School improvement plan 1, The Teacher's union in Rhode Island 0

[Blackjack200]

see its things like this that cement my hatred of unions. let them try that shit in corporate world and see how fast they keep their job.

lol, that shit happens in the corporate world all the time. Go ahead and start fucking around with your machine at work and see what happens. The difference is that the service people here are a lot more responsive... but that's because they're also sufficiently staffed.

 

[piasabird]

There are tons of old computers sitting around collecting dust that people would be willing to donate if you just ask the community. I build computers for myself simply because I can. I have often helped people to fix computers. Many people could even donate new computers as a tax write-off if you would just ask.

You would be surprised how much money the government gives away every year as part of technology grants. You just have to know how to write your requests so they will get approved. There are professional grant writing people who could be employed for such a thing. Grants and Gifts of Alumni is often how community colleges raise funds. Get a clue and learn how the system works!

If a teacher makes $70,000 annually, then a $500.00 Dell computer is not much of an obstacle.

 

[StageLeft]

Unions are fine in the private sector as long as they are not able to shut down entire sectors of the economy (re: dockworkers strike on the west coast shutting down all the ports between Seattle and San Diego).

Exactly why i think they should be illegal for necessary services such as teaching, fire, police, etc.

If rudder's numbers above are accurate it's really disgusting, but teaching is like any other entity: it wants to grow. It's clearly become big business. My kid go to a school that truly seems to care about the students and the teachers do put in unpaid additional time. But not all schools are like that.

I know a local computer store that had offered to service and maintain the school's computer at a very reasonable cost, but the school could not accept it because the store's employees were non union.

And thus a disservice done to tax payers for whom the union technically works for.

It's no secret that private schools offer typically superior educations for far less money and that's because they don't have the luxury of bending over the tax payer when they need more of it.

Schools clearly waste money. I think all of them should shut down their sports programs, those are a fvcking joke. You should be learning algebra not how to kick a ball. Start each Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday with 30 minutes of physical activity. No damned badminton or dodge ball or any other crap, have them run around the cafeteria and then on to classes to get a real education. I swear to F every single school budget in this area has money for putting in artificial turf. Actually, finish the day that way, don't need that stink there for the next several hours

 

[Blackjack200]

Schools clearly waste money. I think all of them should shut down their sports programs, those are a fvcking joke. You should be learning algebra not how to kick a ball. Start each Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday with 30 minutes of physical activity. No damned badminton or dodge ball or any other crap, have them run around the cafeteria and then on to classes to get a real education. I swear to F every single school budget in this area has money for putting in artificial turf. Actually, finish the day that way, don't need that stink there for the next several hours

Not sure how serious this is, but I would consider an effective PE program to be nearly as important as math and science (and I'm a big believer in math and science).

I have no patience for badmiton or dodgeball, but sports like soccer, lacrosse, ultimate frisbee etc. are excellent for cardiovascular health, strength, coordination, teamwork, creativity, etc. And you need the artificial turf because of the number of kids using them.

 

[ElFenix]

Not sure how serious this is, but I would consider an effective PE program to be nearly as important as math and science (and I'm a big believer in math and science).

I have no patience for badmiton or dodgeball, but sports like soccer, lacrosse, ultimate frisbee etc. are excellent for cardiovascular health, strength, coordination, teamwork, creativity, etc. And you need the artificial turf because of the number of kids using them.

the PE program isn't sucking down the money like the football program is.

i wonder how much of the growth in per student spending is in the classroom?

 

[Blackjack200]

the PE program isn't sucking down the money like the football program is.

i wonder how much of the growth in per student spending is in the classroom?

I think it makes sense for schools to support extra curricular activities within reason, including sports teams.

That said, I can remember the non-football players being kind of resentful of the money that was spent on the football program when I was in HS.

As long as the football program is supported mainly by the players, ticket sales, and fund raisers, and only a small part by the school I'd be comfortable with that. Although I know that that's not usually the case.

 

[StageLeft]

Not sure how serious this is, but I would consider an effective PE program to be nearly as important as math and science (and I'm a big believer in math and science).

I have no patience for badmiton or dodgeball, but sports like soccer, lacrosse, ultimate frisbee etc. are excellent for cardiovascular health, strength, coordination, teamwork, creativity, etc. And you need the artificial turf because of the number of kids using them.

I was serious; I think they are a waste of time for the most part. Almost all the girls brush it off as a joke and many/most of the guys do, too. Gym class is basically play time. Kids who are serious about sports can do it outside of the school's time and dime. I think it's an unfortunately perpetuated myth that team sports in school are some fantastic addition to a kid's day.

 

[Slick5150]

Runaway costs: education v. health care
Ralph Bristol
February 11, 2010

...

Americans are rightly concerned about the cost of health care, which has risen even faster than education. In 1970, Americans spent $299 a year for health care. In 2008, the cost was $6,411 per person, a 21-fold increase, compared to the 15-fold increase in the cost of education per student.

...

Doesn't that directly refute what you stated? Your statement was that education costs have gone up more than health care, but your source says the opposite (21x 1970 costs vs. 15x for education)

 

[Red Dawn]

Exactly why i think they should be illegal for necessary services such as teaching, fire, police, etc.

SO you believe that it should be illegal for people to organize? Idiot, how about they just not hire Union members.

 

[Slew Foot]

Labor Unions, screwing over America since 1995.

 

[Hacp]

Not sure how serious this is, but I would consider an effective PE program to be nearly as important as math and science (and I'm a big believer in math and science).

I have no patience for badmiton or dodgeball, but sports like soccer, lacrosse, ultimate frisbee etc. are excellent for cardiovascular health, strength, coordination, teamwork, creativity, etc. And you need the artificial turf because of the number of kids using them.

Thats just fine but they should pay for it themselves, not use government funds.

 

[StageLeft]

SO you believe that it should be illegal for people to organize? Idiot, how about they just not hire Union members.

Only a fool would ask an idiot a question and care about the answer, so if I gave you one it would be an insult.

 

[Red Dawn]

Only a fool would ask an idiot a question and care about the answer, so if I gave you one it would be an insult.

Lol, true

There's a solution to Unions, just don't hire their employees or sign agreements with them. That said outlawing them is unconstitutional.

 

[MrEgo]

Schools clearly waste money. I think all of them should shut down their sports programs, those are a fvcking joke. You should be learning algebra not how to kick a ball. Start each Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday with 30 minutes of physical activity. No damned badminton or dodge ball or any other crap, have them run around the cafeteria and then on to classes to get a real education. I swear to F every single school budget in this area has money for putting in artificial turf. Actually, finish the day that way, don't need that stink there for the next several hours

Did you play sports in high school?

Do you know how much schools make on certain sports programs, and the expenses that go with them? Just off the top of my head, my local school will pack at least 15,000 people in the stands for each football home game.. so that's at least $75,000 in ticket sales alone.

I ran cross country and track, and I can say that I learned a lot about being competitive, which has helped me a lot in the real world.

 

[StageLeft]

Lol, true

There's a solution to Unions, just don't hire their employees or sign agreements with them. That said outlawing them is unconstitutional.

Then that is the solution, although it only works going forward (e.g. Walmart), not really in reverse since by then you're already in bed with them and like a symbiotic relationship between a person and their alien chest-slug that now is required for their cardiovascular system to work it's too late to get rid of them.

 

[StageLeft]

Did you play sports in high school?

Haha, what do you think?!

Do you know how much schools make on certain sports programs, and the expenses that go with them? Just off the top of my head, my local school will pack at least 15,000 people in the stands for each football home game.. so that's at least $75,000 in ticket sales alone.

Do these sports programs really net the school money? I doubt it. If they do, then by all means keep them and I'll be quiet.

I ran cross country and track, and I can say that I learned a lot about being competitive, which has helped me a lot in the real world.

I've been into that a lot as an adult and I think it's great but CC and track are not the big-name activities engaged in by much of a school.

 

[MrEgo]

I was serious; I think they are a waste of time for the most part. Almost all the girls brush it off as a joke and many/most of the guys do, too. Gym class is basically play time. Kids who are serious about sports can do it outside of the school's time and dime. I think it's an unfortunately perpetuated myth that team sports in school are some fantastic addition to a kid's day.

I suppose you came from an entirely different environment than I did. Anyone that brushed off practice or screwed around in any sport would most likely be dismissed from the team. We had very competitive and successful sports programs, and that probably has a lot to do with leadership through coaching and the administrators that hired the coaches.

 

[Red Dawn]

Then that is the solution, although it only works going forward (e.g. Walmart), not really in reverse since by then you're already in bed with them and like a symbiotic relationship between a person and their alien chest-slug that now is required for their cardiovascular system to work it's too late to get rid of them.

Well the Superintendent of the School System in the article is getting rid of them.

You see Skoorbie here in the US people have the right to organize and associate with whom they please.

 

[MrEgo]

Do these sports programs really net the school money? I doubt it. If they do, then by all means keep them and I'll be quiet.

I don't know if they do or not, that's why I asked you because I figured you knew with such a strong opinion against them

 

[woolfe9999]

I don't have a problem with teachers having unions. I don't think teachers are overpaid. On a national average, I still think they are a bit underpaid, though this isn't true in every district or area.

The main issue I have with teacher's unions is their advocacy of excessive job security for teachers. I don't think we can have real educational reform without the ability to easily fire bad teachers. I also wouldn't mind seeing pay graded according to teaching skill, with good teachers making a premium, average teachers making less, and bad teachers losing their jobs.

This is also a problem with the democrats, obviously, who receive heavy contributions from the teacher's union, and thus are reluctant to take them on.
- wolf

 

[EagleKeeper]

It is almost impossible to decertify a public union.

However, you can eliminate the wrokers when they fail to follow instructions.

What will the union do now - set up a picket line?
The school system should shift the kids to another high school if possible rather than bringing in a new crop.

 

[aldamon]

The main issue I have with teacher's unions is their advocacy of excessive job security for teachers. I don't think we can have real educational reform without the ability to easily fire bad teachers. I also wouldn't mind seeing pay graded according to teaching skill, with good teachers making a premium, average teachers making less, and bad teachers losing their jobs. f

Very true. Hiring a good teacher can be more difficult than finding a good player in a draft and maybe just as random. My wife's a teacher and it amazes me how horrible a hire can go. Teachers that look great on paper or seem good in an interview turn out to be turds more often than not. Sometimes the opposite is true.

Unions just complicate this problem because you can't get rid of the bad teachers once you run out of excuses for them. NC is not a union state but it's still too hard to get rid of these people. They're supposed to be under probation for their first 3 years, but good luck dumping them without a file cabinet full of evidence.

 

[Zargon]

Did you play sports in high school?

Do you know how much schools make on certain sports programs, and the expenses that go with them? Just off the top of my head, my local school will pack at least 15,000 people in the stands for each football home game.. so that's at least $75,000 in ticket sales alone.

I ran cross country and track, and I can say that I learned a lot about being competitive, which has helped me a lot in the real world.

my soccer program paid for most of its costs on its own as well, via fundraising we did during the season.

I would have seriously disliked HS without soccer, instead of midly tolerating most of it.

 

[cubby1223]

Schools clearly waste money. I think all of them should shut down their sports programs, those are a fvcking joke. You should be learning algebra not how to kick a ball.

Two points here:

- Schools are there to prepare us with the skills to hold a job, and sports is a job
- For most schools, sports programs are a revenue source, not a money pit

 

[herkulease]

Not sure how serious this is, but I would consider an effective PE program to be nearly as important as math and science (and I'm a big believer in math and science).

I have no patience for badmiton or dodgeball, but sports like soccer, lacrosse, ultimate frisbee etc. are excellent for cardiovascular health, strength, coordination, teamwork, creativity, etc. And you need the artificial turf because of the number of kids using them.

If you play Badminton like most people do half ass it and play it like in their back yard you'll get zero fitness as you would play any other sport if you don't do it competitively or put little effort into it.

badminton requires everything you listed except strength. Its nice to have but if you lack strength it can be compensated for it other areas. It merely has a bad reputation in the United States of being a backyard game. Its better played indoors.

the problem in my area isn't teacher pay or sports program. Most students now end up paying to do the after school sports. the hs had a new track that was paid for by att and alumni who works for att.

We have wasteful administrative positions. There are now 4 vice principals(each with a secretary) for a high school of 2000 kids. No one really has a true idea what the hell those people do. discipline? Do they expect every day each vice principal will need to deal with 30+ kids who are trouble makers? I doubt they are fundraising since they are short on money and looking to cut positions