School improvement plan 1, The Teacher's union in Rhode Island 0

[aka1nas]

I suppose you came from an entirely different environment than I did. Anyone that brushed off practice or screwed around in any sport would most likely be dismissed from the team. We had very competitive and successful sports programs, and that probably has a lot to do with leadership through coaching and the administrators that hired the coaches.

He was talking about general PE, not a sports program. PE is what the other 90% of the student body does in lieu of being on a sports team.

 

[StageLeft]

I don't know if they do or not, that's why I asked you because I figured you knew with such a strong opinion against them

Rule #1 about Skoorb: strong opinions do NOT have to be based on extensive knowledge or research. However, I do try to change my opinions when I ought, which is why I'm willing to embrace a sports program if they really have a net gain on income. I suspect they don't, though.

- Schools are there to prepare us with the skills to hold a job, and sports is a job

Wut. Flying radio control planes is a job for some people, too. In my entire life I have only met one person who's actually trying to make a money-generating career out of sports. OK, actually two (sailing and diving), neither of which are taught in school anyway

- For most schools, sports programs are a revenue source, not a money pit

Are you sure?

 

[Modelworks]

I think the schools need to change in a lot of ways but not sure this is the best way to go about it.
The teachers union is going to love this.





http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/23/national/main6235551.shtml

(CBS/ AP) Rhode Island Education Commissioner Deborah Gist has approved a school district's plan to fire all its teachers.

All 88 teachers at Central Falls High School are expected to receive their pink slips on Tuesday, reports CBS affiliate WPRI in Providence.

Central Falls, Rhode Island has long been among the state's most troubled school districts - 90 percent of the students live in poverty, reports CBS News correspondent Jim Axelrod. Many struggle with English in this immigrant community - and that's just for starters.

"We lose 52 percent of our students between 9th grade and the 12th grade," Gallo told Axelrod. "They don't graduate."

Central Falls Superintendent Fran Gallo has proposed laying off all teachers at the school as part of a "turnaround" model for the school. That high school and five other schools in Providence have been identified by the state as chronically low-performing and must make major changes to avoid being closed.

The turnaround model requires a new principal and governance structure and allows no more than half the teachers to be rehired.

Gist on Tuesday said she had accepted Gallo's proposal. The superintendent has 120 business days to submit to Gist her proposal for overhauling the school.

The teachers' union says it wants more pay for the additional work, WPRI reports. Teachers, along with their supporters, held a rally on Tuesday to protest the decision.

"I support doing whatever it takes to get the results we need and to do what’s best for the students in Central Falls High School," Commissioner Gist said. "I know that there are many great teachers in Central Falls High School. Our goal is to ensure that we have highly effective teachers in every classroom in the school."

 

[PrinceofWands]

Jesus H Christ people...the problems with students in America are cultural, social, administrative, and SES. Period. Ok, maybe 1% of the time the school is the issue.

Poor kids fail more often in school. That's known, and not in contention. The reasons are contended, but not the outcome. To think that the school is somehow capable of compensating for the entirety of social pressure, cultural dogma, administrative bureaucracy, and economic impoverishment is probably the best possible proof that our education system has sucked.

You want better students? Create a better home and community environment. Change the cultural messages. Improve living conditions for the poor, and give them upward class mobility. Overthrow the government and administrative stranglehold on educators (you know, the experts with multiple degrees who spend their lives learning how to educate).

 

[woolfe9999]

I think the schools need to change in a lot of ways but not sure this is the best way to go about it.
The teachers union is going to love this.





http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/23/national/main6235551.shtml

I like the tenor of this kind of news, though this case does seem rather extreme. It's hard to belief there aren't at least a few good teachers at this particular school who deserve to keep their jobs. Still, if we are going to reform education, we have to be able to fire bad teachers. Even doing something extreme like this is light years better than the status quo.

- wolf

 

[RedChief]

I like the tenor of this kind of news, though this case does seem rather extreme. It's hard to belief there aren't at least a few good teachers at this particular school who deserve to keep their jobs. Still, if we are going to reform education, we have to be able to fire bad teachers. Even doing something extreme like this is light years better than the status quo.

- wolf

There probably are a few good teachers and those are the ones that would be hired back. Fireing them all at once makes things much easier when it comes time to defend the firings. The just have to prove the entire school sucked and a cleanout was needed rather then building a case against individual teachers.

 

[DrPizza]

Research has already shown that when an overwhelming majority of students are in poverty, their average educational outcome, for lack of a better word, sucks. EVERY time. There are no exceptions. Zero, Nada. You cannot find one poverty school with a high rate of success; (at least, according to a paper I read in one of the educational journals a month or so ago.) If I can find it, I'll post a link.

 

[blackangst1]

Jesus H Christ people...the problems with students in America are cultural, social, administrative, and SES. Period. Ok, maybe 1% of the time the school is the issue.

Poor kids fail more often in school. That's known, and not in contention. The reasons are contended, but not the outcome. To think that the school is somehow capable of compensating for the entirety of social pressure, cultural dogma, administrative bureaucracy, and economic impoverishment is probably the best possible proof that our education system has sucked.

You want better students? Create a better home and community environment. Change the cultural messages. Improve living conditions for the poor, and give them upward class mobility. Overthrow the government and administrative stranglehold on educators (you know, the experts with multiple degrees who spend their lives learning how to educate).

I dont agree with you often, but I do on this post. Spot on!

 

[blackangst1]

Research has already shown that when an overwhelming majority of students are in poverty, their average educational outcome, for lack of a better word, sucks. EVERY time. There are no exceptions. Zero, Nada. You cannot find one poverty school with a high rate of success; (at least, according to a paper I read in one of the educational journals a month or so ago.) If I can find it, I'll post a link.

Really? No exceptions? Ever heard of Jaime Escalante (Garfield High)? Joe Clark (Eastside High)? Really?

I suggest Google

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Why are teachers' unions so powerful and so stupid?

And how is firing incompetent teachers and replacing them with more incompetent teachers going to help? And more importantly, what is that going to do to change the fact that they're poor, their parents don't speak English well, they have trouble integrating, and they don't really care about school anyway?

 

[MJinZ]

Jesus H Christ people...the problems with students in America are cultural, social, administrative, and SES. Period. Ok, maybe 1% of the time the school is the issue.

Poor kids fail more often in school. That's known, and not in contention. The reasons are contended, but not the outcome. To think that the school is somehow capable of compensating for the entirety of social pressure, cultural dogma, administrative bureaucracy, and economic impoverishment is probably the best possible proof that our education system has sucked.

You want better students? Create a better home and community environment. Change the cultural messages. Improve living conditions for the poor, and give them upward class mobility. Overthrow the government and administrative stranglehold on educators (you know, the experts with multiple degrees who spend their lives learning how to educate).

You should tell this to countries like China. You know, where it's shit for living conditions, they are super poor, the cultural message is be better or die, and even with little upper class mobility.

Yet, poor 3rd world countries like China does not have these problems.

Next theory please.

 

[blackangst1]

You should tell this to countries like China. You know, where it's shit for living conditions, they are super poor, the cultural message is be better or die, and even with little upper class mobility.

Yet, poor 3rd world countries like China does not have these problems.

Next theory please.

China has better home and community environments, like he suggests.

 

[Hacp]

China has better home and community environments, like he suggests.

It is not the government's job to create these environments. Its the community's job to make it themselves. In other countries, if your kid walks along the wrong path, the parents beat him till he straightens out. In the US, you can't or you'll end up in the slammer.

 

[DrPizza]

Really? No exceptions? Ever heard of Jaime Escalante (Garfield High)? Joe Clark (Eastside High)? Really?

I suggest Google

I suggest reading. I used google, went to the wikipedia page, and:

Academics

Overall, Garfield has a student population that places significantly below average in the California Standards Test.

Want to post a link of a successful school? Sure... you can point out that they're ranked really highly by Newsweek. Those rankings are regarded as meaningless these days, especially as it's leaked to outside the school the types of games many schools are playing with their numbers to achieve high rankings.

In 1990, there were over 400 students in Escalante's math program from algebra to calculus. In 1991, he had a falling out with the school administration and as a result left the Garfield school system. By 1996, only seven passed the basic calculus exam, with four passing the advanced exam.

 

[DrPizza]

Really? No exceptions? Ever heard of Jaime Escalante (Garfield High)? Joe Clark (Eastside High)? Really?

I suggest Google

Jesus Christ. Look, post a link. I'm not going to chase down your exceptions to the rule all night long.
re: Joe Clark (Eastside High)

[q]The school was the 311th-ranked public high school in New Jersey out of 316 schools statewide, in New Jersey Monthly magazine's September 2008 cover story on the state's Top Public High Schools. The school was ranked 309th in the magazine's September 2006 issue, which surveyed 316 schools across the state. [/quote]

311th out of 316??! I said "GOOD", not "BAD"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastside_High_School_(Paterson,_New_Jersey)

Or, are you referring to the movie that was loosely based on that school?

 

[Double Trouble]

The fact that poor students don't do well in school is easy to understand, for many reasons. What ticked me off is that the teachers who make 3 times more than the median income in the community for working only part of the year were simply not willing to work an extra 25 minutes with their students. Obviously, they are not committed to the success of the students and should be fired. Bravo.

 

[Patranus]

If there are less students there should be fewer teachers.
Not really sure what the problem is here.

 

[charrison]

Really? No exceptions? Ever heard of Jaime Escalante (Garfield High)? Joe Clark (Eastside High)? Really?

I suggest Google

Yes there are lots of good examples of that. John Stossle recently profiled the success academy in harlem. 1000s of poor parents line up for a lottery to get into this school every year.

 

[Patranus]

Yes there are lots of good examples of that. John Stossle recently profiled the success academy in harlem. 1000s of poor parents line up for a lottery to get into this school every year.

But then we would have competition in the school system and we all know how much "progressives" like competition.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

It is not the government's job to create these environments. Its the community's job to make it themselves. In other countries, if your kid walks along the wrong path, the parents beat him till he straightens out. In the US, you can't or you'll end up in the slammer.

Proof? I'm Chinese, nobody beat me because I didn't perform very well in school. Nobody forced me to study. Nobody made me do homework till midnight every day. And a large number of parents don't despite the stereotype. It's much easier to make the child realize that the education is for their benefit and they won't get anywhere without a good education (this is much more true in China than it is in the States).

 

[werepossum]

Proof? I'm Chinese, nobody beat me because I didn't perform very well in school. Nobody forced me to study. Nobody made me do homework till midnight every day. And a large number of parents don't despite the stereotype. It's much easier to make the child realize that the education is for their benefit and they won't get anywhere without a good education (this is much more true in China than it is in the States).

Unfortunately there are far too many parents telling their children that they are stupid or that it doesn't matter if they work hard because the man's gonna hold them down or that they shouldn't be "acting white". (Although, granted that last one should properly be "acting Asian.") You can't give someone upward mobility; that's something that has to be seized, something that must come from one's own hard work. And I know several otherwise good, successful white middle class people who refuse to work with their children at all - that's the school's (read: government's) job. (Not coincidentally, all but one are very progressive, and all their children have or had lots of trouble in school and did not go on past high school.)

I think the Section 8 housing program helps a bit, as students actually see people going to work and hopefully hear about people getting promotions and raises and better jobs instead of living in the projects where nobody has a job and the only raises come from having another baby or dealing drugs. Giving vouchers so that the money follows the student would help immensely, but progressives knock that one down every time. (Obama ended the DC voucher program, then caved - but he allows no new students to enroll.) We can't save every kid, but we can save those whose parents are willing to put in some effort if we only make it economically feasible.

It's been proven many times that poverty can be overcome, but each time it's been one or a few dynamic individuals. Seems like the system just steadily beats them down until, when they leave, the system defaults back to crap.

I should add in fairness that at least in Tennessee, football is the only sport that actually pays for itself, with a bit left over for other sports too.

 

[her209]

But then we would have competition in the school system and we all know how much "progressives" like competition.

Yeah, that's why "liberal elitists" attend Ivy League schools.

 

[StageLeft]

This is not china; poverty here is not the same as poverty there. Above is right, home life and poverty are tremendous influences on educational outcome in the US.

 

[Modelworks]

Being poor isn't the problem, the parents are. When I was 5 I lived in a one bedroom mobile home in a very rural area with my two brothers and sister. We all lived in that tiny trailer . We were one of those families that nobody got new clothes. I wore what my brothers had outgrown. If I got new shoes they were from the family dollar store. I lived that way for a long time and yet I still did good in school because my mom and dad spent time with me teaching me things. They were there for me when I came home and they kept me on the right track.

Parents now have the attitude that the schools will raise their kids . Many treat kids like a pet. They give them a place to sleep, feed them and say hi to them during the day and they think that is being a parent. Then when the kids fail the parents scream at the school.

 

[Hacp]

Being poor isn't the problem, the parents are. When I was 5 I lived in a one bedroom mobile home in a very rural area with my two brothers and sister. We all lived in that tiny trailer . We were one of those families that nobody got new clothes. I wore what my brothers had outgrown. If I got new shoes they were from the family dollar store. I lived that way for a long time and yet I still did good in school because my mom and dad spent time with me teaching me things. They were there for me when I came home and they kept me on the right track.

Parents now have the attitude that the schools will raise their kids . Many treat kids like a pet. They give them a place to sleep, feed them and say hi to them during the day and they think that is being a parent. Then when the kids fail the parents scream at the school.

Exactly. When you have people on welfare collecting food stamps rocking cell phones, using the laundromat instead of hand washing/drying, and giving their kids money to keep up with the latest styles, you have a problem no amount of government money can fix.

If you're on welfare, you should get exactly half the amount to rent a studio. Share the apartment with someone else. Food should be basics; rice and beans. If your kids aren't in hand me downs donated by the salvation army, your welfare should be rescinded.