Obviously. However, the statement which prompted my post is this one (also posted above): Not to ignore the fact those accusations against Ritter hold no water, he wasnt charged with anything either.
Obviously. However, the statement which prompted my post is this one (also posted above): Not to ignore the fact those accusations against Ritter hold no water, he wasnt charged with anything either.
sMiLeYz
Platinum Member
- Feb 3, 2003
- 2,696
- 0
- 76
Scott Ritter's charges against him has NOTHING to do with his valid criticism of G. W Bush except it's an attack on his character.
I can attack people's character too!
Did you know between George Bush and Cheney have three DUI's between them not to mention Bush snorted coke?
Well I bet you did already, but it doesnt have anything to do with George Bush's presidency.
Our drug addict president
I wonder if Bush was drunk or high when he ordered an attack on Iraq?
I can attack people's character too!
Did you know between George Bush and Cheney have three DUI's between them not to mention Bush snorted coke?
Well I bet you did already, but it doesnt have anything to do with George Bush's presidency.
Our drug addict president
I wonder if Bush was drunk or high when he ordered an attack on Iraq?
A couple of quick points:
The Bush administration has absolutely, inarguably "played on fear" to push through its repressive agenda. How do you think we got the so-called PATRIOT Act, The Department of Homeland Security, all of the political detainees being held without due process, etc.?
So, you are saying that after 9/11 the United States has nothing else to worry about, and we should go about conducting "business as usual"?
And, by the way, they are not political detainees. The legal definition of their status is illegal combatants.
Bush doesn't have to "conduct" the attacks to take advantage of them. He grabbed the opportunity to deflect attention from his poor domestic performance, derail investigations in corporate scandals tied to his administration, and give John Ashcroft a fascist's greatest birthday present ever.
Regardless of the veracity of your assertions, they in no way implicitly paint President Bush as comparable to Hitler. That was my point.
How do the actions of corporate accountants somehow implicate the current administration, especially since the fraud went on under the previous administration as well, and I see no leveling of blame there? Are black helicopters delivering Republican GAAP guidelines to corporate accountants around the country?
I took a look around the other day, and I saw an article about car bombs in Riyadh targeted at Americans and other Westerners. Tell me: Have you ever critisized the government for failing to heed intelligence indications and warnings prior to 9/11?
The Bush administration has absolutely, inarguably "played on fear" to push through its repressive agenda. How do you think we got the so-called PATRIOT Act, The Department of Homeland Security, all of the political detainees being held without due process, etc.?
So, you are saying that after 9/11 the United States has nothing else to worry about, and we should go about conducting "business as usual"?
And, by the way, they are not political detainees. The legal definition of their status is illegal combatants.
Bush doesn't have to "conduct" the attacks to take advantage of them. He grabbed the opportunity to deflect attention from his poor domestic performance, derail investigations in corporate scandals tied to his administration, and give John Ashcroft a fascist's greatest birthday present ever.
Regardless of the veracity of your assertions, they in no way implicitly paint President Bush as comparable to Hitler. That was my point.
How do the actions of corporate accountants somehow implicate the current administration, especially since the fraud went on under the previous administration as well, and I see no leveling of blame there? Are black helicopters delivering Republican GAAP guidelines to corporate accountants around the country?
I took a look around the other day, and I saw an article about car bombs in Riyadh targeted at Americans and other Westerners. Tell me: Have you ever critisized the government for failing to heed intelligence indications and warnings prior to 9/11?
sMiLeYz
Platinum Member
- Feb 3, 2003
- 2,696
- 0
- 76
Of course... multiple times. It was a unforgivable massive failure of intelligence, and someone should be held responsible too bad that the white house isnt cooperating with the investigation.
Whitehouse stonewalling investigation
Don't be so sure. It does shed a little light on his judgment and his character. If pedophelia is not a character issue, then there is no such thing.
As for "valid criticism", I haven't heard any from Ritter. Keep in mind that this guy was a die hard critic of the Iraqi regime right up until the time he started taking money from an Iraqi sympathizer for a "documentary" about Iraq. He went from lambasting Saddam and the inspection process, saying that Iraq had WMD and was violating UN resolutions, to suddenly declaring that Saddam no longer had WMD and that the inspections were no longer needed.
I'll agree with you that we don't need to resort to talking about Ritter's preference for young girls to discredit him -- his own past is more than adequate to do that absolutely.
Ok, ok, ok. Ritter's full of it. Bush doesn't compare ot Hitler nearly as closely as he compares to Benito Mussolini.
You cannot have it both ways. Either the US must take actions to prevent something like 9/11 from recurring, or it has to gird itself for future attacks which will happen. You expect the government to protect us from future attacks, but then you critisize it for taking steps to achieve that goal, namely the Patriot Act, the Department of Homeland Security, etc.
That article you cite is one of the most singularly useless pieces of trash I have read in quite some time, but it's salon.com so I guess I shouldn't surprised. It is quite easy to pinpoint "obvious" information after the fact because you know what to look for. If I gave you a fifty page document packed with misinformation, lies, boasts, and one true statement, I bet you wouldn't be able to pinpoint that true statement. Ever hear the adage, "hindsight is 20/20"? You might want to investigate the reality behind that statement.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
No, I obviously said nothing of the sort.
The people I'm referring to were not combatants of any sort; they are U.S. residents - often citizens - who are whisked away without notice or explanation. Though now that you mention it, the so-called "legal" definition of illegal combatant is a rather shameful way to avoid our responsibilities to treat prisoners of war in accordance with the Geneva Convention. Another example of how Bush & Co. place themselves above the law.
As I said originally, "We aren't there yet, but there are sure some disturbing parallels."
Because those corporate accountants worked for people like Dick Cheney and Bush's buddy, advisor, and frequent puppetmaster, Kenneth Lay.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
Sorry, no sale. While PATRIOT is a great tool for violating Americans' civil liberties, it has little to do with terrorism. Its primary effect is removing the checks and balances that discourage abuse by bad cops. The Department of Homeland Security is a joke, a perfect example of how "more government" is the problem, not the solution. Yes, we needed to focus more attention and resources on law enforcement to prevent another 9/11. We didn't need to gut the Bill of Rights and add more layers of bureaucracy.
Whey you'z got gangrene in da leg ya cut da leg off. Dat's DA way ya treat gangrene. Dat's DA way my great Grandpappy done it too. It hoits ta lose a leg, but der ain't no sense in complaining cause dat's da way it is. See. Same wit da Patriot Act.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
Thank you for your informative and constructive response. It's nice to see a Bush-worshipper who doesn't resort to empty innuendo and personal attacks as a first resort. Your well-formed analysis of the benefits of the PATRIOT Act are quite persuasive.
Of course, you might want to share them with us some time. Until then, you're wasting electrons.
Such as the Yemenis from Buffalo?
I am glad that you are so confident in your legal expertise that you know more than the Supreme Court. That is, after all, where the definition of "illegal combatant" was created, and it's not been refuted since. I suggest you look up the Ex Parte Quirin case from 1942. So, actually it must have been FDR & Co. that placed themselves above the law, eh?
So, you're just providing worthless criticism without any ideas as to what should be done? Or, am I missing something?
There's always fodder for those looking for conspiracy theories.
All evil comes from Republicans. I forgot -- thanks for reminding me.
It's terribly ironic that you would critisize someone for not listing the benefits of the Patriot Act when you yourself have done nothing but summarily denounce the same law without any examples of the law in action or even quotes from the law itself.
Hehe, the Homeland Security Agency, the Republicans promised would never be politicized was use to track the plane of the Texas Democratic legislaturor to find out where the Democrats went. Wow, we are becomming a Nazi state. Just imagine of Clinton had done that. Oh, we didn't know? When you are right, you don't have to worry about corruption. It can't be you.
Remarks by Gov. Rick Perry on Walkout by House Democrats
May. 13, 2003
"Yesterday, more than 50 Democrat legislators ground the Legislature to a halt by walking away from the job millions of Texans elected them to do.
By taking refuge in Oklahoma, they are silencing debate on important issues, undermining our system of democracy and running out on millions of everyday Texans who are depending on their representation.
Important issues are now in jeopardy.
For example, the Democrat walkout endangers a bill that gets tougher on child pornography, a bill that protects teachers from student assaults, a bill that will provide basic health care for tens of thousands of poor, uninsured Texans and bills that make state government more efficient and save taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars.
And with less than three weeks left in this legislative session, legislators have yet to send me a balanced budget, meaningful homeowners insurance reform that lowers rates, and a medical malpractice bill that will protect patient care in Texas.
These are serious issues that require a serious debate. But instead of helping to pass these reforms, Democrats are now blocking them.
...."
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
I've started reading this document, and I am frankly very surprised. Before you liberals get all frothy at the mouth, I am very surprised by the exceptionally shoddy nature of the document, and the evidence the ACLU (or as I call them, Defenders of NAMBLA) presents as evidence of "Freedom under Fire".
Where to start? There are so many inaccuracies...
I'm on page 11, and I've already seen two or three references to the guy who was protesting at a suburban mall and was kicked out of the mall by security. The ACLU, and the press incidentally, have cited this instance as a case where "dissent was silenced" yet the issue was that the guy was harrassing people inside the mall, which is private property by the way, with his "message" in violation of the rules set forth by the mall itself. The real injustice in that case was that the security guard who kicked the @sshole out was fired from his job. Way to stand up for the little people, ACLU!
There's never any mention by the ACLU whether anyone maced or detained while in the process of protesting was engaged in any sort of violent or disorderly conduct. I suspect that's the case but of course the ACLU overlooks that aspect (actually they don't address it any way).
The place where I've stopped so far is at the story about Pleasantville, NJ. The ACLU cites Pleasantville's parade ordinance as evidence of "freedom under fire", yet they make no mention of when the ordinance was created. I have seen reports of similar parade permit requirements from many other places in the country, and when they have been used against groups such as the KKK, they are considered wonderful.
On a final note, the initial letter by the ACLU director speaks volumes. When people disagree with the government, they are freedom loving heroes. When people disagree with those critisizing the government, including the Dixie Chicks, they are "threatening freedom". If that's not a duplicitous message, I don't know what is. I guess it's now "freedom of speech (for critics of the government only)". I have the feeling that the ACLU would defend al-Qaida as a "political organization" which expresses dissent by other than vocal means.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
Oh yeah, without a doubt.
And there are always people who bury their head in the sand until it's too late. Let's hope there are enough of us paying attention to prevent a repeat of history.
Also obviously not what I said, but you carefully avoid the issue I raised by changing the subject ... again.
First, the cynically named PATRIOT act was NOT the subject, it was your claim that Bush hasn't "played on fear" after 9/11. He obviously has. I gave three quick examples, but you changed the subject to avoid the issue (yet again).
Second, your defense of PATRIOT is pathetic. It is almost universally recognized as one of the most odious pieces of legislation ever foisted upon the American public. Even people in this forum who generally support Bush have expressed their disagreement with PATRIOT and Ashcroft. Only the most slavish Bush idolaters defend PATRIOT. You obviously will stand by your man no matter what; there isn't anything any of us can say to open your eyes.
To each his own.
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