Saw this question on r/atheism today.

[Nemesis 1]

Tell it to the stiener

 

[Retro Rob]

I can't answer this question; it's too vague.

In general, the more extraordinary the claim, the more extraordinary the evidence required to back it up. I would have a much easier time believing in God if there were world-wide floods that disappear in 40 days, the sun stopping still, towers of flame, food falling from the sky, seas splitting apart, God appearing and speaking in a booming voice, etc.

Well, I was only wondering because a lot of people asks for evidence and are extrememly vauge themselves. That's why I asked specifically what you would require.

FWIW, you've already said that its a book of myths anyway, and considering your religious history and your post history on the subject, you're well-cemented in your beliefs, or lack thereof.

So I would be wasting my time.

I just wanted to know what would be enough evidence for you, for fyi purposes.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I can see the schools really were effective.

Tell it Albert . A man you was given the power to destroy all. From his jewish god.

 

[Ausm]

You Mean Aman RA or Amen Ra Or Amun Ra . YOU do pray to this god . Its at the end of all prayer AMEN

No I was thinking more of Horus and Osiris.

Not sure where you got Amen from but Amun means crowned with feathers.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

FWIW, you've already said that its a book of myths anyway, and considering your religious history and your post history on the subject, you're well-cemented in your beliefs, or lack thereof.

I said it's a book of myths in large part because it describes supposed supernatural events that conveniently only took place in the past and never happen now.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Logic can be applied to the question, but logic is not monopolized by science.

You know what a Barber shop post sign is correct . The red in the spiral you know what that is a symbol of . Its there because science is logic , Barbers use to bleed people if they were ill . Talk about a bunch of retards.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I said it's a book of myths in large part because it describes supposed supernatural events that conveniently only took place in the past and never happen now.

Pick a number man of understanding . 1 million 2 million 10 million how many will you choose to prove magic exist in our time . The millions are peoples lives be it monkeys doesn't matter. Pick a number . I put the magic in your hands . threw convection. You will know and feel the heat oh wiseman.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You know, for awhile we were actually being civil. I was surprised.

I was equally surprised that for a while you were being reasonable.

ou're right. It's unfalsifiable. In terms of science, there is no way to prove God.

Then what the fuck was your coffee argument supposed to show? Why even make it if you're just going to concede the point the argument was contesting? This is why you don't deserve any respect. You do not debate in good faith.

But science is not the authority on concepts that cannot be described by science, as I was discussing with Charles.

That's great but meaningless. Science is the authority for determining reliable facts about external reality. If you concede that your god is not a thing existing in external reality then we have nothing to argue about. But you don't even really know. Any description of your god would be purely conjecture anyway. See how pointless theism is?

In terms of the cup of coffee, I think we see it this way. I see atheists as looking at a cup of coffee and saying, "No one made it." You see theists looking at nothing and saying, "Someone made a cup of coffee."

But that isn't even slightly analogous. We know how cups of coffee come to exist. We have seen it. We have done it ourselves. It happens millions of times a day.

How much of that is true of the universe?

So is there a cup of coffee on my desk or not?

I don't know. What does it have to do with anything? Stop being stupid and think.

 

[Juddog]

You Mean Aman RA or Amen Ra Or Amun Ra . YOU do pray to this god . Its at the end of all prayer AMEN

I pray to Thor. He's not some pussy god.

 

[Juddog]

Well, I was only wondering because a lot of people asks for evidence and are extrememly vauge themselves. That's why I asked specifically what you would require.

FWIW, you've already said that its a book of myths anyway, and considering your religious history and your post history on the subject, you're well-cemented in your beliefs, or lack thereof.

So I would be wasting my time.

I just wanted to know what would be enough evidence for you, for fyi purposes.

Show us something besides "the universe exists, therefore god". You can replace the therefore part with any number of magical animals (e.g. the Flying Spaghetti Monster), which is why that proof fails.

Real evidence. Complexity is not evidence of a God, it's only evidence that complexity developed over time. You have to show something concrete. In other words, if you were to take your god versus the 1000 other Gods in various religions throughout the world, show us what would prove that your God exists, versus "some magical entity made all this stuff" type argument I keep seeing.

 

[Nemesis 1]

No I was thinking more of Horus and Osiris.

Not sure where you got Amen from but Amun means crowned with feathers.

You . just named the other 2 gods that make the trinity . All three are the same god

Define Gay for me . Define Bald for me . Those who truely rule been changing meanings of words for thousands of years . Best way to hide truth in plan site. Also your search efforts are weak at best .

 

[Juddog]

Nemesis, time to take your meds buddy and step away from the computer for a bit. Go do something relaxing then come back.

 

[Moonbeam]

Rob M: What would you deem "Real evidence", Charles?

CK: Some of the stuff the bible claims actually happened would be a good start.
-----------------
Well I think there is good evidence that Jesus was a real person who lived a few thousand years ago. That never did anything for me. And if I saw miracles I would dismiss them as tricks. In short I am not sure I could ever again have any religious faith of that kind.

No, I have a very different take on religion, that the meaning of the word God and all the gods that came before and compete today, and all other related concepts found more in Eastern culture are about an inner experience that is transformative.

What do I mean by that. Well, what you experience internally is not something that is visible from the outside and not things we have much of a language for. I have hear that Arabic and Persian are much better at this kind of language but don't really know personally.

But imagine for a moment that for thousands of years people have been experiencing a state of consciousness that changes everything about them, that some people sometimes wake up from a sleep or suddenly are filled with love. We could, in out time and place, maybe call this God consciousness, but the work God definitely has problems. Or maybe we could call it the science of consciousness, the understanding of the human mind from the inside, the awareness of all the states that the human mind is capable of.

If so that maybe you can see the logic that in order to know God you would have to experience that state of consciousness in which you can know him, or, if you wanted to experience a state that would completely transform your consciousness you would have to do the scientific experiments that lead to its production. And you would have to find a 'school' that teaches this. So one step on such a journey would be to try to find out if such a school exists. Seek and you shall find as they say. I read something from something that purported to be a school somewhere that truth is a substance with its own inner justice, that it can't be given to those who don't deserve it and can't be kept from those who do, and that new organs of perception grow with need, and also that the truth is protected by its immediate unlikelihood.

But anyway, my feeling is that this God thingi can't be had anywhere other than within, but when whatever it is happens it removes all doubt. That's the bad news. The good news of course, is that all that is horse shit about religion and gods and makes absolutely no sense, is only the remnants of old schools building a bridge. The bridge built for you today would be completely different but it would still be only a bridge. It is only the transformation that matters.

 

[Retro Rob]

I said it's a book of myths in large part because it describes supposed supernatural events that conveniently only took place in the past and never happen now.

I mean, it's just not happening now. We obviously can't recreate these events.

It depends on how much credibility the Bible holds with you. If it holds none, then you won't believe anything. If it holds some, you're likely to investigate the claim yourself. If it's the "Word of God" to you, then you'd trust what it says.

With me, I to this day research facts in the book, and it holds weight with me. So, it's not hard for me to believe that these events happened.

I am not complete in my efforts of gathering information, but I just cannot rely on modern science to substantiate "supernatural" events, since these events fall completely out of the scientific realm. That doesn't make them false, but they aren't "testable" either.

 

[Retro Rob]

Show us something besides "the universe exists, therefore god". You can replace the therefore part with any number of magical animals (e.g. the Flying Spaghetti Monster), which is why that proof fails.

Real evidence. Complexity is not evidence of a God, it's only evidence that complexity developed over time. You have to show something concrete. In other words, if you were to take your god versus the 1000 other Gods in various religions throughout the world, show us what would prove that your God exists, versus "some magical entity made all this stuff" type argument I keep seeing.

What's not "real evidence" to you may be "real" to someone else.

See the above post to Charles.

 

[Juddog]

I mean, it's just not happening now. We obviously can't recreate these events.

It depends on how much credibility the Bible holds with you. If it holds none, then you won't believe anything. If it holds some, you're likely to investigate the claim yourself. If it's the "Word of God" to you, then you'd trust what it says.

With me, I to this day research facts in the book, and it holds weight with me. So, it's not hard for me to believe that these events happened.

I am not complete in my efforts of gathering information, but I just cannot rely on modern science to substantiate "supernatural" events, since these events fall completely out of the scientific realm. That doesn't make them false, but they aren't "testable" either.

Which parts of the Bible do you hold to be true events, and which parts do you hold to be parables?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Tell it to the stiener

Tell it to Sitchin. I see you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75x4q1Llq8Y

 

[Ausm]

You . just named the other 2 gods that make the trinity . All three are the same god

Define Gay for me . Define Bald for me . Those who truely rule been changing meanings of words for thousands of years . Best way to hide truth in plan site. Also your search efforts are weak at best .

O'rly I know you need no definition for what it takes to be an asshole.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I mean, it's just not happening now. We obviously can't recreate these events.

If I wrote an autobiography in which I claimed that in the past I had walked on water, flown by flapping my arms, and produced fire at will in the palm of my hand, you'd probably ask me to do these things so you could see them for yourself.

And if I answered "oh, well, I used to be able to do them, honest, but it's just not happening now" -- would you believe me?

It depends on how much credibility the Bible holds with you. If it holds none, then you won't believe anything. If it holds some, you're likely to investigate the claim yourself. If it's the "Word of God" to you, then you'd trust what it says.

Why should I give it any credibility? On what basis?

Why do you think it's the "Word of God"? Are you honest enough with yourself to ask that question and answer it candidly?

With me, I to this day research facts in the book, and it holds weight with me.

So far the only one you've mentioned is a vague prediction of a city being destroyed, and that city is one of many that have been destroyed over the last 2,000+ years. How does that mean anything?

Just admit it: you want the book to be true, so you look for anything you can to convince yourself that it is. This is a standard you would accept for *nothing* else. It's totally arbitrary.

What's not "real evidence" to you may be "real" to someone else.

Dishonest hand-waving.

I want the same level of evidence that I demand of anything else before I believe it.

 

[Ausm]

I pray to Thor. He's not some pussy god.

I like this image!

 

[FelixDeCat]

What's not "real evidence" to you may be "real" to someone else.

See the above post to Charles.

When trying to win an "argument" atheists tend to grab at straws, especially when losing said argument. Over time they have developed defenses to stop them from seeing past the end of their noses because they are afraid that not only does God exist, but they might actually believe in Him as well.

Obviously you and I know the truth about God, that He is the divine Creator of all things and if need be speaks to us to bring non believers to Him. But it is Jesus they need to pay attention to.

Instead of trying to mock and malign Jesus they should approach Him in their own way and let their relationship with Him grow. One day they too may wake up in Heaven as a result.

In the meantime we have to take the arrows of their resistance to God and Jesus.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

When trying to win an "argument" atheists tend to grab at straws, especially when losing said argument.

Rather ironic start to a post that responds to a request for evidence with no evidence and just a lot of whining.

Nicely ties us back to the theme of the original post.

 

[Juddog]

When trying to win an "argument" atheists tend to grab at straws, especially when losing said argument. Over time they have developed defenses to stop them from seeing past the end of their noses because they are afraid that not only does God exist, but they might actually believe in Him as well.

Quite the strawman argument you have there.

This is how the "argument" has taken place so far:
* Religionists: there is a god, it says so in this book from 2000 years ago
* Atheists: What proof do you have?
* Religionists: Well I don't have any actual proof, other than the fact that the universe exists, and that there is complexity in nature
* Atheists: That's not proof.
* Meowkat: All you atheists are just grabbing at straws and really are just afraid of God!
* Atheists:

 

[Nemesis 1]

Tell it to Sitchin. I see you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75x4q1Llq8Y

The problem with your link is Catholic schools were teaching about semerions. well befor stitch. Rome holds more ancient text the the whole world combined. I don't understand why they taught as they taught but they did teach rather interesting subjects .When the Alexander libary burned do you really think that text was LOST . Or was it stoolen and covered up by fire . The Church would stop at nothing to get that text out of circulation . The HRCC the orginal book burners

Yes I watch the stitch videos . Thats nor where my basicly knowledge of this people comes from . Read the first book of adam and eve its really a great read truth or fiction . If you like that than read the second . But like all things its what story you read that has substance to it .

 

[Juddog]

The problem with your link is Catholic schools were teaching about semerions. well befor stitch. Rome holds more ancient text the the whole world combined. I don't understand why they taught as they taught but they did teach rather interesting subjects .When the Alexander libary burned do you really think that text was LOST . Or was it stoolen and covered up by fire . The Church would stop at nothing to get that text out of circulation . The HRCC the orginal book burners

Yes I watch the stitch videos . Thats nor where my basicly knowledge of this people comes from . Read the first book of adam and eve its really a great read truth or fiction . If you like that than read the second . But like all things its what story you read that has substance to it .

WTF is a semerian, and why do people want to throw them?