SCOTUS struck down DOMA

[fskimospy]

What's the point of crafting and enacting laws by people we elect to office if they can simply be overturned by the courts?

I have no dog in this fight so I could care less either way. But I just wonder if we don't like a law and we can go get what we want by getting a judge (or judges) to change it, what is the point of laws in the first place?

Yeah, what IS the point of having three branches of government?

 

[frowertr]

I forgot, all you guys with smart ass mouths are poly sci majors. That is why you hang out in the Anandtech forums and ridicule members who ask honest questions.

Big smart tough guys on the internet. LOL.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Johnofsheffield, and I'm calling him out, has probably nothing but anti-religious bones in his body, and stubbornly and vehemently voices his hate and opposition at every corner.

This is rich, we have had some debates and it always ends up with you throwing out strawman after strawman because obviously what i say isn't what you hear.

Try reading what i say instead of just translating it into hate in your head.

I have NO problems with personal religions as long as people understand that it's PERSONAL and that you can't use it to try to discriminate against others because of it.

I'm also extremely tired of the Christian persecution complex that so many suffer from "we can't ban this because of my religion, waaaah, i'm discriminated against" and if someone disagrees it's because they hate you...

 

[soulcougher73]

I forgot, all you guys with smart ass mouths are poly sci majors. That is why you hang out in the Anandtech forums and ridicule members who ask honest questions.

Big smart tough guys on the internet. LOL.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

In before the "if the majority ruled, there would be no interracial marriage" fallacy.

Thunder stolen!

Do you know what a fallacy is? It seems not.

The statement "if the majority ruled, there would be no interracial marriage" isn't a fallacy but a statement of fact.

At the time (1967) the anti-miscenegation laws were very much supported and had the SC not ruled them unconstitutional but rather left it up for a vote they would not have been repealed.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I forgot, all you guys with smart ass mouths are poly sci majors. That is why you hang out in the Anandtech forums and ridicule members who ask honest questions.

Big smart tough guys on the internet. LOL.

You don't even have to be American to know that communes or states cannot make laws that go against the highest law of the land ( in this case the US constitution as interpreted by the SC) regardless of what people want.

If you want to do that you'll need to amend the constitution.

 

[Retro Rob]

Their are lots of things i dont like but i would never tell other people they cannot do these things, UNLESS what they are doing is infringing on my rights or others rights.

There is a way to test this theory of yours out -- try it at home, then you can at least have something other than unfounded opinion to present to our President.

A household can have a similar configuration as a Government; you have rule-makers (parents/homeowners) and subjects (children and/or adult people living with you). Now, for an indefinite time frame, allow your kids/residents to do "whatever they want as long as they don't infringe upon the rights of the others within your household" and see how that works out for you.

This can be a really good case-study if you think limiting oversight and minimizing rules/laws would actually make life better for your household.

Seriously, try this out. In fact, it could be a reality show where hidden cameras are placed throughout your home without your knowledge so that you can't fake it.

 

[SlickSnake]

I was talking about your emotional rant about "religiotards" and your new found "holier than thou" attitude since you got want you wanted. Absent from gay threads all this time, and now you feel the need to call people retarded because of the ruling? Not surprised.

Now, I have no problem with gay people at all, but they've really tricked people into thinking they're the innocent persecuted minority. Have we quickly forgotten all the bastard children gay men have with straight women because they were "closet" gays and instead of taking responsibility for their lies to their kids and former wives, they blame "us" for "forcing" them into hiding? We forced you to marry a woman, have kids, then leave them for your new found love?

I have a co-worker so mad at his daughter's ex-fiancé because he waited till the day of their wedding to tell her he was "gay", and to no surprise, she was heartbroken because he called the wedding off. He lied for 3 years to her.

Some time ago, I posted an article on here that showed some statistics, from the CDC IIRC, that 40% of new HIV cases are cause by gay men and their reckless and promiscuous lifestyle -- so before we all go falling over ourselves and praising gay marriage and calling more conservative people "religiotards", look at how you've done harm to you fellow man, and all the lies and hurt you've cause.

I didn't want to bring this up, but I refuse to be unfairly bashed (directly or indirectly) when your "kind" have done its share of harm and hurt to people.

Un-phucking believable.

I really don't know where to start and carry out all the trash here.

Tricking people into thinking we are the persecuted minority? Bastard children and gays? Wedding bell blues because the gay ran away at the last minute? HIV-AIDS? Really??? You even wanted to go there too, like you have absolutely no idea where AIDS even came from???

And then this little nugget of cheap hypocritical wisdom:

"I didn't want to bring this up, but I refuse to be unfairly bashed (directly or indirectly) when your "kind" have done its share of harm and hurt to people."

As I said before, Un-phucking believable.

How am I even expected to defend for the gays any of this hypocritical idiocy here without mentioning the fact that straight people are responsible for the majority (at least 80%) of all these problems you listed in the first place?

UN-PHUCKING BELIEVABLE.

By the way, since I am sick of the "gays deserve HIV-AIDS because GOD hates you" BS, here's a few fun facts you don't want to hear.

HIV-AIDS came from a CDC promoted hepatitis vaccine that was contaminated with HIV from the green monkeys it was cultured from. The only reason mostly gays seemed to get it first in the US, was because the medical community recommended that gays get the vaccine because of their "risky lifestyles".

But it was the contaminated vaccine itself that actually killed them, not their "risky lifestyles". But HIV-AIDS was contagious and that only helped to spread it further.

HIV-AIDS is just as easily transmitted in straight relationships as gay ones. So don't try to kid yourself otherwise. In Africa, where these same hepatitis vaccines were given to nearly everyone, HIV does not discriminate based on sexual preferences, and most people there who have it, are overwhelmingly straight.

 

[Retro Rob]

Un-phucking believable.

I know, sorry to break this to you. At any rate, I accidentally erased your God hates gays comment because actually I agree with you, believe it or not.

Sounds like you're attributing a quote to me that I didn't say -- I know where AIDS came from, I also don't believe AIDS is some Divine retribution for homosexuals either, so its total garbage. I did say that, nor implied such a ridiculous notion.

Don't put words in my mouth...

 

[Brainonska511]

HIV-AIDS came from a CDC promoted hepatitis vaccine that was contaminated with HIV from the green monkeys it was cultured from. The only reason mostly gays seemed to get it first in the US, was because the medical community recommended that gays get the vaccine because of their "risky lifestyles".

Got a scientifically accurate link to back that up?

 

[bradly1101]

Zoologicaly it's about fairness. Simian species (maybe others) have an instinctual need for fairness.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=-KSryJXDpZo&desktop_uri=/watch?v=-KSryJXDpZo

 

[SlickSnake]

Got a scientifically accurate link to back that up?

Yes, I do, is your google broken?

http://www.originofaids.com/articles/early.htm

And even written by a doctor, is that good enough for you? And this particular article has only been around for 11 YEARS, so naturally you never saw it before. There has been other more recent medical revelations about this, too.

 

[Brainonska511]

Yes, I do, is your google broken?

You made the assertion. It's on you to back it up. As far as I can tell at the moment, you're full of shit.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

There is a way to test this theory of yours out -- try it at home, then you can at least have something other than unfounded opinion to present to our President.

A household can have a similar configuration as a Government; you have rule-makers (parents/homeowners) and subjects (children and/or adult people living with you). Now, for an indefinite time frame, allow your kids/residents to do "whatever they want as long as they don't infringe upon the rights of the others within your household" and see how that works out for you.

This can be a really good case-study if you think limiting oversight and minimizing rules/laws would actually make life better for your household.

Seriously, try this out. In fact, it could be a reality show where hidden cameras are placed throughout your home without your knowledge so that you can't fake it.

So you believe that residents in your nation are like children and it's the governments job to raise them?

There is not really any good analogy you can come up with but this has to be the worst possible.

 

[SlickSnake]

You made the assertion. It's on you to back it up. As far as I can tell at the moment, you're full of shit.

I wish I was full of shit. Since I know a huge number of gay people who are now dead from the late 70's who had had this vaccine, and even recommeneded it to me, who then got sick and died within months of taking it, in some cases. Most of the gay people I knew from that era are dead now. At the time the cause and effects of the hepatitis vaccines did not dawn on me. But nevertheless, I never received one, or we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now. It makes me not want to go to my class reunions, too.

 

[bradly1101]

You even wanted to go there too, like you have absolutely no idea where AIDS even came from???

And The Band Played On covered it quite well.

The experts believe that it jumped species from monkeys when someone cut themselves while slaughtering one.

That may have first happened over half a century ago.

Turns out 'patient zero' was a promiscuous flight attendant, so it spread fast.

In Africa it's not associated with gay at all. That's an uninformed reaction based on the first population to be affected. So it's understandable.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_the_Band_Played_On

The movie was good.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Yes, I do, is your google broken?

http://www.originofaids.com/articles/early.htm

And even written by a doctor, is that good enough for you? And this particular article has only been around for 11 YEARS, so naturally you never saw it before. There has been other more recent medical revelations about this, too.

1. I don't know if i should take a dentists word for it, especially one that makes money off of snake oil homeopathic/nutrapathic products.

2. Love the site, AIDS is cured with their natural products and so is any other disease, just be sure to pay plenty for their water in a bottle.

LMAO, "it's even written by a doctor"... He's a former dentist that started making money off of snake oil after an HIV scandal involving another dentist.

"Horowitz is the most publicized proponent of the conspiracy theory that HIV was deliberately designed by US military lab in the 1970s for use as a genocidal weapon. The scientific consensus is that HIV is a variation of simian immunodeficiency virus that crossed into humans and mutated into a virus lethal to humans."

 

[SlickSnake]

And The Band Played On covered it quite well.

The experts believe that it jumped species from monkeys when someone cut themselves while slaughtering one.

That may have first happened over half a century ago.

Turns out 'patient zero' was a promiscuous flight attendant, so it spread fast.

In Africa it's not associated with gay at all. That's an uninformed reaction based on the first population to be affected. So it's understandable.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_the_Band_Played_On

The movie was good.

Yep, it was, I hadn't seen that in a while, I need to add that to my que again.

Undoubtedly in Africa HIV has also been spread by other means, such as by eating primates found already dead or sickened and then either by undercooking or preparing them while making contact with primate blood which then gets into cuts or other orifices on the Africans and infecting them.

 

[SlickSnake]

1. I don't know if i should take a dentists word for it, especially one that makes money off of snake oil homeopathic/nutrapathic products.

2. Love the site, AIDS is cured with their natural products and so is any other disease, just be sure to pay plenty for their water in a bottle.

LMAO, "it's even written by a doctor"... He's a former dentist that started making money off of snake oil after an HIV scandal involving another dentist.

"Horowitz is the most publicized proponent of the conspiracy theory that HIV was deliberately designed by US military lab in the 1970s for use as a genocidal weapon. The scientific consensus is that HIV is a variation of simian immunodeficiency virus that crossed into humans and mutated into a virus lethal to humans."

I do not doubt what my own personal experiences with HIV-AIDS have confirmed by my own observations. As I said, at the time I did not make the connection between the hepatitis vaccines and HIV-AIDS even though people I knew who had the vaccines died within months or in some cases around a year after having it. Most of the people who got HIV back in the day, also died very quickly after the infection. Obviously since it was contagious, not everyone who died might have had the vaccine, too.

All I can tell you with hindsight is I was encouraged at the time to get it, by my dead friends, but since I wasn't promiscuous, I didn't feel the need for it.

HIV-AIDS timeline:

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/hivaids/research/vaccines/Pages/history.aspx

Most of the gay people I knew who had the vaccine were dead before 1982. And most of them were not even 20 years old at the time.

 

[bradly1101]

Yep, it was, I hadn't seen that in a while, I need to add that to my que again.

Undoubtedly in Africa HIV has also been spread by other means, such as by eating primates found already dead or sickened and then either by undercooking or preparing them while making contact with primate blood which then gets into cuts or other orifices on the Africans and infecting them.

I don't think there's much of a risk eating the virus. It has to be blood to blood or bodily fluid to blood.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I do not doubt what my own personal experiences with HIV-AIDS have confirmed by my own observations. As I said, at the time I did not make the connection between the hepatitis vaccines and HIV-AIDS even though people I knew who had the vaccines died within months or in some cases around a year after having it. Most of the people who got HIV back in the day, also died very quickly after the infection. Obviously since it was contagious, not everyone who died might have had the vaccine, too.

All I can tell you with hindsight is I was encouraged at the time to get it, by my dead friends, but since I wasn't promiscuous, I didn't feel the need for it.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that such a small part of the patients that recieved the innoculations were affected by the HIV that was apparently in this vaccine?

Also, it's not possible to contract HIV, develop AIDS and die from it in "within months" or even "a year", it takes 3 to 20 years for it to progress from being infected with HIV to developing AIDS.

So it's safe to say that that none of them were infected by the vaccinations.

 

[SlickSnake]

Doesn't it seem strange to you that such a small part of the patients that recieved the innoculations were affected by the HIV that was apparently in this vaccine?

Also, it's not possible to contract HIV, develop AIDS and die from it in "within months" or even "a year", it takes 3 to 20 years for it to progress from being infected with HIV to developing AIDS.

So it's safe to say that that none of them were infected by the vaccinations.

That's not true. Many people once infected died quite quickly. Their immune systems just shut down completely after they were overwhelmed by the virus and some other opportunistic infection. And many people who died of it before 1982, and maybe even later than that, were not listed as death by HIV, either. It was listed as death by unknown causes or an unknown autoimmune disease or even in some cases a drug overdose. And I don't know if any of these earlier deaths were ever properly researched and reclassified, either. But I can assure you I saw people dying quite quickly from it "after symptoms appeared" and the cause of death listed was wrong at the time.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

That's not true. Many people once infected died quite quickly. Their immune systems just shut down completely after they were overwhelmed by the virus and some other opportunistic infection. And many people who died of it before 1982, and maybe even later than that, were not listed as death by HIV, either. It was listed as death by unknown causes or an unknown autoimmune disease or even in some cases a drug overdose. And I don't know if any of these earlier deaths were ever properly researched and reclassified, either. But I can assure you I saw people dying quite quickly from it "after symptoms appeared" and the cause of death listed was wrong at the time.

No.

In every single known case of infection of HIV-1 and HIV-2 it has taken between 3-20 years between infection and development of AIDS with an average of 8 years.

The thing is, when you get infected some get sick from the effects, kinda like a mild case of the flu, after that there is a long time (3-20 years) before you even notice the effects of the virus again. At that time the CD4 T-cells have reached a count where you have developed AIDS, death can happen from secondary infections at that point.

So either you are saying that these people were not infected with HIV or you are saying that they were infected with a type of HIV that is completely different from HIV-1 and HIV-2.

When first infected you can get secondary infections of other viruses but at this point your immune system would not be overwhelmed any more than if you caught the flue without the HIV virus being present.

The cases you're referring to were after the immune system was compromised, after 3-20 years.

Everything about this is well established, this is the most studied virus in the history of mankind and the accumulated knowledge is readibly available in peer reviewed studies so there is no need to resort to personal experiences that you can't even confirm yourself (since you don't have the medical expertise) or the words of a naturopath dentist who makes a living selling snake oil and conspiracy theory fiction books.

 

[SlickSnake]

No.

In every single known case of infection of HIV-1 and HIV-2 it has taken between 3-20 years between infection and development of AIDS with an average of 8 years.

The thing is, when you get infected some get sick from the effects, kinda like a mild case of the flu, after that there is a long time (3-20 years) before you even notice the effects of the virus again. At that time the CD4 T-cells have reached a count where you have developed AIDS, death can happen from secondary infections at that point.

So either you are saying that these people were not infected with HIV or you are saying that they were infected with a type of HIV that is completely different from HIV-1 and HIV-2.

When first infected you can get secondary infections of other viruses but at this point your immune system would not be overwhelmed any more than if you caught the flue without the HIV virus being present.

The cases you're referring to were after the immune system was compromised, after 3-20 years.

Everything about this is well established, this is the most studied virus in the history of mankind and the accumulated knowledge is readibly available in peer reviewed studies so there is no need to resort to personal experiences that you can't even confirm yourself (since you don't have the medical expertise) or the words of a naturopath dentist who makes a living selling snake oil and conspiracy theory fiction books.

The difference would be the fact they received HIV from the possibly tainted hepatitis vaccine, whereas the latter groups who survived and were finally studied did not receive HIV like that, but from transmission from someone else who had it, after it possibly had already mutated somewhat. Do you really think getting HIV from a vaccine from a monkey who is already infected with it won't also have other infections already present in the monkeys in the vaccines, too?

For arguments sake, let's say they not only took that hepatitis vaccine, but they also got several others in a vaccine cocktail or had other vaccines near the same time they got the hepatitis one. So they are then starting off their HIV infections where their bodies are now fighting off multiple immune infections, and not just the latent infections and mutations that occur after the HIV is in their systems from a contagious transmission source.

 

[SlickSnake]

And there was a recent 2 hour special on PBS about a handful of survivors of the original HIV infections and how quickly some of their friends and partners died after being infected, or rather, after they started showing symptoms of the infections. I did a few searches on PBS's site and couldn't find what I watched a few months ago, but it completely confirmed my personal experiences before HIV was "discovered" as a cause.

And I regret that this marriage topic turned into this HIV subject, for obvious personal reasons, and really would rather not comment on this further.