and requires you to maintain the DVD in the drive when playing.

Check this out as well (bears thinking about):

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://support.securom.com/pop_fallout3.html">https://support.securom.com/pop_fallout3.html</a>

Have a good one.

I can't view those links at work.

Can you summarize them to answer my questions?

 

[Red Irish]

I can do better than that Ryan:

first link, opening paragraph prior to list:

So, how many games have SecuROM v7? Well, we think you'd be surprised as to how many games have this version (this list has at least 200!). The majority of them haven't really had problems reported online but many of them do such as BioShock, Mass Effect, The Sims 2 games and C&C3: Kane's Wrath are just to name a few. Versions of SecuROM for the known latest version of each game is listed. The most recent version of SecuROM uncovered so far is 7.39., which has been uncovered in games since late February 2009. The titles in bold have limited activations (of any kind, including the ones that sound stupid (like Far Cry 2) and try to seem less limiting), and those with a bold dagger have online authentication required. Those with a strikethrough used to have SecuROM, but were updated so that it could be removed from a patch (with its version number in '[ ]'). Please note that the list definitely not a complete list and has constant updates; games not on the list are not certain to not have SecuROM 7, and there are many that we don't know about still; we've also left out some titles (usually from territories such as China or Japan) because no publisher info was obtainable or for other reasons. Here is the list of games that have SecuROM v7 and their full versions, listed alphabetically by publisher:


Second link (copy and paste):

Fallout 3 - Frequently asked questions:
You are here: Home » Support for popular titles » Fallout 3

Product information:
Website: http://fallout.bethsoft.com/
Media: DVD-ROM / digital download

Important: Please download and install the latest available patch from the official website.

Please find below a list of frequently asked questions we have collected for Fallout 3:

Q: I get the error message: 'Emulation detected error (e.g. 2500)' when I try to install Fallout 3.
A: There is a manual way to install Fallout 3:

1) Right click on your DVD-Drive containing the Fallout 3 disc and select explore.
2) Double click on the setup.exe located in the DVD folder you just opened.
3) Follow the install instructions.

Q: I get the error message: 'Emulation detected error (e.g. 2500)' when I try to start Fallout 3.
A: Please unmount all images and deactivate running emulation software.
If you still face the same error message, please download the latest official patch available for your version of the game. This is the official link to the Fallout 3 website which contains the patch under the download section: http://fallout.bethsoft.com/.

Q: I get the error message: 'Emulation detected error (e.g. 2500)' when I insert the Fallout 3 disc in my DVD-Drive.
A: The autorun of the Fallout 3 disc calls the FalloutLauncher.exe on the disc. You can deactivate the autorun feature of Windows (e.g. open Control Panel, click AutoPlay icon in Windows Vista).

Q: The above answers don't solve my issue.
A: Please create an analysis file and contact the SecuROM? support.


Those damn bosses, expecting us to work for our wages...

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

So the ones with the "dagger" have online authentication required. Unfortunately, the bold didn't carry over when you copied and pasted it.

I thought BioShock removed the requirement for online authentication? Or, did it just release a revoke tool?

Thanks for the info, Red Irish.

 

[mindcycle]

@ RyanPaulShaffer

Fallout 3 has a disc check (via securom) if you launch the the game from the shortcut created on your desktop after installation. If you launch the game directly from the executable inside the install directory it doesn't do that, so you don't need to have the disc in the drive. I re-pointed my shortcut to that executable so I no longer need to keep the disc around. Hope that helps.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Originally posted by: mindcycle
@ RyanPaulShaffer

Fallout 3 has a disc check (via securom) if you launch the the game from the shortcut created on your desktop after installation. If you launch the game directly from the executable inside the install directory it doesn't do that, so you don't need to have the disc in the drive. I re-pointed my shortcut to that executable so I no longer need to keep the disc around. Hope that helps.

Pirate!

Supposedly the Steam version also installs SecuROM, but obviously doesn't enforce a disc check.

 

[Red Irish]

Interesting article:

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/...rts-learning-with-drm/

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Interesting article:

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/...rts-learning-with-drm/

?That goes in the category of corporate learning,? Wright said. ?People are playing a lot of money for a game. You don?t want to treat them as criminals because of the piracy issue.?

Will Wright knows what's up and he probably didn't want activation based SecuROM on his product to begin with. But as stated in that article, it was definitely a corporate decision. Now, I can't fault EA for thinking that harsher DRM would somehow "solve" the piracy problem, but i'm surprised no one ever thought that I would be a bad idea for the people actually paying you money..

Well, they're learning the hard way, but at least they're learning. Thanks for posting that article Red Irish. It just goes to show that DRM is still an important issue and is still being looked at and discussed. I like how the EA spokesperson mentions that The Sims 3 will have "No DRM", when in fact it does, just not the pointless draconian kind. But who knows what they actually think DRM is in the first place..

I do like this..

How these things roll out in the future will be down to the developers and we will make announcements in due course.

I hope that's actually true, but it's highly doubtful.

 

[Red Irish]

Three things today, each equally important:

1) I have updated the list of games that include Securom in the original post.

2) Below, I have copied and pasted the instructions for removing Securom from your system, which are taken from the same site (http://reclaimyourgame.com/). As the instructions indicate, Sony and the companies that employ Securom have spared no efforts to ensure that, once installed, it remains on a user's system:

"SecuROM Removal Tutorial" Revised
Written by Lisa Arnold
Monday, 02 February 2009 11:14
Before you start this Tutorial....you need to know one very important fact. If you have the EADM (Electronic Arts Download Manager) intalled on your PC, then you WILL need to uninstall that FIRST. If you don't, then you'll be wasting your time doing the SecuROM Removal Tute, because if you still have the EADM installed, it will reinstall SecuROM back into your PC.

If you need to remove the EADM from your PC, please use either of these two links to get you to the EADM Removal Instructions: Prism OR RYG

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NOTE: YOU MUST BE LOGGED IN AS THE ADMINISTRATOR ON YOUR PC TO SUCCESSFULLY REMOVE SECUROM

As some gamers have had issues with the RegDelNull program not working properly anymore to find and remove some of the SecuROM files, (possibly due to a change that may have been made to the latest SecuROM versions)
This is a revision of the ?A Cleaned Up Version of MATY Removal Instructions Walkthrough by Aphrodita? which is now in our Archived section. I?ve tried to make these instructions as easy as I could so that almost anyone is able to follow them without too much trouble.

The other alternative to successfully removing SecuROM is to re-format your hard drive.
-------------------------------------------------------------
There are two parts to this tutorial

Here is a very simple tutorial to remove the SecuROM files from your PC.

Part .1

Now to start the tutorial for using the SecuROM Removal Tool.

01. Download & Install the SecuROM Removal Tool from here: Removal Tool

02. Extract the files to your C:\ Drive

03. For Vista, See Step #4; For XP check out Step #5

04. On Vista, go to your Start Menu and select All Programs > Accessories > Run.

05. On XP, go to your Start Menu and select RUN.

06. Type in cmd once the Run dialog box appears

07. Command Prompt program will now run. Type in cd c:\ in the window.
This will change the directory to the C:\ drive, as that is where you need to be to run the program.

08. Now type in the following SecuROM_Uninstaller.exe /fulluninstall and press the Enter key on your keyboard.

09. Pressing ENTER will run the SecuROM Removal Tool - You will get an error prompt box come up with

(Not all SecuROM components were uninstalled successfully. Please reboot and make sure to login under an account having administrator privileges)

This is a standard message from the removal tool, please just ignore it and answer OK.

This is also why you DO need to do the second part of this tutorial.

The reason for that message is because Sony/SecuROM doesn't want ALL of SecuROM removed from our PC's....it leaves some registry Files behind on purpose by Sony/SecuROM. The files it leaves behind is left there so that SecuROM reinstalls itself if you don't know about removing the rest of the files and don't do the second part of this tutorial thoroughly.

10. Most of the SecuROM files will now have been wiped off of your PC's System!

11. Don?t run your games off of the CDs/DVD's anymore or use your original .exe files as that will re-install SecuROM on your PC.

If you've managed to get through that part, then Congratulations! You?re almost there.

----------------------------------------------
Please Restart your computer now!

Part .2

Your next task is to remove the remaining SecuROM files from your Registry.

To remove them, please follow the instructions below very carefully:

You will need to go into your registry -


For XP users - Start by going to the Start button then to Run type regedit to get in there.
For Vista users - Go to the Start button then to All programs then to Accessories then to Run then type in regedit to get to where you search all your registry folders.

Then once you're in...go to the top menu bar and click on - "edit" - "find". Type in SecuROM then click on the Find Next button.

If any results show up...just right-click with your mouse button on it and select delete from the list...it should allow you to remove it.
Then just keep repeating the search until nothing shows up.

You need to do the same search process for the following file names: ?

CmdLineExt.dll
CmdLineExt01.dll
CmdLineExt02.dll
CmdLineExt03.dll
CmdLineExt
CmdLineExt.exe
CmdLineContextMenu Class
CmdLineExtInstaller.exe
CmdLineExt.CmdLineContextMenu
CmdLineExt.CmdLineContextMenu.1
drm_dyndat_*.dll
drm_dialogs.dll
SecuExp.exe

This one is for Vista and Windows XP 64 users only -
CmdLineExt_x64.dll

If you don't get any results from some of the file searches, please don't panic...that just means you have been successful in removing the SecuROM files from your registry properly.

Not all of these files will show up in a search, it just depends on what version of SecuROM was in your PC.

You can now restart your PC and do the Registry search again to make sure you didn?t miss anything the first time, and if nothing shows up in the repeated search, then you?re now SecuROM FREE Congratulations! You did GREAT

3) An Apology

I feel that I owe the forum an apology. Recently, the related thread "Valve's Steamworks makes DRM/Crippleware Obsolete" was locked down by the moderators. DRM is a subject that involves a lot of interests and which gives rise to a great deal of controversy. I am clearly passionate about this subject; however, I feel that the childish exchanges and accusations present in the aforementioned thread, for which I am at least partially responsible, did little to serve my own or any other cause. I stand by the sentiments expressed in all posts that I have made to date; however, the ends do not necessarily justify the means and I feel that I overstepped the line on several occasions, voicing personal and inflammatory remarks . Moreover, I have no doubt that other posters who wished to comment in the aforementioned thread were deterred by the immature bickering they encountered. In the future, I will endeavour to ensure that my involvement remains at the level of intelligent, or at least semi-intelligent, discussion and where I disagree with another user, I will say so, without becoming involved in meaningless, repetitive exchanges.

Sorry folks

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
I feel that I owe the forum an apology. Recently, the related thread "Valve's Steamworks makes DRM/Crippleware Obsolete" was locked down by the moderators. DRM is a subject that involves a lot of interests and which gives rise to a great deal of controversy. I am clearly passionate about this subject; however, I feel that the childish exchanges and accusations present in the aforementioned thread, for which I am at least partially responsible, did little to serve my own or any other cause. I stand by the sentiments expressed in all posts that I have made to date; however, the ends do not necessarily justify the means and I feel that I overstepped the line on several occasions, voicing personal and inflammatory remarks . Moreover, I have no doubt that other posters who wished to comment in the aforementioned thread were deterred by the immature bickering they encountered. In the future, I will endeavour to ensure that my involvement remains at the level of intelligent, or at least semi-intelligent, discussion and where I disagree with another user, I will say so, without becoming involved in meaningless, repetitive exchanges.

Sorry folks

IMO there is no need to apologize. The thread was going way off topic, so it's no surprise it was locked. However it's is quite clear to me and others what was accomplished there, and IMO it needed to be done given past threads that were derailed like that one was.

 

[Red Irish]

It has certainly been an interesting week in terms of issues relating to Securom and abusive DRM. There have been a number of developments and important posts over the Easter holiday period:

1) A thread that shows what Steam should be doing and just how abusive it is:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2293171&enterthread=y

2) A thread reporting on Will Wright?s sudden exit from EA:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2293077&enterthread=y

Many posters have sought to explain Wright?s departure in terms of the fiasco resulting from the Securom/limited installs imposed on Spore. Indeed, whilst such analysis fails to rise above the realms of conjecture, there does seem to be a conflict of interests: on the one hand, we have Wright, a creator of games that seek to reach out to the community and encourage user interaction over the Web; on the other hand, company executives, employing Sony?s malware to limit user rights.

3) A thread reporting on Id?s change of focus in favour of consoles:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2293771&enterthread=y

The recent trend of increased Securom/draconian DRM often makes me think that there is a concerted effort to annoy pc users to such an extent that we either forego gaming altogether or move to consoles. Certainly the issue bears careful consideration before you decide to upgrade your current rig.

4) Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2293356&enterthread=y

The new Riddick game, Dark Athena, represents a return to the Draconian DRM evident on titles such a Spore, when it was originally released, with the imposition of limited installations and with Sony?s rootkit thrown in for good measure.

The backlash against Atari has already started:

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-b...ewstory&threadid=97306

The companies are still not listening. Maybe they never will and we should simply roll over and accept the inevitable. What do you think?



On the aforementioned threads, you will encounter the usual accusations of piracy levelled at those in favour of reducing DRM to a minimum. This is a trend that I can not explain, unless the posters in question have a vested interest in the continued use of Securom and draconian DRM.

I remember the days of the Spectrum, when everyone filled both sides of a TDK D90 cassette with pirated games. Piracy has been a problem that has accompanied the PC gaming industry since the outset. Despite the levels of piracy evident on the Sinclair Spectrum, the platform managed to successfully survive for several years and only went under when Sir Clive decided to invest in projects such as this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5,

which, incidentally, bears an uncanny resemblance to this,

http://www.autoweek.com/articl...0406/CARNEWS/904079997

This is not an apology for piracy; however, I am not convinced that piracy has suddenly reached unprecedented levels: there may be more pirates, but there are also more game purchasers. Something clearly needs to be done to combat piracy, but the pc industry must one of the most conspicuous sectors at global level wherein security measures imply that legitimate users are guilty until proven innocent. I have argued against the functionality of Spore's Securom on other threads (http://forums.anandtech.com/me...2288763&enterthread=y) and have been confronted with users who have suggested that, despite being the most pirated game of 2008, piracy levels would have been higher without Sony's malware . That's right folks, you wanted to download the pirated copy, but Securom prevented you from doing so: no trial, no jury, but rather the imposition of unnecessary restrictions, simply because the companies feel that we are all pirates at heart. Of course, such security measures have nothing to do with attacking the second-hand sales market or attempting to herd us all towards consoles: the companies are far too honourable to use such a serious issue as piracy as a pretext to achieve other objectives.

I upgraded to i7 very shortly after its release. I bought two Club 3D factory overclocked HD 4850?s. I love the hardware, but recent trends in software security have begun to make me question my decision. As someone who still wants to be a gamer, my money may have been better spent on a console and several games.

I suggest some sort of poll or petition, simply to allow us to gauge the level of discontent or apathy in relation to Securom, something along the lines of:

a) I am totally against the use of Securom on games
b) I am in favour of the use of Securom on games
c) I am indifferent

Any thoughts?

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: Aberforth
Nothing you do will make them change their minds- copy protection existed several years ago and will continue to exist, just stop pirating the software- to do that you need to educate people, definitely not like this.

Open mouth, insert foot.

I wonder why EA has recently decided to dial back their DRM to just a CD-check type for the Sims 3? Hmm, I wonder if it was a reaction to Spore?

Join the flock sheeple; the others here will do everything for you that you can't do yourself.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: Aberforth
Nothing you do will make them change their minds- copy protection existed several years ago and will continue to exist, just stop pirating the software- to do that you need to educate people, definitely not like this.

Open mouth, insert foot.

I wonder why EA has recently decided to dial back their DRM to just a CD-check type for the Sims 3? Hmm, I wonder if it was a reaction to Spore?

Join the flock sheeple; the others here will do everything for you that you can't do yourself.

I agree with your analysis of the cited post; however, in my experience the Securom apologists very rarely acknowledge that they are wrong. I am interested in hearing from the Securom apologists in relation to my penultimate post. I would like their input in relation to the suggested poll as I want to ensure that it is not loaded one way or the other and can be used as a measure of the community's opinion on Securom.

 

[wanderer27]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
2) A thread reporting on Will Wright?s sudden exit from EA:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2293077&enterthread=y

Many posters have sought to explain Wright?s departure in terms of the fiasco resulting from the Securom/limited installs imposed on Spore. Indeed, whilst such analysis fails to rise above the realms of conjecture, there does seem to be a conflict of interests: on the one hand, we have Wright, a creator of games that seek to reach out to the community and encourage user interaction over the Web; on the other hand, company executives, employing Sony?s malware to limit user rights.

I think Will's done with gaming.
He said in a recent interview that he preferred Spore to sell to the masses vs being innovative and interesting (more or less) anyway.

I don't question his talent, but he's sold out to the Corporate philosophy / mindset, so he's pretty done developing anything that would interest me anymore anyway.

This is not an apology for piracy; however, I am not convinced that piracy has suddenly reached unprecedented levels: there may be more pirates, but there are also more game purchasers. Something clearly needs to be done to combat piracy, but the pc industry must one of the most conspicuous sectors at global level wherein security measures imply that legitimate users are guilty until proven innocent. I have argued against the functionality of Spore's Securom on other threads (http://forums.anandtech.com/me...2288763&enterthread=y) and have been confronted with users who have suggested that, despite being the most pirated game of 2008, piracy levels would have been higher without Sony's malware . That's right folks, you wanted to download the pirated copy, but Securom prevented you from doing so: no trial, no jury, but rather the imposition of unnecessary restrictions, simply because the companies feel that we are all pirates at heart. Of course, such security measures have nothing to do with attacking the second-hand sales market or attempting to herd us all towards consoles: the companies are far too honourable to use such a serious issue as piracy as a pretext to achieve other objectives.

This kinda brings us back to Spore.

The game that was released is not the same game we saw all those clips from (this has been said many times).
Even so, as dumbed down as it was, I was probably going to pick it up anyway and check it out. At the very least, my daughter would have probably enjoyed it.

Once I found out about the abusive DRM scheme they put on it (Spore), that pretty much nixed the chance of me picking that (or any other EA game) up.

DRM = lost sale to DRM, not lost sale to Piracy.

I mean come on, they even put this DRM version on the Spore Creature Creator demo . . . how moronic is that?

It basically boils down to control - and the problem for them is that I prefer to control my Computer.



As far as going the Console route, I don't see that happening in my case.
The past several months I've just been playing old (non DRM'd) games anyway.

You should check out some of the Indie developer games, there are some pretty good ones out there and most of them don't fudge around with crazy DRM schemes.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: wanderer27
As far as going the Console route, I don't see that happening in my case.
The past several months I've just been playing old (non DRM'd) games anyway.

You should check out some of the Indie developer games, there are some pretty good ones out there and most of them don't fudge around with crazy DRM schemes.

Hi Wanderer, good to hear from a kindred spirit.

I agree, we should support indie developers. Recent and upcoming releases such as Demigod and World of Goo deserve our support:

http://gdc.gamespot.com/story/6206551/

However, being forced to play older games to avoid DRM hardly presents an incentive to upgrade to the latest and greatest, so many may finally find themselves forced on to a console.

 

[wanderer27]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: wanderer27
As far as going the Console route, I don't see that happening in my case.
The past several months I've just been playing old (non DRM'd) games anyway.

You should check out some of the Indie developer games, there are some pretty good ones out there and most of them don't fudge around with crazy DRM schemes.

Hi Wanderer, good to hear from a kindred spirit.

I agree, we should support indie developers. Recent and upcoming releases such as Demigod and World of Goo deserve our support:

http://gdc.gamespot.com/story/6206551/

However, being forced to play older games to avoid DRM hardly presents an incentive to upgrade to the latest and greatest, so many may finally find themselves forced on to a console.

There's a lesson in this:

The only reason I bought my current Video Card is because it runs cooler and consumes less power than my previous GTX card (okay, so it's faster too).
I'm still running a 939 MB platform, and I really don't plan or need to upgrade.
There are no plans or needs in my future for a console.


Now we have:

DRM = I'm not buying their games.
DRM = I'm supporting the little guy (games).
DRM = I'm not buying new Hardware.
DRM = I'm saving money through not purchasing new Software or Hardware.


So, in their infinite wisdom, (from my perspective) they're killing the (big) PC game market, and they're taking down the Hardware market with them.

Maybe the HW manufacturers need to have a little talk with them . . . .

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: wanderer27
So, in their infinite wisdom, (from my perspective) they're killing the (big) PC game market, and they're taking down the Hardware market with them.

Maybe the HW manufacturers need to have a little talk with them . . . .

I agree. By including unnecessary DRM they may be causing a ripple effect that they might not be aware of. Publishers main goal is to generate a higher profit. Unfortunately this is often their only priority and other considerations get left at the dock. I have a feeling the people making these DRM decisions are sold on them because they truly believe they will stop piracy and generate more income.. and in theory it seems that they would.

..but we know this will never happen, and that's because lots of us here actually know that any protection will be cracked because we understand how computers work. The decision makers at these publishing companies most likely do not understand this. I can't fault them for thinking they may be able to tap into the piracy crowd and actually sell games to them if they can stop them from being able to pirate them first, but there is simply too much evidence that says that will never happen, or at least be a drop in the bucket if it does. So in making these decisions they only accomplish one thing.. screw the people actually willing to buy their product and possibly destroy other markets in the process.

It's apparent to me now that these big publishers will just need to learn things the hard way like the music industry did.

 

[Lazlo Panaflex]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: wanderer27
So, in their infinite wisdom, (from my perspective) they're killing the (big) PC game market, and they're taking down the Hardware market with them.

Maybe the HW manufacturers need to have a little talk with them . . . .

I agree. By including unnecessary DRM they may be causing a ripple effect that they might not be aware of. Publishers main goal is to generate a higher profit. Unfortunately this is often their only priority and other considerations get left at the dock. I have a feeling the people making these DRM decisions are sold on them because they truly believe they will stop piracy and generate more income.. and in theory it seems that they would.

..but we know this will never happen, and that's because lots of us here actually know that any protection will be cracked because we understand how computers work. The decision makers at these publishing companies most likely do not understand this. I can't fault them for thinking they may be able to tap into the piracy crowd and actually sell games to them if they can stop them from being able to pirate them first, but there is simply too much evidence that says that will never happen, or at least be a drop in the bucket if it does. So in making these decisions they only accomplish one thing.. screw the people actually willing to buy their product and possibly destroy other markets in the process.

It's apparent to me now that these big publishers will just need to learn things the hard way like the music industry did.

I agree 110%. I've been a rabid PC Gamer for a long time (since the good ol' DOS days), and was looking at picking up several recent FPS...but the DRM was the deal killer. I have no interest in upgrading my hardware anytime soon, either. So there definitely is a ripple effect, at least in my case. And hell will freeze over before I get pushed into console gaming.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: wanderer27
So, in their infinite wisdom, (from my perspective) they're killing the (big) PC game market, and they're taking down the Hardware market with them.

Maybe the HW manufacturers need to have a little talk with them . . . .

I agree. By including unnecessary DRM they may be causing a ripple effect that they might not be aware of. Publishers main goal is to generate a higher profit. Unfortunately this is often their only priority and other considerations get left at the dock. I have a feeling the people making these DRM decisions are sold on them because they truly believe they will stop piracy and generate more income.. and in theory it seems that they would.

..but we know this will never happen, and that's because lots of us here actually know that any protection will be cracked because we understand how computers work. The decision makers at these publishing companies most likely do not understand this. I can't fault them for thinking they may be able to tap into the piracy crowd and actually sell games to them if they can stop them from being able to pirate them first, but there is simply too much evidence that says that will never happen, or at least be a drop in the bucket if it does. So in making these decisions they only accomplish one thing.. screw the people actually willing to buy their product and possibly destroy other markets in the process.

It's apparent to me now that these big publishers will just need to learn things the hard way like the music industry did.

Like Lazlo, I also agree completely with Wanderer and mindcycle. I have friends who now game exclusively on the XBOX and, despite the fact that I recently upgraded my rig, I would hestitate to recommend this course of action in the current clime of draconian security measures. Perhaps, as Wanderer has suggested, ATI/AMD, Nvidia, and Intel might want to have a word with EA, Atari et al. This is certainly a sad state of affairs for everyone involved.

On a side note, in the related thread http://forums.anandtech.com/me...erthread=y&STARTPAGE=5, friend mindcycle has pointed out that Dark Athena uses a customised version of TAGES, rather than Securom, as I stated a few posts back. Just wanted to clarify, before I am accused of lying and spreading misinformation, again.

 

[NoWhereM]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Just wanted to clarify, before I am accused of lying and spreading misinformation, again.

I wouldn't worry about it. Anyone actually reading through these threads already knows exactly who is spreading misinformation.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: NoWhereM

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Just wanted to clarify, before I am accused of lying and spreading misinformation, again.

I wouldn't worry about it. Anyone actually reading through these threads already knows exactly who is spreading misinformation.

 

[ielmox]

Thank you for this highly informative thread and for sticking with it. When I started gaming, the rule of thumb was that the original version worked if you could afford it, and the pirated version of the same game probably did not work well at all, but was really cheap or even free.

For the past few years, people have been complaining that the original version of a game often works a good deal less well than the "free" version of the same game. If anything, this is driving consumers into the open arms of pirates. Why should intrusive and secretive software install itself on your PC simply because you were forced to accept a draconian and convoluted licence agrement that no one ever bothers to read?

I am proud to pay a fair price for a fair product and thereby support the owner of the IP. But when the owner of the IP makes my life difficult and sells me a product that is made inferior thanks to the DRM in it, and even has a risk of damaging my property, I will say no thanks and look at alternatives.

Unfortunately every "alternative" - whether it is a pirated product or the non-Securom offering of a competitor - results in a negative outcome for the IP owner. No matter how you look at it, DRM hurts everyone.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: ielmox
Thank you for this highly informative thread and for sticking with it. When I started gaming, the rule of thumb was that the original version worked if you could afford it, and the pirated version of the same game probably did not work well at all, but was really cheap or even free.

For the past few years, people have been complaining that the original version of a game often works a good deal less well than the "free" version of the same game. If anything, this is driving consumers into the open arms of pirates. Why should intrusive and secretive software install itself on your PC simply because you were forced to accept a draconian and convoluted licence agrement that no one ever bothers to read?

I am proud to pay a fair price for a fair product and thereby support the owner of the IP. But when the owner of the IP makes my life difficult and sells me a product that is made inferior thanks to the DRM in it, and even has a risk of damaging my property, I will say no thanks and look at alternatives.

Unfortunately every "alternative" - whether it is a pirated product or the non-Securom offering of a competitor - results in a negative outcome for the IP owner. No matter how you look at it, DRM hurts everyone.

You are welcome, but I would rather thank you for taking the trouble to add your voice.

I agree with you on all counts, the companies employing Securom are slowly but surely strangling themselves, the wider pc gaming industry and, as others have pointed out above, the hardware industry. I wonder how long it will take for the executives to have a "eureka" moment in the boardroom. Possibly, everyone will have been conveniently herded on to the next generation of consoles before that ever happens.

 

[Lazlo Panaflex]

Thank you for this highly informative thread and for sticking with it.

I second that! :beer:

 

[mindcycle]

ECA Chief to Game Industry: Standardize EULAs, Disclose DRM

Pretty good article, here are some of the parts I thought were interesting.

He listed three suggestions to the FTC. First, "DRM should be disclosed," he explained, meaning consumers should be able to easily identify on the outside of a game box a logo or icon that denotes DRM software contained within. Second, the ECA suggested a "simplification and standardization of the end user license agreement" (EULA). This way you "can understand what you're buying," and understand what rights and responsibilities you have as a consumer. Finally, "We also would like to with the FTC," Halpin explained. "We're transitioning from packaged goods to digital and licensed issues" and the industry has never encountered a problem like this before.

Over the past year, two games in particular were at the center of this DRM controversy. The first was Will Wright's Spore. While highly anticipated, the restrictive DRM software angered a lot of consumers. Some chose to not buy the game and others stole to intentionally pirate it as a way to express their anger to Electronic Arts, Spore's publisher.

Halpin has watched Spore's story closely. "Spore was an important moment of time," he concedes, "It showed publishers it wasn't just a groundswell of gamer backlash" that was affecting sales, it was something much larger. Electronic Arts eventually made some of the DRM software less restrictive, but its initial reaction was deemed dismissive by many and this "led to more of a backlash" as a result.

Spore "marked the first back and forth" between consumers and publishers on the issue of DRM. People were beginning to listen.

Part of the problem with regulating the video game industry is that it's very different than music and film. It took an awkward decade for the respective industries to figure out market prices and in the mean time consumers pretty much did what they wanted, he explains. But "Video gamers are more vocal, [and] can focus on a solution." He hopes that by having a seat at the able the ECA can make the transition much better for consumers and publishers.

 

[wanderer27]

He listed three suggestions to the FTC. First, "DRM should be disclosed," he explained, meaning consumers should be able to easily identify on the outside of a game box a logo or icon that denotes DRM software contained within. Second, the ECA suggested a "simplification and standardization of the end user license agreement" (EULA). This way you "can understand what you're buying," and understand what rights and responsibilities you have as a consumer. Finally, "We also would like to with the FTC," Halpin explained. "We're transitioning from packaged goods to digital and licensed issues" and the industry has never encountered a problem like this before.

Problem is, EA Marketing dept will probably do this:

New and improved ! ! !

Now with Draconian DRM ! ! !

Free ! ! !

Once trust is lost it's not coming back easy, and these Co's have definitely abused it.