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SCOTUS hearing on Roe V Wade

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dank69 said:
Nah, if souls = consciousness then animals would have souls as well so that doesn't work for the storm chaser.
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JD50 said:
We have a word for consciousness, it's consciousness. No need to muddy the waters and pretend that is the same thing as a soul.
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So animals don't have a soul? Dogs don't cry? Cats dont fuzzy rub against nice people?

Embryos are soulless as they do not have a consciousness, nor does a fetus. Its only after they can hear and kick inside the mother do they have a consciousness thus a soul.
 
Democrats can easily win this case, if they can object everytime Mississippi representatives in the case bring up an argument from the Bible or any other holy text, by saying "Objection! The Bible nor any other holy text is valid in the court room due to the rule of seperation of state and church. Furthermore the court can not use religion or faith in determining the judgement for the same reason. Thus the case should not be about if abortion is moral or not, but rather is it murder or not."
 
SMOGZINN said:
I seriously doubt that. I don't think anyone goes 'Oh, I'm pregnant. Should I have an abortion. Let's see, who is in the President again?'
No, in fact right now abortion is illegal in more places in the US then it has been since Roe v Wade, so abortions are almost certainly way down.
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It is very real and important to recognize that this does in fact go on. You don't think PP is in the business of making money? You think they are killing our future generations out of the goodness of their own heart? LOL

#FUBAR
 
Amol S. said:
So animals don't have a soul? Dogs don't cry? Cats dont fuzzy rub against nice people?

Embryos are soulless as they do not have a consciousness, nor does a fetus. Its only after they can hear and kick inside the mother do they have a consciousness thus a soul.
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No, there's no such thing as a soul as it's commonly defined, if you believe there is please define it and demonstrate that it exists.
 
Storm-Chaser said:
It is very real and important to recognize that this does in fact go on. You don't think PP is in the business of making money? You think they are killing our future generations out of the goodness of their own heart? LOL

#FUBAR
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Who cares if they are making money? They are providing vital public services such as abortion.

By the way, prepared to admit your previous statements were false yet? You can just say 'I was wrong' and move on, you'll feel better after being honest.
 
JD50 said:
No, there's no such thing as a soul as it's commonly defined, if you believe there is please define it and demonstrate that it exists.
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What he seems to be referring to as the 'soul' is the limbic system, which is essentially the part of the brain that allows mammals to intuit the emotional state of other mammals. (among many other things). It's why when you look in a dog's eyes you get a sense of how they're feeling but if you look at a fish's eye - nothing.

In case it needs to be said - we should not call the limbic system a soul.
 
fskimospy said:
What he seems to be referring to as the 'soul' is the limbic system, which is essentially the part of the brain that allows mammals to intuit the emotional state of other mammals. (among many other things). It's why when you look in a dog's eyes you get a sense of how they're feeling but if you look at a fish's eye - nothing.

In case it needs to be said - we should not call the limbic system a soul.
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Exactly. He originally wanted to call consciousness a soul. There's no reason to call these things a soul, they already have names and it's not what religious folks are talking about anyways.
 
fskimospy said:
Who cares if they are making money? They are providing vital public services such as abortion.

By the way, prepared to admit your previous statements were false yet? You can just say 'I was wrong' and move on, you'll feel better after being honest.
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Planned Parenthood is a 501(c)(3).

I'm going to stress again that the poster is not engaging in good faith, so don't expect much in the way of meaningful responses, only further dragging.
 
nakedfrog said:
Planned Parenthood is a 501(c)(3).

I'm going to stress again that the poster is not engaging in good faith, so don't expect much in the way of meaningful responses, only further dragging.
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Lots of nonprofits make what amounts to profits in reality. For example Harvard is a 'nonprofit' that has somehow amassed more than $53 billion in assets.
 
Storm-Chaser said:
It is very real and important to recognize that this does in fact go on. You don't think PP is in the business of making money? You think they are killing our future generations out of the goodness of their own heart? LOL

#FUBAR
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Wait, what goes on? That people take into consideration who is the President when making decisions on if to have an abortion or not? Are you mental?

No, Planned Parenthood is not in the business of making money. They are a non-profit, and they are one of the good ones that is actually providing valuable services to their community. Abortions is minor part of their practice. Many PP Clinics don't even offer abortion services. They provide a lot of reproductive services that a lot of people would not have reasonable access to otherwise. Stuff like prenatal care, STD screenings, Pregnancy Testing, Childbirth Classes, Postpartum Exams, Fertility Awareness Education, Adoption Referrals and Services, Testicular and Prostate Cancer Screening, Vasectomies, HIV Testing and education, as well as birth control education and assistance. All at minimal costs. I find it amazing that so many people are so against them when they do so much good work.
 
SMOGZINN said:
Wait, what goes on? That people take into consideration who is the President when making decisions on if to have an abortion or not? Are you mental?

No, Planned Parenthood is not in the business of making money. They are a non-profit, and they are one of the good ones that is actually providing valuable services to their community. Abortions is minor part of their practice. Many PP Clinics don't even offer abortion services. They provide a lot of reproductive services that a lot of people would not have reasonable access to otherwise. Stuff like prenatal care, STD screenings, Pregnancy Testing, Childbirth Classes, Postpartum Exams, Fertility Awareness Education, Adoption Referrals and Services, Testicular and Prostate Cancer Screening, Vasectomies, HIV Testing and education, as well as birth control education and assistance. All at minimal costs. I find it amazing that so many people are so against them when they do so much good work.
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Bad people are against organizations that do good work. It's simple. There is not a complicated logic behind this
 
SMOGZINN said:
Wait, what goes on? That people take into consideration who is the President when making decisions on if to have an abortion or not? Are you mental?

No, Planned Parenthood is not in the business of making money. They are a non-profit, and they are one of the good ones that is actually providing valuable services to their community. Abortions is minor part of their practice. Many PP Clinics don't even offer abortion services. They provide a lot of reproductive services that a lot of people would not have reasonable access to otherwise. Stuff like prenatal care, STD screenings, Pregnancy Testing, Childbirth Classes, Postpartum Exams, Fertility Awareness Education, Adoption Referrals and Services, Testicular and Prostate Cancer Screening, Vasectomies, HIV Testing and education, as well as birth control education and assistance. All at minimal costs. I find it amazing that so many people are so against them when they do so much good work.
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Dear GODS, you mean a place named Planned Parenthood does things for people who are planning to become parents too?
 
TheVrolok said:
Burden of proof is not on me, nor necessary. You have objective evidence of a soul? What need is there of a soul?
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If you don't want to be taken for a fool I would suggest backing up your supposition with evidence (that's generally how this debate thing works).

For example, a few pages back people were telling me it was preposterous to believe that China had weaponized COVID as a biological weapon. After demanding evidence and then supplying it, they all shut up real quick.

So try to shut me down. Go ahead, lets see what you got.
 
cytg111 said:
Grow the fuck up.
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I'm already an adult, unlike yourself.

fskimospy said:
By the way, prepared to admit your previous statements were false yet? You can just say 'I was wrong' and move on, you'll feel better after being honest.
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I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong name a thing or two if you are right I'll give you the win for that thing. But if you are keeping track, it's still 10 on 1 and I'm still winning.

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Ajay said:
The fetus' right to life is completely dependent, for survival, on protection and life sustaining nutrition and oxygen provided by it's mother's womb. Without that, it's life would be snuffed out. I wouldn't say that this means the mother's rights are secondary by definition, but as a consequence of the realities of human life. I suppose one could consider this 'secondary' right subordinate for the good of our race and our mutual survival. I consider it mute, that the distinction doesn't matter. It's a simply physical reality in the cycle of human life.

The right to a kidney from some who's life isn't directly dependent of any one individual. That which isn't part of that special and unique relationship between a mother and her unborn child or any other special relationship That would be confiscatory. It is, ofc, tragic, if one cannot acquire a kidney from some kind donor. Such is our lot, based on our own nature (not being willing to make such sacrifices). On the plus side, advancements is medical science have made dialysis more viable for longer periods of time, extending the opportunity for someone in need of a kidney to find one. We live strange lives where we want to do good, but fail to do so. It's like we have forgotten what even the ancient Greeks knew, that the virtues are essential to a just society.
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Why on earth would it matter if the right to life is dependent on a specific individual vs any individual? Why would that have any bearing on a person's right to life taking precedence over another person's bodily autonomy? Either you believe a person's right to their own body takes precedence over another individual's claim to it or you don't.

The fact that you are unwilling to take a firm stance on this makes it appear that you only believe men have a right to bodily autonomy, and not women, so you try to couch it as a special, unique case.
 
thilanliyan said:
Riiiight...cause Trump is a bastion of truth.
You've been had.
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Or he could look it up

www.cdc.gov

Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2019

This report summarizes U.S. data on the number of legal induced abortions and abortion-related deaths in 2019.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

While abortions decrease overall from 2010 to 2019, they increased for some demographics from 2018-2019.

The more important aspect to keep in mind is that Roe vs Wade seemed to spur a better version of sexual education instead of abstinence only.

Abortions are less and less each year, better education, contraception, people willing to talk about it, etc,,,has changed our country for the better

www.statista.com

Infographic: U.S. Abortion Rate Ticks Up After Three-Decade Decline

This chart show the abortion rate in the U.S. between 1973 and 2020 as calculated by the Guttmacher Institute.
www.statista.com www.statista.com

Conservatives that want to ignore facts and numbers and instead rely on their feels are a problem.
 
Storm-Chaser said:
Right because if you were killing human beings, there would be a public outcry and pp doctors would all be thrown in jail for 1st degree murder charges. Under no circumstances can people / the public know what you are actually doing behind closed doors. And again, 38 states do recognize the baby just like the mother, in utero. Also, if a baby and mother are killed / murdered the police will charge the suspect with 2 counts of murder, making planned parenthoods idea that it's not a human being preposterous.
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You are right, if people were killing human beings, there would be a public outcry. But they aren't, so there isn't.

And please provide the legal language of the 38 states. I almost guarantee they don't recognize the fetus as a baby. Are they counting the fetus in census data? Does the family get tax benefits for the fetus? The the fetus get any form of legal recognition? Please support this claim.

59% of Americans think abortion should be legal, so there is that.
 
Storm-Chaser said:
How can you be so sure that souls do not exist?
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If you are talking about how one feels ( well one does not feel anything after death) but how ones consciousness (wait I didn't get that right as one can't be conscious after death), I think I got it now, how one experiences things after their death, are you calling that a soul? Then I agree with you, but those souls do not exist on planet earth nor in the visible universe. This is because after death, this so called soul is sent to either heaven, hell, or purgatory. There is no such thing as a souls before one dies.
 
I wonder what would be "someones" take on Storm-Chaser... or is "Storm-Chaser" actually "someones"'s new account, and they are the same person.
Just an FYI Storm-Chaser ... there is a rule on the forum of having no more than one account per person.
 
Storm-Chaser said:
If you don't want to be taken for a fool I would suggest backing up your supposition with evidence (that's generally how this debate thing works).
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Firstly, the existence of a soul is a supposition. Not believing in something without evidence of existence is the default state.

That aside, you are asking for evidence of the non existence of something?

Sounds like you're the one that doesn't understand how "this debate thing works."

You can simply admit that you have faith in the existence of a soul, but have no objective evidence of its existence. Unfortunately, that doesn't put you on firm ground for subsequent arguments built on faith alone.
 
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