Sapphire 7990 or Galaxy GTX 780 HOF Edition?

[tolis626]

Eh?....do we still have people that not realise the total memory and bandwidth is halved in CF, that 3GB and 384bit bus.....so half of Titans memory....and while AMD has got their act together with 7xxx CF on single monitor, we dont yet have a date on the rest of the frame pacing driver for DX9 and Multi monitor....who buys stuff on a promise, when its already taken 18+mths to get this far?


My vote is for the single GPU, either 7970 or in this case 780 HOF...

Well,I thought that the memory was common for the two GPU units on the 7990 PCB,not just what was on the 7970 two times.I can be wrong,you can be nicer.
Plus,some of you guys here act as if NVidia never has messed up.Yeah,I agree that it's damn 2013 and yeah,frame pacing issues for CF shouldn't be here.Yeah,there's no excuse.And yeah,I tend to believe their promises.Not because they're good people or something,but because their money depends on them keeping their promises.Some people are fanboys no matter what.Not targeted towards you SolMiester,but I see crap like that everywhere nowadays and I grow tired.

 

[chadashcroft22]

One other thing to note if you run only whql drivers like I do. Amd will likely be 6 months since it last released a driver. Basing this on the fact we will see new drivers with the launch of hawaii. Is 6 months acceptable to you?

And don't forget Amd also said they where going to do mtr in their drivers and that went no where. Good thing we didn't get the biggest improvement in dx11 for fps. Nvidia put it into their drivers and any game that is cpu dependent with heavy draw calls gets huge gains http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31520674.

Stuff like this has really turned me off from purchasing any more Amd cards.

 

[Z15CAM]

It seems AMD has fixed the issue of Micro Studder with their 13.8 Beta drivers but as mentioned DX9 and Multi-Display support still needs to be addressed - I would assume it will be.

nVidia still have driver issues with support for their 7XX series cards. So one is no better then the other in Driver support.

The HD 7990 should by all means from it's specifications best the GTX 780 and in average best the GTX 790 in benching which cost $300 more at the moment. I believe the HD 7990 has yet to reach it's potential and for comparing Price Vs Horse Power, the HD 7990 appears to be a bargain right now.

The 384 Bit/3Gb vRam Galaxy HOF with a VRM 8+2 phase = approx $709

A Sapphire HD 7990 with twice the Bits and vRam = approx $739

In your case, I would be considering the EVGA GTX 780 "Classified" w/ACX Cooler 03G-P4-3788-KR for approx $760 (It's also a TITAN contender) and it's PMW and Cooling solution is better then the HOF. The EVGA GTX 780 Classified reeks Quality.

If you where into 4K Displays I would get the HD 7990 and trust AMD that will get their drivers shorted out - AMD do EVENTUALLY - Kinda Wish ATi had not sold out in that department.

I'm in the same Boat but willing to wait till October. My issue is that I want 3 Port DVI-D support for cheap 3 x's 27" Korean PLS 1440p Displays running at 120Hz. HDMI only supports 60Hz and 60Fps. We are a Sick Lot.

Ain't We - LOL

 

[SolMiester]

Well,I thought that the memory was common for the two GPU units on the 7990 PCB,not just what was on the 7970 two times.I can be wrong,you can be nicer.
Plus,some of you guys here act as if NVidia never has messed up.Yeah,I agree that it's damn 2013 and yeah,frame pacing issues for CF shouldn't be here.Yeah,there's no excuse.And yeah,I tend to believe their promises.Not because they're good people or something,but because their money depends on them keeping their promises.Some people are fanboys no matter what.Not targeted towards you SolMiester,but I see crap like that everywhere nowadays and I grow tired.

Im very sorry you took my post as an insult, as it wasn't supposed to be. After over 7+ years of CF & SLI, i thought it was common knowledge, the memory is halved, with each side mirroring the other so to speak....
Not sure why you bring up NV as if to justify AMD, thats just silly, and we are talking about a series thats over 18months old FCS....AMD released the 7990 knowing their drivers for CF were naff....Thats false advertising in my book especially when they market it as the fastest card in the world.....the 7990 is 6 mths old and still only viable if you use one monitor and no DX9 games...come on mate...i cant believe people are voting for it...

 

[Bateluer]

What does HOF stand for? Are they naming high end GPUs after Icewind Dale's expansion?

 

[RussianSensation]

The former part of your post quite favored 7990; however, looking at the chart - unless I'm reading it wrong - the only 2 games that I would play out of the entire list are COH2 & Total War, and both seem to be favored by 780 over 7990. To me your post strengthens the push for 780 in my particular case.

Sorry, I should have clarified more. If you look at the scores a single 780 achieves in COH2 and Rome TW2, it's not going to be enough at all to play those games on 2x1200P monitor smoothly with everything maxed out. On the other hand, the other games can be played easily on a GTX760 overclocked. For that reason it's very difficult to recommend you a solution. However, if you plan to SLI down the line, going with GTX780 is more preferable and it seems you have the budget for it. I would also consider getting EVGA Classified since this way you can SLI more easily than HOF due to smaller size. The Classy also has software voltage up to 1.35V I believe. :thumbsup:

 

[tolis626]

Im very sorry you took my post as an insult, as it wasn't supposed to be. After over 7+ years of CF & SLI, i thought it was common knowledge, the memory is halved, with each side mirroring the other so to speak....
Not sure why you bring up NV as if to justify AMD, thats just silly, and we are talking about a series thats over 18months old FCS....AMD released the 7990 knowing their drivers for CF were naff....Thats false advertising in my book especially when they market it as the fastest card in the world.....the 7990 is 6 mths old and still only viable if you use one monitor and no DX9 games...come on mate...i cant believe people are voting for it...

I'm not making excuses.I already said it's unacceptable that it's taking them so long,on top of it not being ok since day 1.I just meant we can't simply act as if AMD is the only one to make such mistakes.NVidia does too,and from my early years with PCs (When I was like 10 years old or something),I think I remember them cheating benchmarks to make their products look good.Whether we like it or not,fuckups are part of the process for every company out there.A few years from now,it may be AMD remaking their mistakes,or NVidia making mistakes they shouldn't etc.Hell,even Intel kinda disappointed with Haswell (At least overclockers,I don't really care).
Oh,and I just suggested the 7990 for luci5r's particular case.I wouldn't ever buy a 7990 or a Titan.I think they are too much money for stuff that's gonna get dated too soon to have any value.Cheaper GPUs get dated too,but it's easier to shell out 400-600$ every year or two that to spend another 1000+$.That is,unless such a GPU drops its price considerably,like the 7990 did.Maybe the 780 is better right now,I dunno...
Oh,and regarding the RAM stuff with CF and SLI,I knew that in a dual-gpu setup the vRAM got split (eg 3gb for each 7970 in CF).I just thought that this didn't apply to single-pcb dual-GPUs.My bad!

PS : I wasn't offended in any way,I just don't like this whole thing.

 

[blackened23]

Sorry, I should have clarified more. If you look at the scores a single 780 achieves in COH2 and Rome TW2, it's not going to be enough at all to play those games on 2x1200P monitor smoothly with everything maxed out. On the other hand, the other games can be played easily on a GTX760 overclocked. For that reason it's very difficult to recommend you a solution. However, if you plan to SLI down the line, going with GTX780 is more preferable and it seems you have the budget for it. I would also consider getting EVGA Classified since this way you can SLI more easily than HOF due to smaller size. The Classy also has software voltage up to 1.35V I believe. :thumbsup:

Technically speaking you can't 2x spanned games on two monitors in surround anyway. One monitor will display the game and the 2nd monitor will be an accessory display for Windows. You can't surround span on a second monitor, you need 3 screens to span a 3d application in surround. Two won't work, the second is merely (as said) something to stare at windows, twitch, email, or whatever.

Besides which, the entire concept of "maxing out" a game is completely stupid these days. When some games can't be "maxed out" for a steady 60 fps on a Titan @ 1080p, you know the concept is idiotic and has been for a long time. You can easily make these games run fine by lowering 2-3 settings. But if spending 1200-2000$ in GPUs (2x 760s won't cut it for everything) for the false self-pride of "maxing games out" is a thing, more power to the folks that do that. Not my thing, not anymore, I got caught up in it briefly though.

Basically, what i'm saying is, a single 780 is a fine choice. There is no need for 760x2. There is also no need to worry about maxing games out - the concept is stupid, as mentioned. I don't know what happened in the past few years but when a single 1000$ GPU can't "max" games out for a smooth 60 fps, the entire thing is ridiculous. Many years ago a single V2 or Riva TNT2 was all that was needed to get 200 fps + in the most demanding games possible. Total cost? 200$, that's it, IIRC. Somewhere along the way within the past 5 years, the demands for "maxing" games out became so ridiculously idiotic that only the most dedicated enthusiasts would bother. Especially when lowering 2-3 settings can double or triple the framerate in many games with no hit in terms of IQ.

 

[Z15CAM]

Riva TNT2

The Ati Rage 128 put that card to same. Look at all the driver innovations it took back then to make it work.

Read my previous post.

For sheer Horse Power the Radeon HD 7990 has it all - Eventually Drivers will control it - Even if it takes 2 years to do it.

 

[blackened23]

The Ati Rage 128 put that card to same.

Read my previous post.

That wasn't the point of my post at all. The salient point was that "maxing out" games has, over the past 5 years, become an exercise in ludicrousness. You can't even max games out on a 1000$ GPU at 1080p with a fluid 60 fps. That is idiotic, so it's not even worth bothering these days since lowering 2-3 settings has NO EFFECT on image quality in most games - but doubles the framerate in many cases.

Anyway, back to your statement. The Rage 128 was a fine card but I really thought the TNT2 was the card to get back then. Didn't it outperform the Rage 128 Pro? On that note, the only reason I mentioned it was back in those days, you could simply plop a 150-200$ GPU in the system and every game would run at insane framerates at maximum settings. That is sadly no longer the case even with a 1000$ GPU.

 

[Z15CAM]

I believe Driver support has lot to do with this thread.

You have to give credit to AMD as they still UpDate Drivers for the Radeon HD 2600XT AGP which is HDMI capable for a Single Core processor such as a nForceN400 AMD Barton MB. The MB Bios may not agree but you can edit the MB Firmware Bios to accept an additional IRQ for HDMI Sound on the AGP Slot.

If I recall, the TNT2 was limited to 24 Bit and could not do 32 Bit Color. I believe the 1st card to do 32 Bit was the Matrix Marvel.

I say for the OP to get a reference HD 7990 (Sapphire) Card and be patient for drivers that will eventually wake it to its Full Potential.

Either that, if his patience can't hold out, buy the EVGA GTX 780 "Classified" w/ACX.

We are discussing the Best of the Best and for us Geeks, we undoubtedly have opinions.

I'm not much of a Gamer but a Programmer and System Builder.

 

[3DVagabond]

After your 2nd post - I started to dig into this a little bit. I might not be using the right terms but I'm not getting much on Google. I do find it hard to believe that a $650 card can be bios-flashed to function like a $3,000 card, but if what you're saying is something that can be done, I'm actually interested.

Do you have any links or can you point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

I don't know whether or not it can be. Physically they are the same card right down to the output connections. You'd have to research to see whether or not it's possible. It should be. It's been possible in the past.

I'll see if I can google anything.

 

[luci5r]

Time for the OP to chime in, LOL.

... and in average best the GTX 790 in benching which cost $300 more at the moment ...

.... In your case, I would be considering the EVGA GTX 780 "Classified" w/ACX Cooler 03G-P4-3788-KR for approx $760 (It's also a TITAN contender) and it's PMW and Cooling solution is better then the HOF. The EVGA GTX 780 Classified reeks Quality.

Where do you see a GTX 790?? I don't see one anywhere. I didn't think they were out yet. From what I last saw - they were planning to launch those just around 99xx launch. Did they already release somewhere?

Regarding the EVGA Classified w/ ACX ... I've gone through these on Newegg and all of them have lower clocks then Galaxy's HOF. I've also discussed this with some other vet's in other forums and they all seemed to recommend HOF over Classified. What's the benefit of Classified over HOF? Do other people here agree with this?

... and we are talking about a series thats over 18months old FCS....AMD released the 7990 knowing their drivers for CF were naff....Thats false advertising in my book especially when they market it as the fastest card in the world.....the 7990 is 6 mths old and still only viable if you use one monitor and no DX9 games...come on mate...i cant believe people are voting for it...

I have to say, I do agree with this. These are exact sentiments that I have been reading & hearing ever since I started my research to decide between GTX & Radeon's. I don't believe that you should put out a $700 product (Initially close to $1000) if consumers are still to wait for drivers to make it work with "everything" while there is competition that has the same things working for a while now.

I know eventually drivers will come out that support the pending issues; but the delay & overdue speaks a little about the brand & it's capabilities. I'm no nVidia Fanboy or an AMD Hater. I currently have 2 * 5870 CF (Which have given me nothing but problems & seriously regret the decision now), but despite, I have been doing all this research just to decide the best product for my investment best suited to my needs - not whether nVidia is better then AMD or vice versa.

What does HOF stand for? Are they naming high end GPUs after Icewind Dale's expansion?

"Hall Of Fame" Edition. Galaxy does this for several products; select chips. They are known for it.

Sorry, I should have clarified more. If you look at the scores a single 780 achieves in COH2 and Rome TW2, it's not going to be enough at all to play those games on 2x1200P monitor smoothly with everything maxed out. On the other hand, the other games can be played easily on a GTX760 overclocked. For that reason it's very difficult to recommend you a solution. However, if you plan to SLI down the line, going with GTX780 is more preferable and it seems you have the budget for it. I would also consider getting EVGA Classified since this way you can SLI more easily than HOF due to smaller size. The Classy also has software voltage up to 1.35V I believe. :thumbsup:

I think I should have clarified - I don't necessarily want to play the actual game on both Monitors; more then likely - I'll be playing the game on a single monitor and keeping some other stuff (email, rendering, etc.) running on the second monitor so I can keep an eyeball on it. So I'm not necessarily looking spanning a single application (game or otherwise) on 2 monitors; but spanning multiple applications divided on two monitors.

Having said that, RTS games are talking about dual-monitor support in future -- not exactly 'Gaming' across two screens; but providing support-tools (like Maps, Inventory, Readouts, etc.) running on one monitor while actual Gaming on the other. That's on the cards and I would be very happy to utilize it.

Yes, I do plan to SLI down the road. You're the 2nd person mentioning EVGA Classified over HOF. Any reason?

I don't know whether or not it can be. Physically they are the same card right down to the output connections. You'd have to research to see whether or not it's possible. It should be. It's been possible in the past.

I'll see if I can google anything.

Yeah, I'm stumped. I have scoured Google since yesterday and I see absolutely no mention - no evidence - no discussion - not an ounce of content supporting this. You're the first person and the only person I have seen so far mentioning this. At one point - Google actually brought me back to this thread.

I have to say - if this is actually possible - I'm still VERY interested. If you could spare a moment and look this up, I would greatly appreciate it. This is the one Point that could truly upset 780's choice.

---

So at this point, aside from 3DVagabond turning up with something that supports the theory of flashing FirePro S10000 bios on an HD7990 effectively giving me some FirePro advantages on the card, I'm quite decided on the GTX 780. I might even be making the purchase by end of day today.

The only one issue that's come up today is: I really hadn't considered any other GTX 780 other then Galaxy's HOF as I was under the impression & strongly recommended that it's the BEST 780 I can get for my money. A few people have brought up the EVGA Classified w/ ACX Cooler. There's a few variations on Newegg and I've looked them all up - and none of them have higher clocks then HOF.

IS everybody here in favor of Classified over HOF? Is there a very good reason I should consider Classified over HOF.

Thanks guys! As someone else pointed -- this truly is a Consumer Power in action.

 

[wand3r3r]

Evga has probably the best warranty period.
MSI is close.

Then there's the detail that EVGA is apparently at the least allowing you to use modded bioses according to hwc.

Galaxy seems to be rising though.

 

[tolis626]

The only one issue that's come up today is: I really hadn't considered any other GTX 780 other then Galaxy's HOF as I was under the impression & strongly recommended that it's the BEST 780 I can get for my money. A few people have brought up the EVGA Classified w/ ACX Cooler. There's a few variations on Newegg and I've looked them all up - and none of them have higher clocks then HOF.

IS everybody here in favor of Classified over HOF? Is there a very good reason I should consider Classified over HOF.

Thanks guys! As someone else pointed -- this truly is a Consumer Power in action.

To be honest,I have no idea what the differences are between the two and I don't know which is better,but stock clocks aren't a good indicative of how good a particular GPU is (Granted we're talking about the same GPU model,the 780 in this case).Plus,if you believe you're missing on power,overclocking is as easy as it gets these days.I suspect it's mostly about the quality of the cooler.I don't know about Galaxy,but I think EVGA is among the best NVidia manufacturers.The only two NVidia GPUs that have entered my house were from EVGA and never disappointed with their quality.

 

[Zanovar]

Evga has probably the best warranty period.
MSI is close.

Then there's the detail that EVGA is apparently at the least allowing you to use modded bioses according to hwc.

Galaxy seems to be rising though.

All depends on location*winks*

 

[luci5r]

Evga has probably the best warranty period.
MSI is close.

Then there's the detail that EVGA is apparently at the least allowing you to use modded bioses according to hwc.

Galaxy seems to be rising though.

To be honest,I have no idea what the differences are between the two and I don't know which is better,but stock clocks aren't a good indicative of how good a particular GPU is (Granted we're talking about the same GPU model,the 780 in this case).Plus,if you believe you're missing on power,overclocking is as easy as it gets these days.I suspect it's mostly about the quality of the cooler.I don't know about Galaxy,but I think EVGA is among the best NVidia manufacturers.The only two NVidia GPUs that have entered my house were from EVGA and never disappointed with their quality.

Well, my question or choice wasn't really pertaining to the Brand; I was more concerned with the actual specifications & features of the card. I thought maybe the Classified was offering something more/better.

As far as brand is concerned, I have no problems with Galaxy. They have been doing Video Cards & quality ones for quite some time now. EVGA is undoubtedly a top premium brand, but like I said - I wasn't really quite going for the Brand, but more so for the Card. The HOF seems to be quite impressive in all aspects, so I should be pretty good with it.

I'm just waiting to see if 3DVagabond can return in with something concrete on the 7990 --> BIOS Flash --> S10000 theory. Otherwise HOF it is.

Thanks!

 

[3DVagabond]

Sorry, I can't find anything about flashing the 7990 to S10000. They're physically the same card. They even use the same full coverage waterblocks, so it should be possible, but I can't find anything for certain.

 

[luci5r]

Sorry, I can't find anything about flashing the 7990 to S10000. They're physically the same card. They even use the same full coverage waterblocks, so it should be possible, but I can't find anything for certain.

Thanks for taking the time to look this up - I do appreciate it.

That being the case; 780 HOF is my choice at the moment. I don't really see any reason to go with 7990 or Classified.

The only one thing that's been thrown into this mix:

I have all the components for my build sitting nice & pretty in their original retail boxes, all except the Xeon's. Last week I spoke to a retailer who told me units had started to trickle in & he should have the whole lot by the 10th. Unfortunately it appears only the top tier - 2690/95/97 V2's are being shipped to retailers right now. Furthermore, it's looking like the mid-tier chips, including the Xeon E5-2640 V2, which is what I'm putting in my build, may not be hitting retailers till the end of the month (Sep 30th).

This puts a big kabash on my plans to start the build next week - which was the whole reason I was going to pull the trigger on the GPU latest by this weekend. I was expecting the last remaining components - the Xeon's - in my hands next week.

If I have to wait til the end of the month, possibly even first week October to get my Xeon's, I might as well wait on the GPU because that I can order at Newegg & they deliver next day (I live in California - 40 minutes from Newegg's warehouse).

Let me clarify one point - this is not to see if I want to go for 9970 or AMD for that matter over GTX - but rather to see if there is confirmed/official news & date of the price cuts on the 780 (or even Titan for that matter), and possibly any concrete news on the GTX 790 release.

I would not be holding up my entire build for the GPU, as I've stated earlier; but as it happens, my build is being inevitably held up because of the CPU, witch leaves me choice-less.

Unless something changes with the E5-2640 V2 availability, at which point I'll definitely pull the trigger on the 780 HOF, I've decided to wait at least until the Xeon's are available - Wichita could very well bring me into the 99xx/price-cut timeframe.

What a buzz kill. But it might work on my favor.

Thanks guys. Contributions here have been priceless - from all parties.

 

[x3sphere]

One other thing to note if you run only whql drivers like I do. Amd will likely be 6 months since it last released a driver. Basing this on the fact we will see new drivers with the launch of hawaii. Is 6 months acceptable to you?

And don't forget Amd also said they where going to do mtr in their drivers and that went no where. Good thing we didn't get the biggest improvement in dx11 for fps. Nvidia put it into their drivers and any game that is cpu dependent with heavy draw calls gets huge gains http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31520674.

Stuff like this has really turned me off from purchasing any more Amd cards.

Why do you only run whql drivers? It's not like they are any less buggy in my experience.

 

[RussianSensation]

Technically speaking you can't 2x spanned games on two monitors in surround anyway. One monitor will display the game and the 2nd monitor will be an accessory display for Windows. You can't surround span on a second monitor, you need 3 screens to span a 3d application in surround. Two won't work, the second is merely (as said) something to stare at windows, twitch, email, or whatever.

Besides which, the entire concept of "maxing out" a game is completely stupid these days. When some games can't be "maxed out" for a steady 60 fps on a Titan @ 1080p, you know the concept is idiotic and has been for a long time. You double or triple the framerate in many games with no hit in terms of IQ.

I agree with everything you are saying. I still find it very difficult to make a recommendation here. GTX760 should play all the games the OP listed at blistering frame rates on 1 such monitor without breaking the sweat, except for COH2 and TWR2.

For COH2, 780 provides a very poor price/performance ratio over 7970GE. Correct me if I am wrong but SLI/CF doesn't even work in this game and isn't intended to ever.

For TWR2 the 780 is faster indeed but is that performance worth $410 more over 1Ghz 7970? 1Ghz 7970 is $280 and HOF 780 is $690!

This is why I said to me a $250 GTX760 or a $280 1Ghz 7970 + upgrade to 20nm later makes a lot more sense. In OP's list the only games we gotta worry about are COH2 and TWR2 since the other ones are not demanding:

1) COH2 - 780 is barely faster than 7970GE, depends on the review even slower...
2) TWR2 - runs like a pig on everything which means you'll be turning down settings anyway.

However, if the OP has the budget up to $700, then sure the 780 is the best GPU to start with. :thumbsup:

 

[luci5r]

Question: this is something that just occurred to me. At some point down the road I do plan to get a 2nd 780 & SLI them.

Will I need the the EXACT same brand I have in place? Or can I get a different brand of the same model GPU? In other words, will I need to get another Galaxy 780 HOF or can I get, for example, an EVGA 780?

The reason I ask is, Galaxy's HOF may not always be available; in fact, when getting the 2nd card & SLI'ing, I'm open to options of a used card (someone upgrading their 780) or even eBay for cost saving. HOF is not going to be the most freely available of all 780's.

If I can mix two brands of the same GPU, then it's not a problem. But if I can't, then I need to consider that.

Thanks.

 

[seitur]

Wait for 9970.

 

[luci5r]

Wait for 9970.

-1

 

[Elfear]

-1

If the 9970 is being launched two weeks after your Xeons become available anyway, why not wait to see what kind of performance it brings? Might be able to pick up a card on par with a 780 or Titan for $500-550.