Question Scalping is bad, mmmm'k Newegg?

[VirtualLarry]

For a 1660, I might understand, but a 1650? This same card was $255 a few months earlier, and I thought that price was harsh.

 

[blckgrffn]

I like the argument that crypto frees people because I'm certain there are many people who have experienced freedom because of it. At least in the U.S., I think the biggest gun to people's heads is health insurance. It's essentially blackmail used by employers to keep people working. If people already had healthcare, they'd be free to choose a lower stress, lower demand job that is more flexible and may pay less, but they can live a simpler life where they'd be happier with more time to live and enjoy their family. Maybe a much smaller home in a rural community away from the city etc. But, they can't because they need that stressful city job to keep those outrageously expensive "benefits" for their family. They aren't "benefits" at all. It's blackmail and should be illegal to hold something so vital over people's heads. Every time you're stuck at a red light and might be late, your children's access to health care flashes before your eyes. It makes you hate the system, but you grit your teeth and trudge on because there is no other choice. That's slavery. If digital economies involving hardware could actually solve this problem, then we should go all in. However I'm sure it's not that simple.

Oh boy, triggered response. I apologize in advance.

Dude/Dudette - as an owner of a small business that offers health benefits and I am *personally* the one that does all the shopping, the legwork, the payroll deductions and all the rest I can assure you it just sucks for us too and I don't think any employer wants to deal with it. It's expensive, it a huge time and focus leach and you are always wondering if what you are providing is actually going to help your valued employees when they need it.

As a small employer I would *vastly* prefer paying some flat fee premium into a single (govt run? IDK but it doesn't matter) provider system and have our employees know they just use the same health care system as everyone else has.

The systems to setup healthcare benefits are byzantine and atrocious and require a lot of lingo learning and extra overhead. Staying with the "right" coverage to get the right tax breaks is annoying AF.

In this huge aside, to me the system is slanted so that:

A) For profit health insurance providers provide their shareholders ever increasing profits and
B) Create a scenario where large employers who can afford dedicated benefits coordination staff have a huge advantage over all small business.

A is generally worse than B except I run the small business in question so I hate both of them.

I say all of this because I think your hate of healthcare being tied to employers is not something employers relish either. It's a necessary evil for us as well. Save your hate for the system of for profit health care, please.

/end response.

I am not sure crypto will really help with this either. I feel like the time to make money on it was.... like 5 years ago. Mining now is just a dabbling hobby compared to what it was (provided you HODL''d). Which is maybe why I am still surprised it is such a thing.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

The tulip example gets thrown around a lot, but it's not particularly applicable. Farmers could (and many did) switch from other crops to grow tulips, which increased supply significantly. I don't thin the general understanding of supply and demand was quite as good at the time (all of this happened 100 years before Adam Smith had even published Wealth of Nations) which partially explains why it crashed in the way it did once people started to realize the situation the market was in.

I think you're missing the point of the tulip example. The tulip bubble wasn't about growing the flowers themselves. There was little if any farmer involvement. Most farmers wouldn't have been able to afford participating in the speculation anyway. The whole dutch tulip export thing came much, much later.

As a side note, if you ever find yourself in the Netherlands, I can only recommend seeing their tulip fields for yourself. It's quite a sight when they're in full flower.

The tulip bulbs where traded as what we today would understand as futures. People where doing wholesale speculation in these futures. I think it's telling the government had to convert those futures to what we'd consider options today, so people could get out of them, to prevent too much economic unrest.

Also at what point does an individual miner turn into a mining farm? I'm just curious as to where in your mind it goes from "okay, your equipment" to not? If I use just one watt fewer than an entire country would I still be okay?

When you get to the point where it's your primary income.

OK, full disclosure. I mined some bitcoin back in the day. Forgot about them until the price skyrocketed. I did pretty well out of them. So did the taxman.

I like the argument that crypto frees people because I'm certain there are many people who have experienced freedom because of it. At least in the U.S., I think the biggest gun to people's heads is health insurance. It's essentially blackmail used by employers to keep people working. If people already had healthcare, they'd be free to choose a lower stress, lower demand job that is more flexible and may pay less, but they can live a simpler life where they'd be happier with more time to live and enjoy their family. Maybe a much smaller home in a rural community away from the city etc. But, they can't because they need that stressful city job to keep those outrageously expensive "benefits" for their family. They aren't "benefits" at all. It's blackmail and should be illegal to hold something so vital over people's heads. Every time you're stuck at a red light and might be late, your children's access to health care flashes before your eyes. It makes you hate the system, but you grit your teeth and trudge on because there is no other choice. That's slavery. If digital economies involving hardware could actually solve this problem, then we should go all in. However I'm sure it's not that simple.

I've never understood the US approach to healthcare. It comes from living in a country where there is universal access to it. Is our system perfect? Hell no. But it's still much, much better then in the US.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I like the argument that crypto frees people because I'm certain there are many people who have experienced freedom because of it. At least in the U.S., I think the biggest gun to people's heads is health insurance. It's essentially blackmail used by employers to keep people working. If people already had healthcare, they'd be free to choose a lower stress, lower demand job that is more flexible and may pay less, but they can live a simpler life where they'd be happier with more time to live and enjoy their family. Maybe a much smaller home in a rural community away from the city etc. But, they can't because they need that stressful city job to keep those outrageously expensive "benefits" for their family. They aren't "benefits" at all. It's blackmail and should be illegal to hold something so vital over people's heads. Every time you're stuck at a red light and might be late, your children's access to health care flashes before your eyes. It makes you hate the system, but you grit your teeth and trudge on because there is no other choice. That's slavery. If digital economies involving hardware could actually solve this problem, then we should go all in. However I'm sure it's not that simple.

This is also why people advocate for UBI, and Healthcare for All.

Meanwhile, I've got my "Crypto UBI".

 

[VirtualLarry]

I am not sure crypto will really help with this either. I feel like the time to make money on it was.... like 5 years ago. Mining now is just a dabbling hobby compared to what it was (provided you HODL''d). Which is maybe why I am still surprised it is such a thing.

Hopes and Dreams, my friend. "If you mine it / HODL it, Profits will Come..."

 

[moonbogg]

Oh boy, triggered response. I apologize in advance.

Dude/Dudette - as an owner of a small business that offers health benefits and I am *personally* the one that does all the shopping, the legwork, the payroll deductions and all the rest I can assure you it just sucks for us too and I don't think any employer wants to deal with it. It's expensive, it a huge time and focus leach and you are always wondering if what you are providing is actually going to help your valued employees when they need it.

As a small employer I would *vastly* prefer paying some flat fee premium into a single (govt run? IDK but it doesn't matter) provider system and have our employees know they just use the same health care system as everyone else has.

The systems to setup healthcare benefits are byzantine and atrocious and require a lot of lingo learning and extra overhead. Staying with the "right" coverage to get the right tax breaks is annoying AF.

In this huge aside, to me the system is slanted so that:

A) For profit health insurance providers provide their shareholders ever increasing profits and
B) Create a scenario where large employers who can afford dedicated benefits coordination staff have a huge advantage over all small business.

A is generally worse than B except I run the small business in question so I hate both of them.

I say all of this because I think your hate of healthcare being tied to employers is not something employers relish either. It's a necessary evil for us as well. Save your hate for the system of for profit health care, please.

/end response.

I am not sure crypto will really help with this either. I feel like the time to make money on it was.... like 5 years ago. Mining now is just a dabbling hobby compared to what it was (provided you HODL''d). Which is maybe why I am still surprised it is such a thing.

I agree with you completely. I used too wide a brush with my descriptions, but the core of my argument remains. It's not even an argument. It's an observation and it's partially based on my own experience. The main issue is that health care is contingent upon employment at the right company or you have to make enough money on your own to buy it yourself. If everyone had it, the US would be transformed in drastic ways. I'm telling you man, many people would quit their jobs instantly and make less money by selling hobby work, providing services and just doing a variety of things to make money on their own terms. The only thing stopping many people from living the life of their dreams is health insurance. It stands between Americans and freedom in the one place on earth that claims to have it more than any other. Ironic that.

 

[blckgrffn]

I agree with you completely. I used too wide a brush with my descriptions, but the core of my argument remains. It's not even an argument. It's an observation and it's partially based on my own experience. The main issue is that health care is contingent upon employment at the right company or you have to make enough money on your own to buy it yourself. If everyone had it, the US would be transformed in drastic ways. I'm telling you man, many people would quit their jobs instantly and make less money by selling hobby work, providing services and just doing a variety of things to make money on their own terms. The only thing stopping many people from living the life of their dreams is health insurance. It stands between Americans and freedom in the one place on earth that claims to have it more than any other. Ironic that.

I don't disagree at all. The only reason I have been able to spend years hammering on getting a real business up and running is a spouse who makes enough and has good benefits to cover our family.

Equity doesn't buy groceries or health insurance at this point.

 

[Anderegg]

BTW, I have had two video cards fail on me and both were Asus cards.

Eeeek. I just sold my GTX 1080 Ti...started bidding at $500 and had a BIN at $700 within an hour. My loss to "scaling" is only what a GTX 1080 Ti would have been actually valued at used in 2021 without all the craziness, so maybe $150? Being realistic, how much would 1080 Ti's actually fetch used if 3080's were available at will for $700?

Paul

 

[aigomorla]

Eeeek. I just sold my GTX 1080 Ti...started bidding at $500 and had a BIN at $700 within an hour. My loss to "scaling" is only what a GTX 1080 Ti would have been actually valued at used in 2021 without all the craziness, so maybe $150? Being realistic, how much would 1080 Ti's actually fetch used if 3080's were available at will for $700?

Paul

about 150ish.. depending on make and model id assume..
Because you could get a 2080ti for around 400-500.... seeing how the 1080ti was priced around 300-400 when the 2080's came out.

The 1080 is 2 generations old... so you need to factor that.. and again... it would also matter on the maker... if it was a ASUS ROG or a EVGA FTW3 (ignoring Kingpin edition) as those are just expensive all around even if they are old.

 

[Shmee]

Congrats on a nice sale. What model was it? Did you get something better to replace it with?

I sold my 1080 Ti, an Aorus Xtreme, soon after the 3080s were announced, I got about $400 I believe. All good though, as I was able to pick up a new 5700XT Red Devil as a temporary solution for about $440. I was planning on then getting a 3080 or 6800XT when released, but of course things didn't work like that. I had to wait a few months and ended up getting the 3090 for a bit more than I wanted to spend.

 

[nosurprises]

I support mining for the reasons others stated, but most individuals are better off investing in coins or crypto companies than mining at this point. Mining is just not that profitable anymore unless you make a real business out of it and can scale it up to a lot of cards, and there are too many people doing it now. It's only worth it if you bought the card for games and mine to make some money back.

I tried mining a little bit with my 2070S I got a couple years ago. I could make $50 profit per month running it 24x7, but I found it to be too annoying to continue. The fan keeps blasting out hot air, and everything running hot in my PC. Maybe I would be more OK with it if the GPU is on very cheap hardware (a mining rig) so I don't feel like a waste of using my high-end MB, RAM, CPU, PSU, etc.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I tried mining a little bit with my 2070S I got a couple years ago. I could make $50 profit per month running it 24x7, but I found it to be too annoying to continue. The fan keeps blasting out hot air, and everything running hot in my PC. Maybe I would be more OK with it if the GPU is on very cheap hardware (a mining rig) so I don't feel like a waste of using my high-end MB, RAM, CPU, PSU, etc.

Did you undervolt, and underclock the core and boost the VRAM? That's what most miners do. Running at stock, mining, gets too hot, I agree. (I never tried mining with a 2070S.)

Nicehash's QuickMiner, has an OC tool, you can set it to "Efficient", or "Med." or "High". I might give that a shot, and set it to "Efficient". It might run cooler than you remember.

The key to mining, once you get the hang of it (if you can stand it), is to "scale it up".

For example, I have 20+ cards, all running, and make $40-50/day, not per month. Of course, that required a bit of investment into cards, which thankfully I mostly did just before the prices rose, way back in Dec. 2020. (I've bought 3x 1660 Super at "scalper prices" since then.)

 

[nosurprises]

I think if you're primary using the GPU to game, it's not worth mining with it -- unless it was in the early days where it's easy to get coins. Since you have dedicated hardware to mine, that would make more sense.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Whoa! I just had a similar card (the non-Super version) show up in stock at a local store here... couldn't justify spending CA$380 after all the taxes for it! O_O

 

[nosurprises]

Buy it and scalp it on ebay for a profit. Become what you hate

 

[aigomorla]

This Huge Stash Of Radeon RX 6000 Cards For Cryptominers Will Make You Want To Scream

We spied Radeon RX 6700 XT, Radeon RX 6800 XT, and even Radeon RX 6900 XT cards neatly sealed in their retail packaging.

hothardware.com

Sigh.... i really hate articles like these.
Its really the definition of rubbing salt on an open wound.... probably more like dumping a bag of it in open heart surgery.
It pisses me off more that they are 6700's.

They were somewhat becoming reasonable with the lowest price i saw at 799.99

But now with dumb articles like this, it will probably shoot back up in the 1000 dollar territory.

 

[beginner99]

There was a YT video put out, about the best cards to buy and the best method to spec-mine RVN, in order to become a millionaire in two years, if the coin went from $0.10 to $10.00 (which it well may, I hope that it does). The procedure essentially involved buying like 6-8 GTX 1650 Super cards, and building a rig, and letting it sit on RVN for two years.

That sounds way to convoluted. Why not just buy RVN directly. 6-8 cards at $255 (and now more) is still >$1500.

 

[aigomorla]

Evil rumours suggest Nvidia's GPU supply is about to drop by 30%

And in before you say 'well, what's the difference if it's 30% of nothing?'

www.pcgamer.com

But i agree with the writers comment.. 30% of 0 is still 0... lol

BTW can i say this is the first time i have not seen a reference card for a generation.
Usually my friends or family would have a reference design, but reference designs are so ridiculously difficult to get, that i have yet to see one.

Makes that new pci-e power plug standard completely pointless, if no one has the cards to make it a "standard"

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I propose a new law of the internet @VirtualLarry 's Law of the Internet: All conversations involving GPUs will always decay into a discussion about mining. Larry's Law for short, has a nice alliterative ring to it.

I am curious to see how this Christmas season goes. Normally manufacturers would be increasing orders to prepare for the sales volume, but if everyone is already tapped out I suspect prices are going to go gangbusters on everything as Mom's can't find little Timmy the 3080Ti he wanted so she goes and gets him the 6700XT or 6600XT that is actually there on the shelf.

I would assume the first wave of "price drops" are going to show up in February/March of 2022.

Just talking out my ass here, don't mind me.

 

[aigomorla]

I would assume the first wave of "price drops" are going to show up in February/March of 2022.

I double down and say not til Q4 of 2022, as TSMC's Arizona FAB in the US won't be operational until then, probably even later.
Intel will obviously milk the GPU price hikes as much as possible as they perfect their yield process. And believe me, Intel can get really good at perfecting a yield and then dropping prices like a avalanche... (660p nvme for example).

Since TSMC has a pile up of orders coming from both auto industry + gpu's where i believe auto's will take priority.
Seeing a price reduction @ end of Q1 2022 is wishing for the moon.

 

[moonbogg]

Maybe we need at least one of these in every mining related thread on our forums?

View attachment 49776

I'm not sure it's possible to express how amazing this image is. Did you draw it? Regarding Larry's Law, I think it could literally be true. If a GPU conversation is short and about something specific, then mining likely won't come up. However, if that conversation were to be artificially extended, then certainly it would decay into a discussion about mining. This is like zooming out on a graph. It looks a certain way up close, but zooming out shows the trend. It's also like a convergent infinite series in math. The sums of many terms occur for a very long time, but it all converges on a single number. In this case, the convergence of a conversation about GPUs on the topic of mining is described by Larry's Law. This is now a science.

 

[UsandThem]

I'm not sure it's possible to express how amazing this image is. Did you draw it? Regarding Larry's Law, I think it could literally be true. If a GPU conversation is short and about something specific, then mining likely won't come up. However, if that conversation were to be artificially extended, then certainly it would decay into a discussion about mining. This is like zooming out on a graph. It looks a certain way up close, but zooming out shows the trend. It's also like a convergent infinite series in math. The sums of many terms occur for a very long time, but it all converges on a single number. In this case, the convergence of a conversation about GPUs on the topic of mining is described by Larry's Law. This is now a science.

Nah, I'm too lazy to do anything that involved.

I just used Larry's avatar and used Microsoft Paint to give it a little extra flair.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I think @IronWing deserves the credit for the image.

 

[moonbogg]

-Ok, Modification on Larry's Law: All internet discussions regarding GPUs, given enough time, will decay into a discussion regarding mining.

Added the time element. Signed, sealed, delivered.

This feels solid. This was good work. Nice job.

Nah, I'm too lazy to do anything that involved.

I just used Larry's avatar and used Microsoft Paint to give it a little extra flair.

Oh, geeze. I totally missed that. I think Larry's Law has some decent meme potential within tech forums. I'll frequently refer to it as if it's a thing until it becomes one. Come to think of it, I actually do think it's probably a real thing these days. Anyone these days who cares enough about GPUs to even talk about them also knows about mining, and yes, the discussion will definitely go toward mining. It's definitely a law.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

This feels solid. This was good work. Nice job.

Oh, geeze. I totally missed that. I think Larry's Law has some decent meme potential within tech forums. I'll frequently refer to it as if it's a thing until it becomes one. Come to think of it, I actually do think it's probably a real thing these days. Anyone these days who cares enough about GPUs to even talk about them also knows about mining, and yes, the discussion will definitely go toward mining. It's definitely a law.

-Ok, Modification on Larry's Law: All internet discussions regarding GPUs, given enough time, will decay into a discussion regarding mining.

Added the time element. Signed, sealed, delivered.

Seconded, thirded and so on!

Now, how do we spread this, people?
9gag or other forums ?

 

[Mopetar]

There's nothing worse in life than a forced meme. It's enjoyable here because of the community and all of the people who understand the joke and will have a good chuckle over it.

The rest of the internet wouldn't and trying to ram it down their throats is pointless. So quit trying to make "fetch" happen.