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Scientists discover Serotonin not found to be a major player in depression

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Medical News Site Source here

New evidence puts into doubt the long-standing belief that a deficiency in serotonin - a chemical messenger in the brain - plays a central role in depression. In the journal ACS Chemical Neuroscience, scientists report that mice lacking the ability to make serotonin in their brains (and thus should have been "depressed" by conventional wisdom) did not show depression-like symptoms.

Donald Kuhn and colleagues at the John D. Dingell VA Medical Center and Wayne State University School of Medicine note that depression poses a major public health problem. More than 350 million people suffer from it, according to the World Health Organization, and it is the leading cause of disability across the globe.

In the late 1980s, the now well-known antidepressant Prozac was introduced. The drug works mainly by increasing the amounts of one substance in the brain - serotonin. So scientists came to believe that boosting levels of the signaling molecule was the key to solving depression. Based on this idea, many other drugs to treat the condition entered the picture. But now researchers know that 60 to 70 percent of these patients continue to feel depressed, even while taking the drugs. Kuhn's team set out to study what role, if any, serotonin played in the condition.

To do this, they developed "knockout" mice that lacked the ability to produce serotonin in their brains. The scientists ran a battery of behavioral tests.

Interestingly, the mice were compulsive and extremely aggressive, but didn't show signs of depression-like symptoms. Another surprising finding is that when put under stress, the knockout mice behaved in the same way most of the normal mice did. Also, a subset of the knockout mice responded therapeutically to antidepressant medications in a similar manner to the normal mice. These findings further suggest that serotonin is not a major player in the condition, and different factors must be involved. These results could dramatically alter how the search for new antidepressants moves forward in the future, the researchers conclude.

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Well looks like pharmaceutical companies have been peddling drugs that are ineffective on depression after all!
 
It's not surprising that people want an easy way out of their depression. What easier way than to gobble a little pill?

But the easy way isn't usually the best or most effective way.

Depression is sometimes caused by someone's expectations of their life exceeding the reality they find themselves in.

There are 2 ways to solve this. Change the reality or change your expectations. Maybe a little of both.

Take a little pill? If only it were that easy.
 
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I was diagnosed with depression after a divorce many years ago. Was put on SSRIs, among other things they wanted me to try. I stopped taking the drugs because they didn't help, and had side effects. What worked was counseling .

Our drug fueled society is fucked in the head, first by the problem, and again by the drugs that are prescribed like candy.

Haven't some tin foil nutters been pointing at links to SSRIs and mass murderers? I wonder if those tin foilers will be proven right at some point...
 
Haven't some tin foil nutters been pointing at links to SSRIs and mass murderers? I wonder if those tin foilers will be proven right at some point...
Interestingly, the mice [without serotonin] were compulsive and extremely aggressive, but didn't show signs of depression-like symptoms.
That would seem to imply that a human who suddenly stops taking SSRIs would become compulsive and extremely aggressive. :hmm:
 
Most depression is caused by someone's expectations of their life exceeding the reality they find themselves in.

I tend to doubt it. Those unfulfilled expectations can certainly cause mood swings and moments of sadness, but most people have a natural ability to move past it and their moods soon swing the other way. Sustained depression seems to me much more likely to be caused by something in the machinery being off.
 
It's not surprising that people want an easy way out of their depression. What easier way than to gobble a little pill?

But the easy way isn't usually the best or most effective way.

Most depression is caused by someone's expectations of their life exceeding the reality they find themselves in.

There are 2 ways to solve this. Change the reality or change your expectations. Maybe a little of both.

Take a little pill? If only it were that easy.

I don't think you know a damn thing about depression.
 
Anything that 350 million people have cannot be a disorder. Its too common to be a disorder. Its called being human, and why people expect their brains to function in unnatural ways is pretty odd.
Any tree that doesn't stay green year round has a disorder. Lets fix them all.
 
There are definitely people whose moods are out of the norm, call it what you will. But I don't think it's very fair or smart for those who have not experienced true deep depression to be dismissive of it.
 
I was diagnosed with depression after a divorce many years ago. Was put on SSRIs, among other things they wanted me to try. I stopped taking the drugs because they didn't help, and had side effects. What worked was counseling .

Our drug fueled society is fucked in the head, first by the problem, and again by the drugs that are prescribed like candy.

Haven't some tin foil nutters been pointing at links to SSRIs and mass murderers? I wonder if those tin foilers will be proven right at some point...

Yea it seems on going behavioral therapy or counseling helps tremendously, but the insurance companies, including Medicare don't pay out much on one on one counseling anymore.

I wonder how much of that was because it was cheaper to have people take pills than the counseling?

I wonder if you are right about the "tin foil" folks and the possible link between some people having an adverse reaction to SSRI's and anger outbursts or lack of control? Interesting..
 
Mice.


MICE.



MICE.

LOL point taken, but do you trust drug companies to give us their REAL data and findings from human subjects? I don't and can only imagine if a product or pill can be sold as a "cure all" they aren't going to give us the real scientific data if it has negative effects.
 
LOL point taken, but do you trust drug companies to give us their REAL data and findings from human subjects? I don't and can only imagine if a product or pill can be sold as a "cure all" they aren't going to give us the real scientific data if it has negative effects.

And you do know that a large number of studies on depression are not pharma generated, right? Nope, easier to blame the evil pharmas then doing some research.
 
Haven't some tin foil nutters been pointing at links to SSRIs and mass murderers? I wonder if those tin foilers will be proven right at some point...

The issue with that, is you are looking at a person that is being prescribed SSRI's for a certain reason. That's an inherently biased sample as it is. I mean, isn't it likely they the individual already had "mass murderer" potential in their psyche?

Nutters point to these things because nutters are terrible with data.

Same issue with linking SSRI's to suicide (I think it was SSRIs). Someone is suicidal, therapist prescribes SSRI, patient kills herself. Obviously, it was the SSRI...
 
LOL point taken, but do you trust drug companies to give us their REAL data and findings from human subjects? I don't and can only imagine if a product or pill can be sold as a "cure all" they aren't going to give us the real scientific data if it has negative effects.

You can't do this experiment in humans.

What I question... ah, hell, I'll read the paper before I comment.
 
It's not surprising that people want an easy way out of their depression. What easier way than to gobble a little pill?

But the easy way isn't usually the best or most effective way.

Most depression is caused by someone's expectations of their life exceeding the reality they find themselves in.

There are 2 ways to solve this. Change the reality or change your expectations. Maybe a little of both.

Take a little pill? If only it were that easy.

Not really. There was a study done a while back where a psychologist gave 6 months of pro-bono treatment to a bunch of poor ghetto people, and many of them turned their lives around as a result. They never knew they had been depressed because their lives had sucked so hard up until that point, they had no baseline to compare to. Their expectations were quite realistic, and they were still depressed.

Depression is a physiological condition. It can be caused by and in many cases entirely cured by pure psychology, but it's nothing so simple as a flaw in expectations.
 
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