Scientists in search of the God particle may find more than they bargained for!

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Micro black holes evaporate, geeeezzzz! For the same reason neutron star matter could not exist on the Earth.

Correction: All black holes evaporate. The large ones give off Hawking radiation as well, but since they are so massive to begin with (being massive stars that collapsed on themselves) that it takes a very long time. A really small one would be gone almost instantly.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: BZeto
Honestly who really cares about any of this?

Ok, you can be the first to try out the black hole then. :thumbsup:

Who would like to be next? :evil:

It doesn't matter. If they destroy Earth and kill us all it'll all happen so fast that none of us will ever know.

Actually, the destruction will happen in stages, most likely. It will gather mass or rather destroy mass and get larger and larger. We will be well aware what is happening for a while before we finally get destroyed in some really icky manner. The Earth may implode or explode in phases, for example. But only after nasty earthquakes and such ring the planet. They are searching for the "big bang" God particles. Don't you think this is kind of fool hardy when you can't turn them OFF if you stumble upon chains of them in formation while being created?

Black holes evaporate via hawking radiation. If a black hole was created, it would be so small that nothing would happen and it would be gone almost instantly. Jeff7 had a great post on the whole nonsense that you're article is spouting.

WOW. He can link to an article and use google just like I can. He does it all the time. It hardly makes him a theoretical physics genius. :roll:

But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :thumbsup:

 

[silverpig]

Okay, so several years ago during my GR class I gave a talk on the possibility of creating a black hole in a particle accelerator.

If you only allow 3 space dimensions and 1 time (the ones we know and love) then there is NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER of LHC producing a black hole. The LHC will operate at a few TeV (tera electron volts... trillion electron volts). In physics terms that's actually a mass (TeV/c^2). A gold atom is about 200 GeV (that's 0.2 TeV). So the heaviest particle that LHC could produce is that of a small number of gold atoms. If you go through the calculations of what kind of energy you'd need in order to produce a black hole in 4-dimensional space-time, the number is 10^19 GeV. I'll write out some numbers:

Energy of LHC:
~5 000 000 000 000 eV

Energy required to produce a black hole:
10 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 eV.

Not even in the ball park. Nowhere close.

The only way LHC has a snowball's chance in hell of making a black hole is if we add a lot of extra spatial dimensions, something which we have absolutely no evidence for.

Even if there are extra dimensions, and even if there are enough of them of a large enough size, and even if everything works out and a black hole is produced, it will be so tiny and so weak it won't be able to do anything. The electrostatic repulsion of it to the other protons will be stronger than the gravitational pull exerted by the black hole on them. Even still, the black hole will evaporate in about the amount of time it takes for light to cross it (at fractions of a billionth of a meter, that's short, even to particle physicists). Basically the black hole will form, the right side will look over, and see the left side is also a black hole, they'll say "Oh damn! I'm outta here!" and it'll decay. That's it.

Yeah it's boring. Nothing exciting will happen at LHC unless you're a physicist and can really appreciate it.

 

[SlickSnake]

We are not just talking about the possibility of making a black hole here, obviously. But that is what the article was infering. What they are hunting for is theoretical hypothetical particles. The author is infering a black hole as a possible result. Personally, I wasn't really worried about that aspect.

It's the possibility of weaponizing this research that really bothers me. But the fact remains they may stumble upon particles or forces that they can not control, whatever the outcome might be. You can't just turn off the machine if things get out of control. And they obviously have no backup plan if things go awry, except to turn it off, and get the hell out of there.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
We are not just talking about the possibility of making a black hole here, obviously. But that is what the article was infering. What they are hunting for is theoretical hypothetical particles. The author is infering a black hole as a possible result. Personally, I wasn't really worried about that aspect.

It's the possibility of weaponizing this research that really bothers me. But the fact remains they may stumble upon particles or forces that they can not control, whatever the outcome might be. You can't just turn off the machine if things get out of control. And they obviously have no backup plan if things go awry, except to turn it off, and get the hell out of there.

Many things can be weaponized, but many things can also be used for the masses. Sure, splitting the atom brought us the atomic bomb, but it also brought us a greater understanding of the world around us as well as nuclear energy.

If you're so worried about weaponization, we should stop all research. You could probably turn research in cancer into some kind of weapon as well. In fact, let's all go live in caves and be oblivious as to how the world around us works.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
We are not just talking about the possibility of making a black hole here, obviously. But that is what the article was infering. What they are hunting for is theoretical hypothetical particles. The author is infering a black hole as a possible result. Personally, I wasn't really worried about that aspect.

It's the possibility of weaponizing this research that really bothers me. But the fact remains they may stumble upon particles or forces that they can not control, whatever the outcome might be. You can't just turn off the machine if things get out of control. And they obviously have no backup plan if things go awry, except to turn it off, and get the hell out of there.

Many things can be weaponized, but many things can also be used for the masses. Sure, splitting the atom brought us the atomic bomb, but it also brought us a greater understanding of the world around us as well as nuclear energy.

If you're so worried about weaponization, we should stop all research. You could probably turn research in cancer into some kind of weapon as well. In fact, let's all go live in caves and be oblivious as to how the world around us works.

Also the atomic bomb was inevitable. Many people were working on it simultaneously. Knowledge is infectious. You retard progress in favor of temporary safety at your own risk. If you don't let the best and brightest do it, it will be done anyway, except by Russia in a facility constructed from Folgers cans and insulated with Levi Jeans.

And ironically, it's this very kind of scare-mongering that prevents us from using nuclear energy on a larger scale in this country. What's that you say? Chernobyl? Chernobyl was Russian. Need I say more?

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
"Besides, the random nature of quantum physics means that there is always a minuscule, but nonzero, chance of anything occurring, including that the new collider could spit out man-eating dragons."

FUCKING BADASS!

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
We are not just talking about the possibility of making a black hole here, obviously. But that is what the article was infering. What they are hunting for is theoretical hypothetical particles. The author is infering a black hole as a possible result. Personally, I wasn't really worried about that aspect.

It's the possibility of weaponizing this research that really bothers me. But the fact remains they may stumble upon particles or forces that they can not control, whatever the outcome might be. You can't just turn off the machine if things get out of control. And they obviously have no backup plan if things go awry, except to turn it off, and get the hell out of there.

Many things can be weaponized, but many things can also be used for the masses. Sure, splitting the atom brought us the atomic bomb, but it also brought us a greater understanding of the world around us as well as nuclear energy.

If you're so worried about weaponization, we should stop all research. You could probably turn research in cancer into some kind of weapon as well. In fact, let's all go live in caves and be oblivious as to how the world around us works.

And I'm sure the trillions spent to weaponize space will really benefit mankind, as well. I just can't wait for the cure for cancer to come from that scientific boondoggle.

The problem is scientists accept no responsibility for the technology they give us, or rather the taxpayers pay for. The military industrial complex is the benificiary of all this wasted taxpayer money 99% of the time. Then the private corporate sector gets all the patents and rights for taxpayer funded research projects. So the taxpayers get screwed that same 99% of the time, in the process.

All that pie in the sky feel good for humanity science community research BS is just that. You can paint as many smiley faces on the atomic bombs as you want to, the deadly effects are still the same. This large hadron collider project is 100% military in nature. But the scientists consider themselves civilians. So what?

The only way mankind will benefit at all from this project, is if the scientists destroy themselves in the process. I just hope they are not stupid enough to take us with it. But we will see. Give them a few years to tweak it a bit first. Then, once they get too cocky and careless, KERPOW!

And using the stupid fire and cave analogies made by various posters is a pretty weak juvenile argument to try to excuse scientific research for the obvious purposes of weaponizing and enslaving mankind, not helping it.

 

[Eeezee]

*sigh* REPOST

And besides, this is the same group that comes out and predicts doom and gloom for EVERY big particle experiment. They spout some nonsense that doesn't have any scientific grounding every few years. They'll go away when the LHC turns on and nothing nasty happens.

To the naysayers, the LHC required scientists to figure out how to effectively build several kilometers of superconductor. That had never been done before and was a big technological achievement that will be sure to benefit everyone eventually.

Science for the sake of science has increased the quality of life more than anything else, even if you don't realize it.

 

[SlickSnake]

Arsenal of Hypocrisy

The posted article was not a repost. You saw the date on it, right? Most topics here in off topic get pushed 10 pages deep 2 days after posting, and the search engine is screwed up. The only solution for this off topic cluster**** is if they separated the forum sections more. Sports, science and history, media, humor, personal problems, homemaking, paranormal, that kind of thing. But we all know that ain't gonna happen. So love it, or take it easy, Eeezee.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
This is the kind of misguided theoretical science that gave us the nuclear arms race.
...
This was the same fear that griped the first atomic scientists who gave us atomic warfare.

WTF, crack a book sometime before you open your mouth.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
This is the kind of misguided theoretical science that gave us the nuclear arms race.
...
This was the same fear that griped the first atomic scientists who gave us atomic warfare.

WTF, crack a book sometime before you open your mouth.

Ok, let's see...

A botfly maggot walks into a bar and sees a trichinosis larva sitting in the corner. So he crawls over and says "So buddy, I hear you really like pork."

The trichinosis larva looks him right in the spiracles and says "Indeed, I encyst upon it."

How's that?

 

[Alistar7]

Are we dead yet?

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
This is the kind of misguided theoretical science that gave us the nuclear arms race.
...
This was the same fear that griped the first atomic scientists who gave us atomic warfare.

WTF, crack a book sometime before you open your mouth.

Ok, let's see...

A botfly maggot walks into a bar and sees a trichinosis larva sitting in the corner. So he crawls over and says "So buddy, I hear you really like pork."

The trichinosis larva looks him right in the spiracles and says "Indeed, I encyst upon it."

How's that?

Hmm, multiple layers of plagarism...maybe you're cut out for academia after all.:thumbsup:

 

[PottedMeat]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

And I'm sure the trillions spent to weaponize space will really benefit mankind, as well. I just can't wait for the cure for cancer to come from that scientific boondoggle.

The problem is scientists accept no responsibility for the technology they give us, or rather the taxpayers pay for. The military industrial complex is the benificiary of all this wasted taxpayer money 99% of the time. Then the private corporate sector gets all the patents and rights for taxpayer funded research projects. So the taxpayers get screwed that same 99% of the time, in the process.

All that pie in the sky feel good for humanity science community research BS is just that. You can paint as many smiley faces on the atomic bombs as you want to, the deadly effects are still the same. This large hadron collider project is 100% military in nature. But the scientists consider themselves civilians. So what?

The only way mankind will benefit at all from this project, is if the scientists destroy themselves in the process. I just hope they are not stupid enough to take us with it. But we will see. Give them a few years to tweak it a bit first. Then, once they get too cocky and careless, KERPOW!

And using the stupid fire and cave analogies made by various posters is a pretty weak juvenile argument to try to excuse scientific research for the obvious purposes of weaponizing and enslaving mankind, not helping it.

Holy shit you're an idiot. Go back to your Monster Cable.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: Jeff7
"Besides, the random nature of quantum physics means that there is always a minuscule, but nonzero, chance of anything occurring, including that the new collider could spit out man-eating dragons."

FUCKING BADASS!

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) has suddenly become the LDC - Large Dragon Collider! Now you WILL see scientists running, screaming, from the facility.


BTW, Slicksnake - yeah, I linked to an article. I used it for ONE bit of information: How long it'd take for you to wait until Earth's subatomic particles disintegrated.

But guess what, that's all I used Google for. One number. Everything else, I wrote. Too bad you refuse to read any of it, or show a willingness to alleviate your ignorance on anything scientific. If junk science is what you want to believe, fine. Just don't clutter the boards with it.

 

[skace]

Fear mongering

 

[Joemoney]

How many more times does this need to be debunked?

They said the SAME thing when they built RHIC.
They said the SAME thing when they upgraded Tevatron.

This is an unfounded alarmist theory promoted by a small group of wanna-be scientists (Walter Wagner and a few others).

If a black hole was created (which it won't), it would be EVAPORATE via Hawking Radiation SO quickly, it wouldn't even expand fast enough to reach the walls of the Collider's chamber.

If Hawking Radiation failed to exist, the black hole would be SO small, it would take an EXTREMELY long time to "eat" anything.

This article was written by a journalist, NOT a scientist. Journalists know nothing and they propagate these nonsense alarmists theories because of their own misinformation. It's entertainment.

 

[DrPizza]

Silverpig, I thought I read an article within the last 2 years that they had evidence that they had created black holes? However, there's no way they have enough energy to create a stable black hole.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I want a stranglet powered flying car that shoots micro black holes in front of it. (would be a good way to cut down on my road rage.)
Should Dragons result from this research instead of stranglet powered flying cars, I would instead like a dragon.

Anyhow, there have been several "chicken little" posts about this collider in the last few months. The risks of any catastrophe are so low that they are practically negligible. The likely gains are enormous.

 

[Born2bwire]

SlickSnake's post only makes me love the LHC even more. Go science!

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: BZeto
Honestly who really cares about any of this?

I find it immensely interesting, I worked at particle accelerator for 4 years. The best work years of my life actually, too bad the money wasn't there for me to make a career of it.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: silverpig
...
Basically the black hole will form, the right side will look over, and see the left side is also a black hole, they'll say "Oh damn! I'm outta here!" and it'll decay. That's it.
...

"I exist, therefore I can't."

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
And I'm sure the trillions spent to weaponize space will really benefit mankind, as well. I just can't wait for the cure for cancer to come from that scientific boondoggle.

The problem is scientists accept no responsibility for the technology they give us, or rather the taxpayers pay for. The military industrial complex is the benificiary of all this wasted taxpayer money 99% of the time. Then the private corporate sector gets all the patents and rights for taxpayer funded research projects. So the taxpayers get screwed that same 99% of the time, in the process.

You probably are in favor of making firearms illegal, too. After all, the gun manufacturers give us weapons, with minimal responsibility for the technology they give us.
Alcohol manufacturers, too. They give us the stuff, they're not responsible for what we do with it. Anything made by anyone that could possibly be dangerous should be outlawed, unless the company sends a representative out to babysit you, so that you won't get hurt by their product.

All that pie in the sky feel good for humanity science community research BS is just that. You can paint as many smiley faces on the atomic bombs as you want to, the deadly effects are still the same. This large hadron collider project is 100% military in nature. But the scientists consider themselves civilians. So what?

Military? Maybe in 100 years. Maybe 50, who knows. Again, anything that has the potential to change the nature of something else, whether it be by simply vaporizing it from a huge release of energy, or making an environment unsuitable for life, to killing a single person through toxins, can be turned into a weapon. That probably means that, oh I don't know, 50% or more of all research done in the world could possibly lead to some kind of weapon.

The only way mankind will benefit at all from this project, is if the scientists destroy themselves in the process. I just hope they are not stupid enough to take us with it. But we will see. Give them a few years to tweak it a bit first. Then, once they get too cocky and careless, KERPOW!

Mhmm. Smile and nod.

And using the stupid fire and cave analogies made by various posters is a pretty weak juvenile argument to try to excuse scientific research for the obvious purposes of weaponizing and enslaving mankind, not helping it.

Really. Fail.
Juvenile? Why? It's quite true. Fire was an immense help to humanity. Of course, learning to control it also meant that we could destroy entire villages in short order by simply torching them. Sharp rocks were usable as tools, as were metal weapons. They also allowed us to build armies, and slaughter entire cities of people in war. Metalworking was once new technology, and many millions of people have died throughout the ages as a result of metallic war machines. You think this is totally irrelevant to modern problems? Too bad, because there's not much more I can do to explain it any more clearly. Once the nose on your own face becomes visible, try looking past it.

 

[JTsyo]

Slick, your problem is a political problem not a science one. Scientist aren't billionaires funding their own research in a quest for world domination. Politicians you elect are giving money to scientist and engineers to develop new weapons. Instead of trying to fight pure science you just be crusading against the engineering programs that attempts to create weapons from the pure science research. Of course that's probably all classified.

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: JTsyo
Slick, your problem is a political problem not a science one. Scientist aren't billionaires funding their own research in a quest for world domination. Politicians you elect are giving money to scientist and engineers to develop new weapons. Instead of trying to fight pure science you just be crusading against the engineering programs that attempts to create weapons from the pure science research. Of course that's probably all classified.

But DARPA is so nice to fund my research and they pay oh so well.