You must not read crime statistics threads (they're always debated in other forums, not talked about much here for some reason)
People always cry about this report or that one, crime reporting methodology, methods that the FBI or other government agencies tally crime statistics, crime reported vs. case solved, whether people report crimes or not, etc. I mentioned one report that rates the US behind Canada in crime (that is the US has less crime than Canada), I'm sure I can find 5 more that say the opposite. For some reason it's a pretty sensitive subject.You are BLIND if you think that this is being American, and portraying important issues? ALL SPIN for the sole attempt at swaying an election. Would something like this be in mass distribution if it were about Kerry? Nope.
I hope to God Bush is elected and he tells the Justice department to carefully audit Moore and his Miramix partners. :
r. Evil'esq Grin, Laugh, Rubbing Hands together muh huh huh huh ::Then again, I don't suppose that would be as corrupt as pardoning a person (Marc Rich) who has been evading more than $48 million in taxes... No, not at all...
I think every country in the world calls itself the most ethnically diverse country in the world. Some respected reports even put Uganda as the most ethnically diverse country in the world. Countries like Indonesia practice fine-grain ethnicity - I think they have over 300 different ethnicities.
Well I'm not talking about murder, but there's even debate about murder statistics. Even what a violent crime is - some people think rape is a violent crime but some reports won't consider it one.
I wasn't really talking about your discussion, just making a generic comment about BFC and crime statistics.
Anyways, maybe it's because there are more urban areas and a higher population. People probably have less social help from the government, too. Or maybe it's all the Canadians that come down to vent out their anger
Stunt
Diamond Member
- Jul 17, 2002
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"maybe it's because there are more urban areas and a higher population."
The US ranks 163rd in terms of population density. Pop Density
And because you have more urban centres doesnt mean anything. Toronto, London, Amsterdam, etc etc are all fairly large cities. I'm sure criminals are not commiting crimes in Chicago because Detroit exsits. Just as Toronto criminals are not going to murder less because there isn't more urban centres.
Toronto is 4.2 million and had a murder rate of 24 per million over 1997-2002.
Chicago is 2.9 million and had a murder rate of 229 per million over 1997-2002. [data]
"it's all the Canadians that come down to vent out their anger"
yeah...so all the americans convicted in your system were falsly accused and canadians should be charged.
yeah...that's logical. Despirate for reasons are we?
The US ranks 163rd in terms of population density. Pop Density
And because you have more urban centres doesnt mean anything. Toronto, London, Amsterdam, etc etc are all fairly large cities. I'm sure criminals are not commiting crimes in Chicago because Detroit exsits. Just as Toronto criminals are not going to murder less because there isn't more urban centres.
Toronto is 4.2 million and had a murder rate of 24 per million over 1997-2002.
Chicago is 2.9 million and had a murder rate of 229 per million over 1997-2002. [data]
"it's all the Canadians that come down to vent out their anger"
yeah...so all the americans convicted in your system were falsly accused and canadians should be charged.
yeah...that's logical. Despirate for reasons are we?
I'm not talking about population density. Just more urban areas.
Jesus, that's just a joke. Lighten up, you take everything so seriously.
Anyways, you missed my 2 points.
Stunt
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Again, i higly doubt that people commit more murders because there are more urban centres.
Look at a per city basis and there is a big difference in murder rates in other countries compared to the US.
still looking for a good reason for the increased murder rates.
Oh and the murders in Canada wer by americans...so we have no murders...hah...im funny...
Look at a per city basis and there is a big difference in murder rates in other countries compared to the US.
still looking for a good reason for the increased murder rates.
Oh and the murders in Canada wer by americans...so we have no murders...hah...im funny...
I have to agree that US news networks overblow everything that is bad and ignore the good. There is a saying; There is no news like bad news.
That's because it can and it does work.
Canada is different because most of our laws are based around protecting civil rights and having respect for a variety of backgrounds. That's what makes Canada special.
Countries like the US, UK, and Australia have a history of passing laws to prohibit civil rights and to protect a minority. In their case a minority is the political elite. They aren't a police state yet nor have they completely converted to a spiting image of Nazi Germany but they are nowhere near the shining beacon of Civil Rights and Liberties.
They aren't alone, as there are plenty of other nations whom are doing the same thing, just not at the same intensity.
Granted Canada also has its faults, as do any nation with a political system, where things that are normally behind closed doors are revealed to the public.
Canada isn't crystal clean, but at least I can see the dirt, unlike the US, UK, and others whom are dirty enough that it would take dozens of generations to overcome it.
Here are the ones I can come up with from the top of my head that are all criminal where no real justice has or ever will be done;
Japanese internment 1942
(fuzzy on Canadian civil rights violation between 1942 and 1994, anyone is welcome to add anything)
RCMP and Canadian Forces at Oka 1994
OPP at Ipperwash 1995
RCMP at Gustafsen Lake, fully supported by NDP Attorney General of BC 1995
Walkerton E Coli. Tragedy, thanks to Conservative cuts and outsourcing of public safety system 2000
Security of Information Act
Passing bill-C36, bill-C35 every politician guilty of not reading it or understanding the implications and then supporting it, Nov 2001
Maher Arar deported by US then tortured by Syria (asked specific questions regarding his involvment with a known terrorist in Canada that only the RCMP and CSIS knew), at request of and or approval of CSIS and RCMP whom also provided evidence (fact or fiction) to support the deportation Sep 2002
RCMP search the home and office (thx to bill-C36) of Juliet O'Neill an Ottawa Citizen reporter who reported on evidence re Maher Arar deportation/torture Jan 2004
Muayyed Nureddin arrested while crossing into Syria and subsequently tortured (again specific information used against him) he is seeking to be added to the Arar Inquiery 2004
Liberal Sponsorship Scandle 2004
No end in sight.
I'm sure there are lots more but quite frankly I can pretty much name most of them. Can't say the same for other nations.
The US is one of the largest consumers of drugs in the world, if not the largest.
Want to cut crime dramatically including Murder rate?
End the War on Drugs and instead treat it as a medical problem since thats what it is.
Edit: Do you realize what prohibition did to the US when you guys banned alcohol? Do you know what happend when it was lifted? The US still hasn't fully recovered from that and there are plenty of rich people walking around whos family got rich off prohibition and all those dead Americans. I'm not just talking about the Mob but also those who illegally sold alcohol to the Mob like the Canadian Bronfmans who ended up owning major US firms like Universal Pictures, and virtually every single brand name alcohol sold in North America and elsewhere. They impact the US even today.
Originally posted by: M0NEYSH0T
You are BLIND if you think that this is being American, and portraying important issues? ALL SPIN for the sole attempt at swaying an election. Would something like this be in mass distribution if it were about Kerry? Nope.
I hope to God Bush is elected and he tells the Justice department to carefully audit Moore and his Miramix partners. :
Then again, I don't suppose that would be as corrupt as pardoning a person (Marc Rich) who has been evading more than $48 million in taxes... No, not at all...
I hope to God Bush is elected and he tells the Justice department to carefully audit Moore and his Miramix partners. :
r. Evil'esq Grin, Laugh, Rubbing Hands together muh huh huh huh ::THAT's the America we are becoming...
all Moore does in this movie is ask questions...he has no answers...except to say that we have a problem, and it appears the MEDIA is fueling our fear (you conservatives love to hate the MEDIA right? well, there ya go, you were right after all...)
and MURDER of children is not an important issue in your world?
And I seem to remember several month/years of continual "hunting of the president" when Mr Clinton was in office...now all of a sudden it's a crime to question our president and his policies...
WAKE UP...this is what America is about...if you don't like something, challenge it and CHANGE it. I can only pray that the non-voters out there will get out and VOTE this year...then we will see which man is our President. Bush is the most dangerous president this country has seen since Nixon. But wait, Nixon was republican...he couldn't have done anything wrong...
sandorski
No Lifer
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Originally posted by: Bonesdad
Originally posted by: M0NEYSH0T
You are BLIND if you think that this is being American, and portraying important issues? ALL SPIN for the sole attempt at swaying an election. Would something like this be in mass distribution if it were about Kerry? Nope.
I hope to God Bush is elected and he tells the Justice department to carefully audit Moore and his Miramix partners. :
Then again, I don't suppose that would be as corrupt as pardoning a person (Marc Rich) who has been evading more than $48 million in taxes... No, not at all...
I hope to God Bush is elected and he tells the Justice department to carefully audit Moore and his Miramix partners. :
THAT's the America we are becoming...
all Moore does in this movie is ask questions...he has no answers...except to say that we have a problem, and it appears the MEDIA is fueling our fear (you conservatives love to hate the MEDIA right? well, there ya go, you were right after all...)
and MURDER of children is not an important issue in your world?
And I seem to remember several month/years of continual "hunting of the president" when Mr Clinton was in office...now all of a sudden it's a crime to question our president and his policies...
WAKE UP...this is what America is about...if you don't like something, challenge it and CHANGE it. I can only pray that the non-voters out there will get out and VOTE this year...then we will see which man is our President. Bush is the most dangerous president this country has seen since Nixon. But wait, Nixon was republican...he couldn't have done anything wrong...
..but you(US) are at War. You must support the President in a time of War!
Of course that "War" is so ill-defined that you can practically ignore those who attacked the US and use the "War" to attack others based on shady reasoning.
The US is much more diverse than most of Europe. The UK is something like 97% white, the US won't even have an ethnic majority in a few more decades. In some areas (So. CAlifornia), there already isn't one.
Second, what causes are crime rates is a complex question and one that can't even be touched on in a shallow 2 hour film. There is an entire science (criminology) devoted to studying crime. People spend their lives pouring over statistics and talking with people and communities to understand and prevent murder and crime. None of them seriously believe it's the fault of the Media. There are plenty of theories floating around with some decent evidence to back them up, it's most likely some sort of combination.
What we do know about our high murder rate, is that it's causes by certain segments of our population, and is not a problem experienced everywhere here. The vast majority of the US is just as safe as anywhere else. Most communities in the US have murder rates in line or lower than Canada or Europe.
However, the ghettos and similar areas of this country completely throw off those statistics. Murder rates are several orders of magnitude larger than in most of the country. Half of all murders in LA take place in South Central. If you want to find out why LA has so many murders, you should be in South Central. Of course if you really want to find out why and not just make a quick buck and shock some retards in the theater, you'd have to spend a few months out there talking with families, police, community leaders, gang members, store owners, the people who live out our high murder rate every day. You have to be looking at statistics to see when murders go up and when they go down, and try and figure out what made them change.
And that crap about Canada and locking doors is BS. On another forum (somethingawful), we had an informal survey and there was no difference between Canadians and Americans. Plenty of Canadians lock their doors, and plenty of Americans don't. Going to a couple houses and cherry picking your statistics means NOTHING.
Second, what causes are crime rates is a complex question and one that can't even be touched on in a shallow 2 hour film. There is an entire science (criminology) devoted to studying crime. People spend their lives pouring over statistics and talking with people and communities to understand and prevent murder and crime. None of them seriously believe it's the fault of the Media. There are plenty of theories floating around with some decent evidence to back them up, it's most likely some sort of combination.
What we do know about our high murder rate, is that it's causes by certain segments of our population, and is not a problem experienced everywhere here. The vast majority of the US is just as safe as anywhere else. Most communities in the US have murder rates in line or lower than Canada or Europe.
However, the ghettos and similar areas of this country completely throw off those statistics. Murder rates are several orders of magnitude larger than in most of the country. Half of all murders in LA take place in South Central. If you want to find out why LA has so many murders, you should be in South Central. Of course if you really want to find out why and not just make a quick buck and shock some retards in the theater, you'd have to spend a few months out there talking with families, police, community leaders, gang members, store owners, the people who live out our high murder rate every day. You have to be looking at statistics to see when murders go up and when they go down, and try and figure out what made them change.
And that crap about Canada and locking doors is BS. On another forum (somethingawful), we had an informal survey and there was no difference between Canadians and Americans. Plenty of Canadians lock their doors, and plenty of Americans don't. Going to a couple houses and cherry picking your statistics means NOTHING.
Originally posted by: Stunt
Again, i higly doubt that people commit more murders because there are more urban centres.
Look at a per city basis and there is a big difference in murder rates in other countries compared to the US.
still looking for a good reason for the increased murder rates.
Oh and the murders in Canada wer by americans...so we have no murders...hah...im funny...
I really do think that urban centers create more violence - it's debated a lot. Why are you just dismissing the lack of social help from the government, too? If you highly doubt that it is a factor, chances are it is given your reputation
Plus, I think Toronto should have a low crime rate. Isn't it dominated by Indian and Chinese immigrants and their descendants? I would think those ethnic groups commit less crime since they're usually higher income ethnicities (at least in the US Indians and Chinese). I think some call it the most multicultural or ethnically diverse city in the world - more proof that multiculturalism and diversity works for the non-believers that have already stated that it is a failure.
Stunt
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I agree urban centres have increased crime. Look at the average small town and the numbers would be less. But 10 times more murders in a US city than a canadian...sounds pretty rough to me...There has got to be a reason for the large discrepancy in figures.
Toronto is not dominated by indian and chinese immigrants. Some here are saying that the US is more culturally diverse. So you should have less with that reasoning.
43% are visible minorities in Toronto. Link
26% of whom are south asian, 22% Chinese, 19% Black.
42% of people in Chicago are white. 42% black
so make of it what you will...base it on race if you will...you could argue some races are more prone to murders...i wouldnt say that but form your own judgements...
judasmachine
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- Sep 15, 2002
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The consevatives at Disney almost didn't let F911 get released. The filmakers may be liberal but they are still subject to their billionaire sugardaddies the right leaning corporate execs.
it's just too easy to lump people into liberals/conservatives/neocons/homosexuals/whatever and avoid facing up to real questions... I'm not even sure what the hell is a liberal or a conservative anymore... anyone care to define these terms that are lobbed around with such abandon here (and in the hallowed mass media, by the way)?
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