School improvement plan 1, The Teacher's union in Rhode Island 0

[rudder]

http://www.businessinsider.com/henr...more-per-day-so-town-fires-all-of-them-2010-2

So these teachers in Central Falls, Rhode Island who are making 3X the average salary, balked at an extra 25 minutes per day and two weeks of training in the summer (which based on the students performance this was definitely needed).

I applaud the schools superintendent trying to break the stranglehold teacher's unions have across this country. It is bad enough in New York they pay molesters a full salary among other cases (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/regional/item_48NrNnphtOVUduNabjufHK). The unions answer to everything is throw more money in the pot and stir. People complain money spent on healthcare has skyrocketed... but actually a larger percent increase has been spent on schools over the past few decades... with crappier results.

 

[StageLeft]

Teachers unions are terrible, I don't think unions should be allowed in public sector at all.

 

[Gand1]

Does that guy not look like a young, thin Ben Stein!! Talk about a doppelganger!!!

 

[StageLeft]

Does that guy not look like a young, thin Ben Stein!! Talk about a doppelganger!!!

That is Ben Stein, I assume from Ferris Bueller's day off.

 

[Gand1]

oh...damn...oops! LOL

 

[Gand1]

blond moment

 

[child of wonder]

Unions are great in principle, but, like all things involving people and money, too easily become corrupt.

In this case, it's the kids that get to suffer.

 

[rudder]

blond moment

You must have graduated high school in the mid 90's or later.

 

[Slick5150]

People complain money spent on healthcare has skyrocketed... but actually a larger percent increase has been spent on schools over the past few decades... with crappier results.

Uhh. Source?

 

[ElFenix]

does the training have any bearing on the courses being taught? anyone who knows a teacher knows that there are tons of staff meetings, training, etc., that teachers have to do that have absolutely nothing to do with what they are teaching. more and more extra-curricular crap is lumped on them by administrative people so that less and less time can be spent making lesson plans, grading, or anything else that is actually teaching. between that crap and the 0 tolerance crap, i'm fairly certain a good 2/3 of administrators should be canned.

 

[rudder]

Uhh. Source?

Runaway costs: education v. health care
Ralph Bristol
February 11, 2010

Projections are a tricky business, but if the trend continues, in the year 2050, it will cost more than $181,000 a year to educate one student in the average public school in the United States. Wages will have to grow a lot faster over the next 40 years than they have over the past 40 years in order for taxpayers to pay that bill.

According to the latest annual report by the National Education Association, public school revenues per student in the 2007-2008 school year averaged $12,186, based on average daily attendance. That is 15 times greater than the $816 per student spent on public education in 1969-70. In just under 40 years, the cost per student of public education soared 1,500 percent. If we have the same rate of increase over the next 40 years, the cost will be just under $182-thousand per student.

That rate of increase is even more shocking when you compare it to the growth of personal income, from which taxes are generated to pay for the schools.

In 1969, the median family income in the United States was $9,433. The latest figures available have today’s median family earning about $58,000. So, while the cost of educating a student has grown by 1,500 percent, the incomes to pay for that education have grown only about 600 percent.

Americans are rightly concerned about the cost of health care, which has risen even faster than education. In 1970, Americans spent $299 a year for health care. In 2008, the cost was $6,411 per person, a 21-fold increase, compared to the 15-fold increase in the cost of education per student.

But the quality and benefits of health care have also improved dramatically since 1970. Thanks largely to medical advances, today’s average life expectance is 78.8 years, an increase of eight years since 1970.

Unfortunately, public education has not seen the same kind of progress. The high cost of health care is unacceptable, but at least we have something to show for it.

The bottom line is both the cost of health care and public education are advancing much faster than the ability of Americans to pay for it. The thing that puzzles me is this. Nearly everyone seems to believe that health care costs are a problem – many say it’s a financial crisis. Yet, politicians routinely campaign on the promise to spend more and more on public education, and very few voters object.

I started making this argument about 10 years ago, when the cost per student in the U.S. reached $7,000. Ten years later, when that cost is more than $12,-thousand per student, I find myself asking the same question and getting no rational answer.

Why is the runaway cost of health care, which has made great advances, a financial crisis, while the runaway cost of public education, which has produced little if any improvement, not even acknowledged by elected officials who spend the money or the voters who provide the funds?

In hard economic times, when governors and legislatures are taking scalpels, hatchets and chain saws to other parts of their state budget, they are bending over backwards to prevent cutting the biggest expense of all – public education.

I’m hoping that people simply don’t know the facts, and when they do – they will stand up and demand something be done about this runaway spending train too. But, I’ve been hoping that for the last 10 years, and I’m still hearing most politicians, parents, and the media repeat the same, tired, false refrain that public education is struggling to cope with “scarce resources.” Nothing could be farther from the truth.


This guy is a local talk show host I Nashville. I have talked with him in person a few times. Unfortunately I do not have time to verify all his numbers.

 

[rudder]

does the training have any bearing on the courses being taught? anyone who knows a teacher knows that there are tons of staff meetings, training, etc., that teachers have to do that have absolutely nothing to do with what they are teaching. more and more extra-curricular crap is lumped on them by administrative people so that less and less time can be spent making lesson plans, grading, or anything else that is actually teaching. between that crap and the 0 tolerance crap, i'm fairly certain a good 2/3 of administrators should be canned.

Techniques that worked in 1950 don't necessarily work in 2010 or they have improved. Lots of new research in the last couple of decades. Getting decent training can help greatly.

http://www.education.com/reference/article/develop-assess-phonics-consonant-knowledge/

I am married to a teacher BTW. At least in her district it is the district superintendent that is overwhelmingly incompetent.

 

[Fenixgoon]

does the training have any bearing on the courses being taught? anyone who knows a teacher knows that there are tons of staff meetings, training, etc., that teachers have to do that have absolutely nothing to do with what they are teaching. more and more extra-curricular crap is lumped on them by administrative people so that less and less time can be spent making lesson plans, grading, or anything else that is actually teaching. between that crap and the 0 tolerance crap, i'm fairly certain a good 2/3 of administrators should be canned.

definitely true - there is a lot of useless BS associated with being a teacher.

 

[ElFenix]

Techniques that worked in 1950 don't necessarily work in 2010 or they have improved. Lots of new research in the last couple of decades. Getting decent training can help greatly.

http://www.education.com/reference/article/develop-assess-phonics-consonant-knowledge/

right, there is decent training available, but i'm not going to assume that's what the incompetent administrators are telling teachers they have to do. my mother was complaining the other day about having to go to training that had nothing to do with AP calculus.

 

[Hacp]

Unions aren't a bad concept. What makes them horrible is the fact that they have a stranglehold on elected officials. Then, you have all these rules preventing a company from hiring someone for less than union wages even if they're not in a union. Basically, unions should DIAF.

 

[ElFenix]

Unions aren't a bad concept. What makes them horrible is the fact that they have a stranglehold on elected officials. Then, you have all these rules preventing a company from hiring someone for less than union wages even if they're not in a union. Basically, unions should DIAF.

unions seek a monopoly on labor

(oh what a great thread that would be)

 

[RedChief]

Unions are fine in the private sector as long as they are not able to shut down entire sectors of the economy (re: dockworkers strike on the west coast shutting down all the ports between Seattle and San Diego).

I used to work HR for an ambulance company and I've seen why unions can be needed (the company disallows a red-headed hair challenged paramedic from wearing a navy blue cap, which matches his uniform, outside. as a red-head, not having a hat outside in the sun means you will be burnt).

Public employees should be covered under civil service laws and therefore don't need to be unionized.

 

[rudder]

right, there is decent training available, but i'm not going to assume that's what the incompetent administrators are telling teachers they have to do. my mother was complaining the other day about having to go to training that had nothing to do with AP calculus.

Maybe your mom's district administrator is corrupt like my wife's. I am convinced he gets kickbacks when he gets some company in to do irrelevant training for the teachers. She does get to go to a conference every summer that focuses on reading techniques at least.

 

[JeepinEd]

I think, for the most part, the amount of money that teachers make is justified. The problem is with all the unnecessary administrative staff, fancy buildings, incredible pensions (not just for teachers, but for all the admin people), insurance etc. Much of this is forced by the unions at costs that have become unsustainable. The unions have so much power, that the schools can't shop around for the best service.
I know a local computer store that had offered to service and maintain the school's computer at a very reasonable cost, but the school could not accept it because the store's employees were non union.

As I mention the computer store, another related example comes to mind:
My son's classroom only had one functioning computer. The rest were broken. The teacher had put in a request to get them fixed two months prior and was still somewhere in the back of the list. I spoke to his teacher and offered to fix the computers and pay for the parts myself, at no cost to the school. While the teacher was very happy, I soon received a call from the principal letting me know that she can't allow it because only union people are allowed to service the computers. Even if I'm doing it for free. At the end of the school year, only one of the computers had been fixed. The rest were still waiting for parts.

Not only is it more costly, but the broken computers aren't doing the students any good either.

 

[OutHouse]

"After learning of the union’s position, School Supt. Frances Gallo notified the state that she was switching to an alternative she was hoping to avoid: firing the entire staff at Central Falls High School. In total, about 100 teachers, administrators and assistants will lose their jobs."

i love this woman. i bet she has teachers and union attentions now.

jesus, HS teachers making 70K+ iand where the median income in the town is $22k and is comparable to Detroit????? holy shit how do they find the tax money to pay that kind of salary?

 

[piasabird]

Before I call the Teacher's union horrible names, I would like to point out that most high school teachers are required to have a Master's degree. Try paying the tuition all that time and you will see that school costs keep going up for college students. I think that $70,000 a year might be a little excessive since most teachers only work 9 months. Also, teachers often have other jobs that they are employed at during the summer. This may be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Typically teachers often spend a lot of time grading papers in the evening so they are already working late. Then there are teacher/parent conferences and other school events that often happen in the evening that they are expected to support. So there is more to being a teacher other than the 8:00am-3:30pm school day you may see as a student.

However, since I started working at a College over 10 years ago, I have seen lots of things that are just stupid. Having had children (2) who both went to local public schools, I have often wondered why they need all those stupid days off during the School Year. If they just subtracted all that wasteful time spent going to training and workshops during the year, they could have a shorter school year and have all their training right before (preferably) or right after the shorter school year. Then also why dont they end the term before Christmas Starts, Duh!!!!!

At our community college, we have one 16 week term that is finished right before Christmas. Then we have about a 1 week to 10 days during which Christmas and New Years are celebrated. Then we have another semester that ends around the end of May that is a second 16 week term. This includes a one week Spring Break.

Teachers are expected to make their own preparations in college to stay current in their field of study. We dont give college instructors any special time off for conferences or any career training.

Keep in mind that I do believe a Teacher's union should require teachers to teach a certain number of hours to earn their pay. However, it is not the teacher's reasponsibility to Tutor students in their spare time. However, maybe there should be some time when teachers should be available during the day when they have some kind of office hours when students could come and ask questions if they need a little help.

When I was in Grade School, my mom hired me a tutor to go to twice a week and that helped to fill in the gap. This could be a way for retired teachers to make some money to work with students. I found this helped a lot. Also students parents can spend some money for something like a Sylvan learning center or to go to other activities during the summer to help them improve and get ready to take college entrance exams. It takes extra effort on the part of parents to get their children to be ready to go to college. You can't blame low test scores on just the high school. Grow up already.

 

[OutHouse]

I think, for the most part, the amount of money that teachers make is justified. The problem is with all the unnecessary administrative staff, fancy buildings, incredible pensions (not just for teachers, but for all the admin people), insurance etc. Much of this is forced by the unions at costs that have become unsustainable. The unions have so much power, that the schools can't shop around for the best service.
I know a local computer store that had offered to service and maintain the school's computer at a very reasonable cost, but the school could not accept it because the store's employees were non union.

As I mention the computer store, another related example comes to mind:
My son's classroom only had one functioning computer. The rest were broken. The teacher had put in a request to get them fixed two months prior and was still somewhere in the back of the list. I spoke to his teacher and offered to fix the computers and pay for the parts myself, at no cost to the school. While the teacher was very happy, I soon received a call from the principal letting me know that she can't allow it because only union people are allowed to service the computers. Even if I'm doing it for free. At the end of the school year, only one of the computers had been fixed. The rest were still waiting for parts.

Not only is it more costly, but the broken computers aren't doing the students any good either.

see its things like this that cement my hatred of unions. let them try that shit in corporate world and see how fast they keep their job.

 

[Zargon]

I find it hard to believe that this isnt going to end up blowing up in the Supers face.

I am sure they signed a contract that he just violated because thats just how it works. And I agree with lots of what was said about how inane teachers uions are

 

[piasabird]

Be prepared for a Teacher's Strike, Court injunctions, and law suits. It can be expensive to mess with the system if you dont approach things with a little bit of logic and planning. Making stupid ultimatums is not the way to approach complex problems.

 

[Zargon]

Before I call the Teacher's union horrible names, I would like to point out that most high school teachers are required to have a Master's degree.

where is that at??? not in IL!!!