School suspends kid for voicing opinion in opposition to homosexuality

[zsdersw]

The problem is that I don't get to choose on acting on my attraction for women. They make that choice for me. They choose no. D:

Well, if you're attractive, I can be of service.

 

[zsdersw]

Agreed. Making acting on that desire punishable by horrible death or trendy and popular greatly decreases and increases respectively the number of people who will act on that desire, but for most people those who have it will probably have it even in the most repressive regime and those who do not will not. My main point is that government should not be in the business of deciding which choices one may make if those choices are not materially and directly affecting other people, so the argument of whether homosexuality is or is not a choice should not be an issue.

Agreed.

 

[xBiffx]

Well, if you're attractive, I can be of service.

I'd do me in a heartbeat. :biggrin:

 

[sm625]

$5 million lawsuit. There is surely no law or policy of any kind prohibiting the voicing of opinion.

 

[shadow9d9]

$5 million lawsuit. There is surely no law or policy of any kind prohibiting the voicing of opinion.

Dude, there are no tolerance policies at schools if you do drugs...

 

[Moonbeam]

I'd do me in a heartbeat. :biggrin:

Or how long it would take you to do anybody else. It's called premature ejaculation.

 

[Moonbeam]

You are a bigot, Atreus and you will always be so long as you want to. And you are a bigot because, while you think homosexual acts are immoral, you can't supply logical reasons that pass muster for believing that. You can't prove something is moral or not or that there is good and evil. All you do is access what you feel, your own irrational opinion and the fact it feels right to you. You are a true believer and it makes you dangerous. You have no real humility, no contempt for irrational opinion. You have connected your ego to morality. To let go would be to die. That is only for very strong people or those who suffer deeply.

 

[werepossum]

You are a bigot, Atreus and you will always be so long as you want to. And you are a bigot because, while you think homosexual acts are immoral, you can't supply logical reasons that pass muster for believing that. You can't prove something is moral or not or that there is good and evil. All you do is access what you feel, your own irrational opinion and the fact it feels right to you. You are a true believer and it makes you dangerous. You have no real humility, no contempt for irrational opinion. You have connected your ego to morality. To let go would be to die. That is only for very strong people or those who suffer deeply.

One's ego SHOULD be connected to one's morality, and if a true believer (in G-d) is dangerous, so too is a true believer in anything else, including government. ESPECIALLY government. And those who believe in nothing are most dangerous of all.

I personally am agnostic on homosexuality and G-d. Jesus never spoke on it (as far as we know) so I'm assuming that it isn't one of the major things. Personally I put it in the realm of things that were once dangerous to the Jewish people but not so much now, like mixing two crops in one field or eating fish without fins and scales. Because let's be honest - we aren't hurting for more people anymore. If I was attracted to men and had to make a judgement on whether G-d made me that way to test me or just because, I'd assume the latter, because the idea of a loving G-d who would make someone only attracted to the same sex and then proscribe that behavior seems illogical, like making a toy just to break it. But in any case, we believe a wide variety of things, and it makes no sense for government to try to pick and choose among those things where it doesn't absolutely have to do so. The whole point of America is to provide more freedom, not less, to pursue happiness and enjoy our G-d given rights.

 

[xBiffx]

The whole point of America is to provide more freedom, not less, to pursue happiness and enjoy our G-d given rights.

Amen!

 

[HAL9000]

If it comes to the question of why, I'd ask why do we make any moral pronouncements about any sexual activity? Why shouldn't we endorse sex between family members on the basis that they were born with that lifestyle?

Why indeed, everything is moral until people deem it immoral, there is no active reason to deem it immoral therefore it is moral.

I can give you the reason why

Please do.

 

[Moonbeam]

werepossum: One's ego SHOULD be connected to one's morality,

M: So morality, then, is anything the ego wishes to believe is true and thus purely relative. Interesting point of view.

w: and if a true believer (in G-d) is dangerous, so too is a true believer in anything else, including government.

M: Of course if the belief is irrational and second hand and unsupported by logical reason.

w: ESPECIALLY government.

M: Don't forget that Christian dominion religion seeks to rule.

w: And those who believe in nothing are most dangerous of all.

M: No. Those who believe in nothing are without motivation, empty like the Buddha, at one with the Tao because nature abhors a vacuum. He who is without ego is filled with love. When one is empty of all that can be taken one is left only with what really is.

w: I personally am agnostic on homosexuality and G-d. Jesus never spoke on it (as far as we know) so I'm assuming that it isn't one of the major things. Personally I put it in the realm of things that were once dangerous to the Jewish people but not so much now, like mixing two crops in one field or eating fish without fins and scales. Because let's be honest - we aren't hurting for more people anymore. If I was attracted to men and had to make a judgment on whether G-d made me that way to test me or just because, I'd assume the latter, because the idea of a loving G-d who would make someone only attracted to the same sex and then proscribe that behavior seems illogical, like making a toy just to break it.

M: Ah nice, you're not a true believer, at least about this. Unfortunately Atreus is.

w: But in any case, we believe a wide variety of things, and it makes no sense for government to try to pick and choose among those things where it doesn't absolutely have to do so.

M: The government doesn't do this. The government says you can believe anything you want as far as your religion goes, you just can't bring that into secular matters that are decided in the light of science and reason. They have to be separated.

w: The whole point of America is to provide more freedom, not less, to pursue happiness and enjoy our G-d given rights.

M: The whole point of America is to defend all inalienable rights, those enumerated and those not and to prevent the true believers from imposing their true beliefs on others because, as it happens, there are millions on one and only true beliefs and they are all different. The job of America is to prevent one psychopath from imposing his will on some other psychopath so that wise men can live in piece.

 

[bfdd]

Hehe, does it matter. Only the issues he raises are important, how you react and feel about them. We see 50 million dead as a result of Nazism. In the US you can be a Nazi but any association with Nazism in Germany is against the law. No free speech there. 50 million people dead teach different folk different lessons. Truth and what it looks like depend on personal experience. Black folk are wound a lot tighter about racism than they are about homophobia. Grow up gay among straight bigots before you judge Nebor. Fucking over people can make them violently angry.

Comparing the USA to Germany is lols. Americans raised with a concept of liberty have nothing in common with Germans who have never been a "freedom" loving people.

 

[Moonbeam]

Comparing the USA to Germany is lols. Americans raised with a concept of liberty have nothing in common with Germans who have never been a "freedom" loving people.

Oh, OK. I see now. No wait, hold on, this looks for all the world just to be your opinion expressed as fact. That doesn't make it true. Why there is another thread about an immigrant that can't be repatriated because he would be killed that American freedom lovers what sent back anyway because their notion of freedom flows right out of their ass and the German government has decided, via popular voice, to end nuclear power. So I guess what you meant to say is that in Germany folk are a lot freer than here, no? And your silly argument that you can't compare Germans and Americans was based on nothing but comparison, albeit one of your invention.

 

[zsdersw]

That is where you and I differ, it's also where your country and my country differ (assuming you're from the US of A) hate speech and the spread of hate results in serious problems.

What's right isn't always popular, and what's popular isn't always right.

Freedom of speech is essential to ensuring we can tell which is which.

 

[HomerJS]

News flash. There is no absolute right to free speech in public school. Kids have been suspended for wearing anti-(fill in the President) t-shirts.

Schools districts are just trying to keep the peace.

 

[bfdd]

Oh, OK. I see now. No wait, hold on, this looks for all the world just to be your opinion expressed as fact. That doesn't make it true. Why there is another thread about an immigrant that can't be repatriated because he would be killed that American freedom lovers what sent back anyway because their notion of freedom flows right out of their ass and the German government has decided, via popular voice, to end nuclear power. So I guess what you meant to say is that in Germany folk are a lot freer than here, no? And your silly argument that you can't compare Germans and Americans was based on nothing but comparison, albeit one of your invention.

yes "popular voice" because swaying the German people into any movement is oh so hard. remember how hard it was for hitler to convince the German people that Jews were responsible for all their problems? god it took him forever!

 

[zsdersw]

Kids have been suspended for wearing anti-(fill in the President) t-shirts.

Yes they have, but that doesn't make it right.

 

[rchiu]

You are a bigot, Atreus and you will always be so long as you want to. And you are a bigot because, while you think homosexual acts are immoral, you can't supply logical reasons that pass muster for believing that. You can't prove something is moral or not or that there is good and evil. All you do is access what you feel, your own irrational opinion and the fact it feels right to you. You are a true believer and it makes you dangerous. You have no real humility, no contempt for irrational opinion. You have connected your ego to morality. To let go would be to die. That is only for very strong people or those who suffer deeply.

You are a bigot, and you will always be so long as you want to. And you are a bigot because, while you think people who don't agree with homosexual acts are immoral, you can't supply logical reasons that pass muster for believing that. You can't prove something is moral or not or that there is good and evil. All you do is access what you feel, your own irrational opinion and the fact it feels right to you. You are a true believer and it makes you dangerous. You have no real humility, no contempt for irrational opinion. You have connected your ego to morality. To let go would be to die. That is only for very strong people or those who suffer deeply

 

[HAL9000]

What's right isn't always popular, and what's popular isn't always right.

Freedom of speech is essential to ensuring we can tell which is which.

If the majority want something to change it will happen.

American's constitutions and such mean shit, if all of America want them to change, they will just amend them....

 

[alkemyst]

For one, schools prior to college are not a place for 'free speech'...that's been established for a long time. Colleges still reserve the right to sanction some movements.

The biggest problem (and I don't know if you guys were asleep your first 12 years of school) is parents send Little John/Jill in with their own agendas. Tell them things to say, wear and the child has no fucking clue what it really means.

But then again now we have these 9 and 10 year old hoochie mamma reality shows to see what parents can create the next Junior in high school with a baby.

 

[zsdersw]

If the majority want something to change it will happen.

No, "majority rules" is not an adequate description. The majority's "rights" are not without any limitations.

American's constitutions and such mean shit, if all of America want them to change, they will just amend them....

Such changes, particularly at the federal level, are exceedingly difficult to make. Broad and lasting consensus is required.

 

[zsdersw]

For one, schools prior to college are not a place for 'free speech'...that's been established for a long time.

The length of time something's been established has no relevance to whether or not it is ultimately right.

 

[Atreus21]

You are a bigot, Atreus and you will always be so long as you want to. And you are a bigot because, while you think homosexual acts are immoral, you can't supply logical reasons that pass muster for believing that. You can't prove something is moral or not or that there is good and evil. All you do is access what you feel, your own irrational opinion and the fact it feels right to you. You are a true believer and it makes you dangerous. You have no real humility, no contempt for irrational opinion. You have connected your ego to morality. To let go would be to die. That is only for very strong people or those who suffer deeply.

Moonbeam, you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. Don't pretend to have any insight into my character.

 

[shadow9d9]

yes "popular voice" because swaying the German people into any movement is oh so hard. remember how hard it was for hitler to convince the German people that Jews were responsible for all their problems? god it took him forever!

About as long as it took christians in this country to blame muslims and immigrants for all their problems.

 

[shadow9d9]

Moonbeam, you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. Don't pretend to have any insight into my character.

Is it immoral for hetero anal sex?

Is lesbian sex immoral?

For someone that is ok at declaring part of the population immoral for the way they are born... you sure have problems clarifying your convictions with reasoning.