School principal bans Santa,Thanksgiving and Pledge of Allegiance

[PokerGuy]

I'm surprised the ACLU is not getting involved as the 1st amendment of these students/parents are being violated by this principal.

Yes, but she's doing it in the name of anti-American PC. That makes it a very tough call for the ACLU on which side to take

 

[Moonbeam]

Can't say I'm a big fan of multiculturalism.
I strongly favor assimilation in the so called melting pot.

Is that too old fashioned?

Your biggest problem is that you don't think. You imagine that when you throw something into a melting pot, what melts turns into what was already melted, but what actually happens is that both the already melted and them newly melting both change as a result. Culture evolves not only by addition, but by abandonment of past attachments. In short, while the culture evolves, you don't want to keep up.

 

[fskimospy]

Insufficient fealty to Christmas? Really? Sheesh. There's a vast difference between the school not endorsing a religion and trying to ban any reference to it from the school. Further, Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday, it was banned too in favor of some PC drivel. Any idiot who goes to those lengths to implement PC is not fit to lead a school. Nothing to do with "fealty to Christmas".

Nothing to do with Christmas "spirit", nor did I ever say that.

Completely irrelevant. I don't care if it was 100%. It's still wrong and she should be canned.

You're assuming she'd be replaced with a less capable individual, which is highly unlikely considering she's a complete idiot. I notice you seem to focus on Christmas sweaters while completely ignoring her equal zeal for removing other cultural references to Thanksgiving which is not at all religious.

Yep, she should be immediately canned if what is being said is true.

Glad you clarified that school performance is secondary to the culture war to you.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Sorry, I only speak english, and some french.

Ask yourself this,

What is a pledge?
Can children even fully comprehend the meaning of a pledge, and be expected to honor it?
Why would children need to take a pledge every day?

The only 'argument' you can make for this obvious brainwashing is tradition for the sake of tradition.

You don't get it, do ya? Set aside all the wrongs, the short comings, the in-fighting, and ask yourself, why does nearly half the worlds population want to come here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HGHdFmu5GU

 

[dainthomas]

What's the problem here ? If people want their children to be exposed to religious fairy tales and related holidays, they should pay for them to go to a private school that weaves that doctrine into the curriculum. The government should not have to endorse the teaching of nonsense to children. Why not have a batman or superman day at school ? It's just as ridiculous.

There will be a day where this nonsense is dropped almost universally, steps like these are a good start.

Exactly which religious fairy tale is Thanksgiving based on again?

So the difference between a good citizen and one that should leave the country entirely is said person reciting a few dozen words? We should take all the Syrian refugees we can so long as they recite the pledge of allegiance?

I'd rather have them than mysticjbyrd.

 

[Hugo Drax]

What do you expect when you get someone from Communist china as principal.

In Communist china all those things are banned in schools.

Trump will fix this.

 

[Exterous]

What's the problem here ? If people want their children to be exposed to religious fairy tales and related holidays,

Thanksgiving is a religious holiday? I also don't think Santa falls in line with any religion (other than capitalism :sneaky

Yes, started in the 2013-14 school year.

Barely. I think we can all agree that starting at the very end of the 2013-14 school year means that she had little to no impact on scores. If we compare 203-14 with 2014-15 we see very little difference. Between Math, English and Passing rates you see a whole 1% increase in English between the two years as the only change despite spending $21,000 on TVs and throwing out brand new textbooks

Soon after joining PS 169 in May 2014,

With the current data it seems more like the principle has been a complete non factor in how well this school does so it would appear to be more appropriate to say:
"the school has outperformed schools with similar levels of need in recent years."
than
"the school under this principal has outperformed schools with similar levels of need in recent years."

 

[buckshot24]

The pledge of allegiance is an utter load of bullshit, and absolutely should go.

I find it North Koreaish myself and it should go.

 

[Atreus21]

I wonder if this person would ban any mention of Ramadan.

 

[fskimospy]

Barely. I think we can all agree that starting at the very end of the 2013-14 school year means that she had little to no impact on scores. If we compare 203-14 with 2014-15 we see very little difference. Between Math, English and Passing rates you see a whole 1% increase in English between the two years as the only change despite spending $21,000 on TVs and throwing out brand new textbooks

Are we really going to go through the school's budget by line item now? We have no way of knowing what the needs of that school are unless we are staffed there, which I assume neither of us is. I imagine the internet would be equally poor at determining the needs of wherever most of us work.

With the current data it seems more like the principle has been a complete non factor in how well this school does so it would appear to be more appropriate to say:
"the school has outperformed schools with similar levels of need in recent years."
than
"the school under this principal has outperformed schools with similar levels of need in recent years."

It definitely wouldn't be possible to say that the principal has been a non-factor as sustaining superior performance (and actually slightly increasing it) is a positive thing and indicative of effective leadership. I would agree that it's valuable to include that the school was doing better than average in years prior to her tenure as well though, so thanks for mentioning that.

I don't see how that changes the fundamental point though, which is that you don't throw out effective school leadership casually, which is exactly what people who are saying she should be fired over a lack of Christmas and Thanksgiving displays are advocating for. Research clearly shows that school leadership is one of the most important factors influencing student achievement so you should be thoughtful when changing it.

As I said before, if there is a schism between the principal and the staff/community it might very well warrant corrective action of some sort but you don't base that on some stupid Post article about a culture war topic.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Ninety-five percent of the 1,600 kids at PS 169 are Asian or Hispanic.

Seems better to have a Cinco De Mayo and Chinese New Year and Diwali.

Not all Hispanic people are Mexicans.

 

[rpanic]

I wonder how she feels about head scarves? What about pasta strainers?

She is trying to keep god out.

http://www.venganza.org/

 

[JEDIYoda]

That makes zero sense.

makes total sense!!

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Ninety-five percent of the 1,600 kids at PS 169 are Asian or Hispanic.

Seems better to have a Cinco De Mayo and Chinese New Year and Diwali.

It makes since that the parents are upset as a large percentage of Hispanics are Catholic and growing numbers of Asians are Christians.

 

[Exterous]

Are we really going to go through the school's budget by line item now?

Are we really going to criticize someone for reading additional articles about a topic to be more informed on a subject? I certainly am not going to apologize for getting more details on a topic before forming my opinions

We have no way of knowing what the needs of that school are unless we are staffed there, which I assume neither of us is. I imagine the internet would be equally poor at determining the needs of wherever most of us work.

We can certainly recognize the large body of work criticizing the US over spending on technological solutions in an attempt to find the 'silver bullet' and we can certainly pay attention to those saying that the TVs are barely used and use those to strongly question the need to spend $21,000 on TVs when no gain in metrics has been garnered from the presence of the TVs. We can also question why TVs were bought instead of paying for a part time aide. Even part time aides have proven educational benefits far in excess of what seven TVs can accomplish esp given their higher than recommended average class size

It definitely wouldn't be possible to say that the principal has been a non-factor as sustaining superior performance (and actually slightly increasing it) is a positive thing and indicative of effective leadership. I would agree that it's valuable to include that the school was doing better than average in years prior to her tenure as well though, so thanks for mentioning that.

I never said she was a non-factor just that it was more likely she was a non-factor in the schools 'superior performance' (aka: below district average) given the lack of appreciable change during her tenure

I don't see how that changes the fundamental point though, which is that you don't throw out effective school leadership casually

Er...no. That could only be true if there is any substantial proof that the leadership is effective. How you could even think to make an argument for effective leadership is beyond me when you look at the survey results among teachers and parents. She falls below the average district metrics for ALL leadership results. Effective leaders don't get a 27% approval rating from their employees. Effective leaders don't get a 'Poor' rating in the Effective School Leadership metric reported by the NY dept of education

No one said you throw out effective leadership. There are a lot of people questioning if her leadership is effective.

As I said before, if there is a schism between the principal and the staff/community it might very well warrant corrective action of some sort but you don't base that on some stupid Post article about a culture war topic.

Wait - so you don't want me to base it on the Post article but you started your post by criticizing me for getting more information on the topic?

 

[bshole]

Christmas is as much a secular holiday as it is not. Many atheists celebrate it. It is a time to decorate trees, give/get presents, eat good food and gather with the family.

Given how much love Christmas, I am not sure I am down with kicking Santa Claus or Christmas trees from schools.

When people find out I’m an atheist, the question often comes up about what I do during the Christmas holidays. There is an assumption that atheists don’t ‘do Christmas,’ so they are surprised when I say how much I love it.

Most atheists grew up in religious households, and most of us grew up with celebrating religious holidays. We have childhood memories of Christmas or Hanukkah, family meals, holiday cheer and the quirkiness of our relatives. While we might make noise when religion attempts to break through the wall of the separation of church and state, we are not in the habit of kicking Santa in the shins, tearing down creches, or, like the Grinch, stealing the Christmas stockings from the mantle. I admit I have known atheists who grow quite surly and Scrooge-like at any suggestion of Christmas merriment. But historically most of that sort of opposition to Christmas and its symbols has come not from atheists at all, but from rival religions. Most of the the atheists I know revel in the season as a way of celebrating family and friends, which really is the modern meaning of Christmas.

Some Christians have accused me of being hypocritical for celebrating a Christian holiday. However – and perhaps this is from my background in anthropology – celebrations are a natural part of human culture, and Christians simply appropriated local celebrations to suit their own peculiar beliefs. Christmas is only ‘Christian’ because ancient winter pagan celebrations were incorporated by the Church.

The Christmas tree, which became a part of English and American tradition through German influence is a recent tradition. The English took on the German tradition of the Christmas Tree during the Victorian era under the influence of Prince Albert. Americans, on the other hand, were likely influenced by the Prussians during the American Revolution as well as the many German immigrants who came to the fledgling nation. But evergreens have been part of human celebrations at least as far back as the Egyptians as a symbol of the triumph of life over death. In pre-Christian Britain, the druids placed evergreens outside their door to symbolize the coming of spring. Christians adopted the symbolism so readily that they use palm leaves to celebrate the ‘triumph’ of Christ’s rise from the tomb at Easter, and then use those same palms as ashes to mark the cross on the forehead of Catholics throughout the world to signify the beginning of Lent the following year.

 

[nakedfrog]

A bit too much!!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/13/school-principal-bans-santa-thanksgiving-and-pledge-allegiance

How much worse are things going to get??


THIS IS TOTALLY INSANE!!!!!!!! -- THIS PC CRAP IS OUTTA CONTROL AND DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY!!

Would you be so kind as to explain to me how this is destroying the country?

 

[Cozarkian]

Thanksgiving was a harvest festival, but calling it a harvest festival doesn't make sense any more, as it is celebrated too late in the year. As the harvest for AFAIK all crops is long over by the end of November, this change relies on a false definition, undermining education.

Winter break is acceptable, but I'd like to see it actually start at the start of Winter or thereafter.

A school doesn't need to promote Santa, but I don't see a need to ban it.
,
The pledge should be optional, and its history should be taught.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Would you be so kind as to explain to me how this is destroying the country?

well it's the end of the white mans' rule and that's making for some very angry, pasty (or orange) faced bipeds.

 

[fskimospy]

Are we really going to criticize someone for reading additional articles about a topic to be more informed on a subject? I certainly am not going to apologize for getting more details on a topic before forming my opinions

We can certainly recognize the large body of work criticizing the US over spending on technological solutions in an attempt to find the 'silver bullet' and we can certainly pay attention to those saying that the TVs are barely used and use those to strongly question the need to spend $21,000 on TVs when no gain in metrics has been garnered from the presence of the TVs. We can also question why TVs were bought instead of paying for a part time aide. Even part time aides have proven educational benefits far in excess of what seven TVs can accomplish esp given their higher than recommended average class size

You can question that, sure, but without understanding how the school is run your questions are functionally useless.

1. School budgets aren't just one big pot of money that you can use in whatever way you want. Can you specify the funding stream that the TV expenditures came out of and if that funding stream is also available for staffing expenditures? My guess... actually my near certainty is no.

2. That funding is entirely insufficient for even one full time paraprofessional, meaning you're talking about per diem rates, for which if I remember correctly the UFT contract has fairly stringent limits on how this can be used.

Without knowing how the school's funding streams were allocated and their staffing status it is 100% impossible to castigate them for spending that money on TVs instead of a part time paraprofessional. This is why I said it was dumb to try and critique the TV purchase. You simply lack sufficient information to do so with any confidence.

I never said she was a non-factor just that it was more likely she was a non-factor in the schools 'superior performance' (aka: below district average) given the lack of appreciable change during her tenure

What you should be looking at is their comparison group, not district average. A school in Park Slope can be in the same district as a vastly poorer and higher need school with a population not nearly as well supported or well integrated. Comparison groups compare schools where students come in with relatively similar academic, economic, and disability statistics, all of which are vital in assessing school performance. (it's the basis for the value added models used to evaluate teacher performance as well)

So yes, superior performance by the metric that is most accurate.

Er...no. That could only be true if there is any substantial proof that the leadership is effective. How you could even think to make an argument for effective leadership is beyond me when you look at the survey results among teachers and parents. She falls below the average district metrics for ALL leadership results. Effective leaders don't get a 27% approval rating from their employees. Effective leaders don't get a 'Poor' rating in the Effective School Leadership metric reported by the NY dept of education

No one said you throw out effective leadership. There are a lot of people questioning if her leadership is effective.

Leadership can be effective in many different ways, and not all effective leaders are popular. The school has performed at a substantially higher level than its comparison group is a symptom of effective leadership.

That being said, as I mentioned previously, if the parents and teachers have some sort of irreparable breach with the principal a change of leadership could be appropriate. That would have basically zero to do with Christmas decorations though.

Wait - so you don't want me to base it on the Post article but you started your post by criticizing me for getting more information on the topic?

No, I said your additional information was meaningless, not that you shouldn't get additional information.

 

[K7SN]

Probably would be more solace to go around if christians could stop taking themselves so seriously, or at the very least put the persecution complex on hold.

I agree.

Solstice?

I'll be more careful to add in parenthesis (solace not solstice intended).

Sorry, I made a typo and it auto -corrected to solace which I knew was wrong, I then thought if we can't have a star then we should be fair and not include the people who celebrated the solstice so I left 'solace'

This PC Nazi principal needs some excuse for closing school for a week or two around the solstice. The fact that some people start their year when stuff actually starts growing means Ms. PC Nazi can't celebrate New Years day less she offend the Chinese who celebrate another time as New Years Day is when our year starts (Also when you could determine the days were getting longer before accurate timekeeping).and also related to the Winter Solstice.

The druids had enough sway to get Jesus of Nazareth's birthday moved to a couple months to counter their day; http://www.druidry.org/druid-way/teaching-and-practice/druid-festivals/winter-solstice-alban-arthan so maybe we should just ban all religious holidays, how far from June 21, 1788.can we get nowadays.

The article cited by NAC4E also described how she dumped numerous boxes of brand-new books because she wanted to use a different books. Also the auditorium had multiple historic murals which she had painted over http://madworldnews.com/principal-hiding-christmas/

 

[Exterous]

You can question that, sure, but without understanding how the school is run your questions are functionally useless.

1. School budgets aren't just one big pot of money that you can use in whatever way you want. Can you specify the funding stream that the TV expenditures came out of and if that funding stream is also available for staffing expenditures? My guess... actually my near certainty is no.

No nor did I ever claim I could. Thats why I said it should be questioned.

2. That funding is entirely insufficient for even one full time paraprofessional, meaning you're talking about per diem rates, for which if I remember correctly the UFT contract has fairly stringent limits on how this can be used.

Citation needed as it is far more common to have a multitude of of options available for Part Time teachers among the major unions than not

This is why I said it was dumb to try and critique the TV purchase. You simply lack sufficient information to do so with any confidence.

Again I said question which is different then critique. If a lack of sufficient information was a reason to never question anything then we should just go ahead and trust everything the government tells us when the data is classified. Furthermore a lack of knowledge about funding source does not mean something can't be critiqued or questioned if its not being used. Ignorance of funding does not excuse wasteful spending

What you should be looking at is their comparison group, not district average.

Actually in education both are of importance. You don't get to choose one over the other just because it supports your case. If you knew much about how school metrics for under-performing schools work then you would know that the two must be compared together and that the most important metric for under-performing schools is the improvement metric in relation to the averages.

FWIW an improvement of 1% in a single category over a year for an under-performing school is not considered a success by any measure from any major educational agency regardless of comparison group. You can disagree but you would be disagreeing with the NEA, US Government, Georgetown University, the University of Michigan, Eastern Michigan University etc etc

Leadership can be effective in many different ways, and not all effective leaders are popular. The school has performed at a substantially higher level than its comparison group is a symptom of effective leadership.

This is just plain wrong. You seem stuck on this 'relative to peer group' model which does not hold weight for 'effective leadership'. Effective leadership does not maintain a failing status quo just because a few less people fall behind than the worst schools.

I suspect I have spent far more time in struggling schools than you have given my history and current job working with a variety of them. I have seen schools struggling and effective leadership is rising above and beyond (note the rising part. Not maintaining virtually identical scores) the comparison group without alienating the teachers or parents.

But hey - what does the NYC dept of Ed know. I mean they only chose to give it the actual label of 'Poor' when it comes to leadership. You know better amiright?

No, I said your additional information was meaningless, not that you shouldn't get additional information.

Come on - that is not what you said. No where does meaningless even appear in your post. That may have been your intention but the actual words you used in the structure you put them in does, in no way, convey that.

 

[Meghan54]

Can't say I'm a big fan of multiculturalism.
I strongly favor assimilation in the so called melting pot.

Is that too old fashioned?

So, you don't understand what a melting pot is, eh?

Not that I agree with banning everything, but if the school and board deem it so, so it shall be. Not going to override what a local govt. wants to do, are you?


BTW....are you also up in arms about all the obvious sections of the country where melting was resisted, at least initially, when a group migrated to the U.S.? You know, areas like Chinatown, Little Havana, Little Italy, etc. Because that's exactly what happens when a new group migrates to the U.S., the group tends to be insular, at least at first, which gives rise to things like Little Havana, Little Italy, etc. The migrating group tends to stick together, at least at first.

Then, as a generation or two pass, they begin increasingly melting into the U.S.'s fabric.....dependent upon the surrounding population accepting the new group. This has happened time and again to almost every group that's migrated to the U.S.---Italians, Cubans, Chinese, Japanese, etc. The only group not to really follow that pattern is the black population, but we in the U.S. did treat that group rather differently than any other group.

 

[TheGardener]

Santa's big mistake has been not giving gifts with a clock and wires exposed. If the principal then complained and banned Santa, Santa could then have flown his sleigh to Washington DC, where the prez would have embraced him for being marginalized and a victim.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

PC Principal is real.