SCOTUS hearing on Roe V Wade

[MrSquished]

Wow, authoritarian religious nuts are authoritarian religious nuts regardless of faith.

I missed that part. The man bears no responsibility for an unwanted pregnancy, even though it's often men who fight condom use the most or don't do pull out properly. My ex was on the pill when she got pregnant, her fault I'm sure to these cretins. But it goes hand in hand with his statement that a woman not having kids is a second class person and not really fulfilling their duty as a living being.

The guy is just an unevolved sexist pig. Like so many of his kind. It's like their brains stopped evolving, along with their souls

 

[fskimospy]

I don't know about other churches, but they Catholic church considered the issue in it's earliest days
Of course, there was a lesser need for churches to be more strident in their opposition to abortion until it legally became the law of the land in 1973 (in the US) - except for the Baptists, apparently.

The Catholic Church was always against it but evangelical protestants weren't. edit: sorry, not always against it, but has been pretty consistently against it for a long time before Roe.
Edit: sorry, not always against it but against it pretty consistently for a long time before Roe.

While I'm sure that abortion's salience increased after Roe v. Wade it doesn't change the fact that plenty of evangelical denominations were either ambivalent or actively pro-choice before switching positions. As mentioned, the Southern Baptists came out with a number of statements AFTER Roe was decided affirming their belief in a woman's right to choose. The history of evangelicals' switch on the issue is pretty dark, depending on how cynical you think various evangelical leaders were.

 

[brycejones]

I missed that part. The man bears no responsibility for an unwanted pregnancy, even though it's often men who fight condom use the most or don't do pull out properly. My ex was on the pill when she got pregnant, her fault I'm sure to these cretins. But it goes hand in hand with his statement that a woman not having kids is a second class person and not really fulfilling their duty as a living being.

The guy is just an unevolved sexist pig. Like so many of his kind. It's like their brains stopped evolving, along with their souls

It makes his comments about Sharia law funny/not funny for sure.

 

[MrSquished]

It makes his comments about Sharia law funny/not funny for sure.

This girl I went on a few dates with told me about her brother's friend who still hangs out with her family on occasion up here. Her brother moved to Florida but his friend is still up here , and is all alone for the holidays because his divorced wife and kid are I think in Virginia. So they felt bad and had him over for Thanksgiving, though I think it's probably his last one.

Anyways, he is a big trumpy, with the 2024 sticker on his car and everything. And everything. So she mentioned how at Thanksgiving dinner all the dumb shit he was saying, including that women shouldn't be able to vote. A lot of these conservatives that are religious are very backwards in regards to the sexes. I mean they really are pigs, just like Trump.

 

[brycejones]

The history of evangelicals' switch on the issue is pretty dark, depending on how cynical you think various evangelical leaders were.

COVID has proven many evangelical leaders extremely cynical. To the point of risking the lives of their parishioners to get them in the building to ensure the donations keep flowing.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

Lol “noble”, there’s nothing noble about denying a woman the right to have autonomy over her own body.

That's called blame shifting. You are blaming the unborn baby for the actions of the mother. A two year old knowns that logic is busted. Stop with the irrational arguments.

Oh that's right, it's opposite day. Murdering unborn, or born, defenseless children that can fit in the palm of your hand is really the best medicine for society. You believe a lie, and you are very deceived, but it's not your fault. They've pumped the whole "abortion is good for society" line for so long people just accept them at their word like it's not doing untold damage to our future generations.

And guys... we can continue this debate but lets just keep our cool here there is enough conflict to go around we don't need anymore heat just stay focused on the debate keep personal attacks out of the picture please.

 

[fskimospy]

COVID has proven many evangelical leaders extremely cynical. To the point of risking the lives of their parishioners to get them in the building to ensure the donations keep flowing.

There's a decent argument to be made that the primary cause of the shift was a search for a wedge issue by people interested in keeping religious schools segregated. Basically they were afraid they were going to lose their tax exempt status for refusing to let black people in so they mobilized around abortion because you can't explicitly mobilize around racism as easily.

The Real Origins of the Religious Right

They’ll tell you it was abortion. Sorry, the historical record’s clear: It was segregation.

www.politico.com

 

[Storm-Chaser]

"McCorvey had entered a Catholic boarding school... "

I'm shocked, *shocked* that she might have ended up with pro-life beliefs! Next someone will try to convince me that they teach people to believe in God there.

"... and added that she continued to have abortion-rights beliefs."

take a hike, @Storm-Chaser .

Im not kidding. She totally rejected abortion later in her life, her baby was never aborted, she had a spiritual awakening, followed God, and became a Christian and an outspoken advocate against the use of abortion in society, by exposing the lies that started with the deceptions of Roe v Wade. They don't want you to know this, because it's obviously contrary to their entire "pitch" regarding the abortion debate. It's also very very damaging to have the key figure in the entire court case totally flip on abortion adovcates.

 

[cytg111]

That's called blame shifting. You are blaming the unborn baby for the actions of the mother. A two year old knowns that logic is busted. Stop with the irrational arguments.

Oh that's right, it's opposite day. Murdering unborn, or born, defenseless children that can fit in the palm of your hand is really the best medicine for society. You believe a lie, and you are very deceived, but it's not your fault. They've pumped the whole "abortion is good for society" line for so long people just accept them at their word like it's not doing untold damage to our future generations.

And guys... we can continue this debate but lets just keep our cool here there is enough conflict to go around we don't need anymore heat just stay focused on the debate keep personal attacks out of the picture please.

View attachment 53923

What exactly makes that lump of barely connected cells magical?
In a cost-benefit perspective that capital way better spend elsewhere if you wanna collect up on that karma to get a guaranteed entry into heaven ticket.
Why are you kicking down on poor women? I dont think Jesus likes what you're doing very much, in fact, you're probably going straight to hell.
Why is it always the true believers that kick the defenseless? Its a pattern. Cant fck them in the ass, at least I can fck them some other way.
Anyway. Be the shining example, wont you? Start your holy quest at the top and once that is done, work your way down.

Shame on you.

 

[fskimospy]

Im not kidding. She totally rejected abortion later in her life, her baby was never aborted, she had a spiritual awakening, followed God, and became a Christian and an outspoken advocate against the use of abortion in society, by exposing the lies that started with the deceptions of Roe v Wade. They don't want you to know this, because it's obviously contrary to their entire "pitch" regarding the abortion debate. It's also very very damaging to have the key figure in the entire court case totally flip on abortion adovcates.

I have some bad news for you, friend. She never changed her mind - right wing religious groups paid her a bunch of money to claim she did. Not very moral of them.

The woman behind 'Roe vs. Wade' didn't change her mind on abortion. She was paid

Norma McCorvey, also known as 'Jane Roe,' says she was paid to be an antiabortion activist in a new documentary filmed before her death.

www.latimes.com

 

[JD50]

Im not kidding. She totally rejected abortion later in her life, her baby was never aborted, she had a spiritual awakening, followed God, and became a Christian and an outspoken advocate against the use of abortion in society, by exposing the lies that started with the deceptions of Roe v Wade. They don't want you to know this, because it's obviously contrary to their entire "pitch" regarding the abortion debate. It's also very very damaging to have the key figure in the entire court case totally flip on abortion adovcates.

Who gives a fuck about her?

 

[MrSquished]

The great thing about these anti-choice fake pro-life religious loons is they put out their hypocrisy so blatantly. They are mostly republican, and those consider pretty much any social policy to help make life better, especially for those on the edge, as communist and socialist. You must carry that zygote to term! But healthcare access for all, including the pregnant mom and then the child she must be enslaved to bear, FUCK HEALTHCARE FOR YOU THAT"s COMMUNISM! Affordable daycare and education! COMMUNISM! Affordable housing? MARXIST! Living wages to make raising a family easier, VENEZUELA! And on and on and on.

They'll say they are speaking for those who don't have a voice, the fetus. Yeah like that dirt poor mommy has much of a voice, or that 1 month or 1 year old baby either. Bullshit. That argument is nonsensical.

They give two shits about the sanctity of life, it's just a way to control women, which this latest loon straight up admitted:

Right, leading a selfish, baron life as a women is so much more redeeming and valuable than any other role that a women might play in this lifetime.

Now if someone is for progressive social policies and is anti-choice, at least they have a somewhat consistent view on how they view life synonymously with potential life. We may disagree on enslaving women to conception and a zygote but at least they have ideological consistency. But the conservative religious anti-choice people are horrific.

 

[Ajay]

That's a bit of an oversimplification. Abortion has been rationalized in different ways by the Catholic Church, with some periods of outright bans, while other periods with acceptance up until the timing of "ensoulment." That date had been moved around throughout the centuries, with some of the basis on quickening. Just between Popes Sixtus V and Gregory XIV, they flipped-flopped on the issue in about a five year period. They have been a bit more consistent since the 19th century, but that's different from trying to claim consistency for 2000 years.

I agree with you. The early church ( < 500AD) was often more on point than the ~ millennium after that time period.

Pope Innocent XI put the kibosh on the ensoulment debate. Pope Pius IX removed the distinction between 'animated' vs 'un-aminated', resulting in all abortions being deemed a grave sin. Not saying the church has been perfect. Certainly before scientific evidence on fetal development started to come to light in the 18th century, it was pretty hard to square the theology off without knowledge of the inner workings of human beings.

 

[thilanliyan]

The great thing about these anti-choice fake pro-life religious loons is they put out their hypocrisy so blatantly. They are mostly republican, and those consider pretty much any social policy to help make life better, especially for those on the edge, as communist and socialist. You must carry that zygote to term! But healthcare access for all, including the pregnant mom and then the child she must be enslaved to bear, FUCK HEALTHCARE FOR YOU THAT"s COMMUNISM! Affordable daycare and education! COMMUNISM! Affordable housing? MARXIST! Living wages to make raising a family easier, VENEZUELA! And on and on and on.

This is my only contention with "pro-life" people. If you're gonna be "pro-life" at least be "pro-life" for a person's WHOLE life...not just until birth. Any sort of social assistance is communism to the hypocritical "pro-lifers". That's not right, and considering most of them are religious, it's very "un-God-like" to be against helping the less fortunate.

 

[HomerJS]

I think the left is dreaming. They operate as if all the bad things that will happen if Roe is lost is somehow important to the argument. But to a conservative life is full of evil, evil done by liberals and not conservatives. There is one primary sin and that is to treat life as if it were not sacred, that each person born is a person with a soul created by God within, and that to murder that soul is the highest evil there is. To allow the state to allow people to commit that form of murder makes them complicit and they will not have that. Whatever evil befalls others is their problem to deal with. Whatever sin others commit they are responsible for but state sponsored murder drags them right into it. They refuse to belong to a state that kills people because that also makes them killers. There can be no higher priority for them than not to be that.

Look at what you feel about living in a state that would force you to place the of value of a piece of hamburger meat above the life of yourself, your sister, your wife or your daughter.

This whole issue exists, in my opinion, because the simplest way to to think today and scientifically, is that human life begins at the moment of conception. That notion is utterly compelling and utterly devastating, which is why the Jews of old had the great good sense and, I think, compassion not to conceive of the beginning of life at the first moment it can be detected. So many fetuses would die before being born so many misfortunes befall pregnant women, that to imagine all of these unborn to be ensouled would have produce so much more by way of crushing sorrow.

The problem then is one that is generated by fundamentalist religious belief, belief that is full of absolute principles, principles not shared by people of different religious or non religious origin. It is an issue of religious entitlement, the certainty that one's own personal certainty should prevail over the certainty of others.

I do not know the answer to this while i believe I know some things that it isn't, but I can see that the greatest danger to Christianity in America is it's will to dominate in politics. I can't help but anticipate, that more and more as time goes on, more and more will begin to see them as the enemy within.

Sounds like the pro-life defense violates the separation of church and state. The entire defense of a fertilized egg being a person is based strictly on religion.

 

[HomerJS]

A compromise I have long favored, with extremists on either side pushing back that it just isn't right for them.

Considering the record for earliest viability birth is 21 weeks why is 16 reasonable?

 

[Paratus]

Im not kidding. She totally rejected abortion later in her life, her baby was never aborted, she had a spiritual awakening, followed God, and became a Christian and an outspoken advocate against the use of abortion in society, by exposing the lies that started with the deceptions of Roe v Wade. They don't want you to know this, because it's obviously contrary to their entire "pitch" regarding the abortion debate. It's also very very damaging to have the key figure in the entire court case totally flip on abortion adovcates.

That’s not entirely accurate which is of course why you rabid pro-lifers are also such huge hypocrites.

The chance of a pregnancy ending in spontaneous abortion runs from Russian Roulette odds to basically the same risk as taking an abortifacient depending on the age of the parents at conception.

Did you know that? That trying to have a kid in your 40’s results in abortion at the same chance as taking an abortion pill?

Of course that’s different. The woman taking the abortion pill only aborts one pregnancy while the “good” pro-lifers will keep aborting pregnancies until a child is born.

This is one reason why I don’t believe you when you say you hate abortion. It’s obvious your fine with it

You also say it’s because you care about kids but of course you and the church are fine with raped 9 year olds being forced to potentially die in childbirth. So I don’t believe you there.

I mean there’s nothing you claim is fundamental to the pro-life position you guys actually follow so why should we be forced to follow it?

 

[nakedfrog]

Im not kidding. She totally rejected abortion later in her life, her baby was never aborted, she had a spiritual awakening, followed God, and became a Christian and an outspoken advocate against the use of abortion in society, by exposing the lies that started with the deceptions of Roe v Wade. They don't want you to know this, because it's obviously contrary to their entire "pitch" regarding the abortion debate. It's also very very damaging to have the key figure in the entire court case totally flip on abortion adovcates.

Guess that explains why every single conception results in a healthy child, yeah?

 

[mikeymikec]

Guess that explains why every single conception results in a healthy child, yeah?

And that without the advances in medical science, pregnancy presented a very good chance of also being a death sentence for the mother...

They don't want you to know

Jesus Christ, do you have any idea how much of a lunatic this makes you look? Furthermore, even if there was a "they" and proof to suggest some kind of conspiracy somehow somewhere in the world, I still believe in women having rights over their own bodies.

Also, if you're going to attempt a rebuttal, try actually citing evidence. I doubt you even read the wikipedia article, your response to my point certainly suggests you didn't.

And spare me the stupid little "dead baby" images. I believe in the sanctity of life and I consider myself a lefty, which is why I believe in supporting those in need throughout their lives, including women who need more options than religious fanatics and conservatives are willing to offer them. I'd vote for anyone in a second who was committed to setting up a utopia where abortion becomes an extreme rarity because people are educated, provided for if necessary, supported by the system in the case of sexual assault rather than blamed and ostracized.

 

[IronWing]

This nation has Christian roots, but we have turned away from God. The only protection that can keep us safe and sound. And in the absence of God's protection, we only get one thing: A curse from the prince of darkness.

^ "The majority of Americans disagree with me on my pet issue so we are cursed, cursed I say."

Grow the fuck up.

 

[HomerJS]

That's called blame shifting. You are blaming the unborn baby for the actions of the mother. A two year old knowns that logic is busted. Stop with the irrational arguments.

Oh that's right, it's opposite day. Murdering unborn, or born, defenseless children that can fit in the palm of your hand is really the best medicine for society. You believe a lie, and you are very deceived, but it's not your fault. They've pumped the whole "abortion is good for society" line for so long people just accept them at their word like it's not doing untold damage to our future generations.

And guys... we can continue this debate but lets just keep our cool here there is enough conflict to go around we don't need anymore heat just stay focused on the debate keep personal attacks out of the picture please.

View attachment 53923

However murdering the born is acceptable when healthcare workers are not required to wear masks and they give babies COVID.

 

[Moonbeam]

Sounds like the pro-life defense violates the separation of church and state. The entire defense of a fertilized egg being a person is based strictly on religion.

No kidding. The abortion issue to my mind is a tremendous example of the joke we tell ourselves about the lack of bias in the Supreme court. The present day court is visibly inventing new legal interpretations of law to justify deeply inculcated religious beliefs. Thhey destroyed the country when they voted in President Bush and now they may take another bite at knocking off Roe. They will get all the help they need, apparently, from the two wack jobs Manchin and Sinema.

 

[MrSquished]

^ "The majority of Americans disagree with me on my pet issue so we are cursed, cursed I say."

Grow the fuck up.

This nation has roots in slavery, but we have turned away from that. I mean that's a good thing right? Just because American founders had some roots in something doesn't mean shit in an of itself. It could be good just as it has often turned out to be very not good. It's just a terrible argument for people with no critical thinking skills.

 

[Ajay]

Of course that’s different. The woman taking the abortion pill only aborts one pregnancy while the “good” pro-lifers will keep aborting pregnancies until a child is born.

You've posted this before and it's a fallacy. The women experiencing spontaneous abortion aren't 'choosing' to have an abortion. It's just a consequence of aging. Most miscarriages in young women are due to genetic defects or failure of the women's body to adequately ramp up the necessary hormones. All of this is just a consequence of our biology. There is no extant relationship to abortion pills at all.

 

[mect]

Thank you for this:

What are we forcing women to do exactly? Other than murder their unborn children, I mean? See what I did there?

*facepalm*

View attachment 53896

Dude, you forgot to include male masturbation on your chart. That dwarfs RvW. You should drop the abortion cause and start campaigning against male masturbation. Every sperm is sacred.