Sandforce 22xx drives - issues fixed yet?

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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Have the issues with these been sorted out yet?

I would really love to get the ocz vertex 3/forge3 120gt or another sandforce 22xx series drive, but don't really want to deal with all of the horror stories i've been hearing.

Has anyone gotten these drives to work in AHCI mode on the asus P8p67 pro?
 

Coup27

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2010
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Here is the current official OCZ statement:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/f...re-we-are-with-Vertex3-Agility3-Solid3-drives

Officially these issues are on a small percentage of drives. It's difficult to say otherwise without sales / problem figures but judging by how active their forums are with this problem and how widespread their attempted testing has become I would say it is quite a big problem.

I would personally stick with more of a reliable platform. 1st gen SF had issues and now 2nd.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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Here is the current official OCZ statement:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/f...re-we-are-with-Vertex3-Agility3-Solid3-drives

Officially these issues are on a small percentage of drives. It's difficult to say otherwise without sales / problem figures but judging by how active their forums are with this problem and how widespread their attempted testing has become I would say it is quite a big problem.

I would personally stick with more of a reliable platform. 1st gen SF had issues and now 2nd.

Bummer. I don't really want to risk it, the benches of the sandforce 2000 look amazing but if I have to deal with nonstop bsod's screw it.
 

Coup27

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2010
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I wouldn't risk it, although I wouldn't buy an OCZ drive either.

I agree the specs are impressive, but outside of benchmarks I really doubt you would be able to tell the difference between another high performance SSD.

That leaves the M4, the 510, or the new Samsung 830. The 830 is shipping to OEMS now not sure how long till the channel release.

If I were you and I wanted 6Gbps I'd go for a 510. My workload however is rarely large sequential files so an X25-M G2 works fine for me.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
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Here is the current official OCZ statement:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/f...re-we-are-with-Vertex3-Agility3-Solid3-drives

Officially these issues are on a small percentage of drives.
Hmmm... Somehow that just doesn't pass the smell test.

That leaves the M4, the 510, or the new Samsung 830. The 830 is shipping to OEMS now not sure how long till the channel release.

If I were you and I wanted 6Gbps I'd go for a 510. My workload however is rarely large sequential files so an X25-M G2 works fine for me.
The PM830 is shipping to OEMs, but not the consumer 830.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4640/meet-the-6gbps-samsung-ssd-830-the-consumer-pm830

The press releases have the 830 on the shelves in October, and Anand mentioned they don't want to release the specs because they're still fiddling with the firmwares. If that's really the case, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't show up locally here until November.

Anyways, while cost is an issue, I'm more interested in its power specs. Since I'd be using it in a laptop, I'm kinda inclined at this point to go with another Kingston V+100 even though it's much slower. Plus, although 64 GB is a bit small for me, I don't really need 128 GB either. 96 GB is the sweet spot for me.
 

Coup27

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2010
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Hmmm... Somehow that just doesn't pass the smell test.
I keep an eye on the OCZ forum, I find it quite entertaining. I've been following this BSOD bug for the last few months and they've blamed everything from Intel CMOS curruption, OEM sata cables, SATA timings, users not running WEI (lol), users not clearing CMOS, overclocks, not secure erasing before reinstalling OS, AHCI drivers. They've had 3 firmware fixes already which haven't fully solved the problem along with multiple toolboxes and firmware update methods, none of which are compatible with other updates. shambles tbh.

What seems to be totally omitted over there is the other vendors deal with the same user end hardware as SF do and their drives don't do this.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,163
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I keep an eye on the OCZ forum, I find it quite entertaining. I've been following this BSOD bug for the last few months and they've blamed everything from Intel CMOS curruption, OEM sata cables, SATA timings, users not running WEI (lol), users not clearing CMOS, overclocks, not secure erasing before reinstalling OS, AHCI drivers. They've had 3 firmware fixes already which haven't fully solved the problem along with multiple toolboxes and firmware update methods, none of which are compatible with other updates. shambles tbh.

What seems to be totally omitted over there is the other vendors deal with the same user end hardware as SF do and their drives don't do this.

I thought the Corsair SF drives were having the same issues??
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
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I've never had issues with the Agility 2... I've had it over a year now. I *think* the SF1200 drives are ok. I don't know about the 3rd gen.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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I've never had issues with the Agility 2... I've had it over a year now. I *think* the SF1200 drives are ok. I don't know about the 3rd gen.

Yeah, i'm using a SF1200 ssd now, was interested in the 2200 series because of the huge increase in performance.

I see lots of issues with the OCZ's, might dig some more on other brands. I haven't heard many complaints about the corsair force GT3. (2200 based)
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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Thats good news, you have the asus board right? Do you use it on the intel or the marvell controller?

I think i'll give the corsair a shot. Hell it might be a smidge slower than the OCZ but as long as its stable, all will be well.
 

grkM3

Golden Member
Jul 29, 2011
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I run it on the intel chip and ran it on my p67pro and p67 mive.

What are the specs of the ocz?maybe they are pushing it and having issues.I get 555 mb/sec and that's exactly what they rated the drive.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
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If memory serves....most 2281 SSD's use asynchronous or synchronous NAND, with synchronous being faster on non compressible data. The Force GT uses synchronus NAND, while the OCZ vertex 3 MIPS uses a hybrid that "toggles" between sync and async depending on the operation...which makes it slightly faster. IIRC sync NAND is faster for most stuff, toggle NAND is faster than both sync and async.

Anyway, i'll check the Force GT out.......i've always liked corsair products anyway.
 

grkM3

Golden Member
Jul 29, 2011
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I think you will like the GT drive.

Here is mine benched

555lt.jpg
 

groberts101

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
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I keep an eye on the OCZ forum, I find it quite entertaining. I've been following this BSOD bug for the last few months and they've blamed everything from Intel CMOS curruption, OEM sata cables, SATA timings, users not running WEI (lol), users not clearing CMOS, overclocks, not secure erasing before reinstalling OS, AHCI drivers. They've had 3 firmware fixes already which haven't fully solved the problem along with multiple toolboxes and firmware update methods, none of which are compatible with other updates. shambles tbh.

What seems to be totally omitted over there is the other vendors deal with the same user end hardware as SF do and their drives don't do this.


all those fixes and workarounds have been "entertained" simply because all the one's listed above are if fact helping many to overcome the issues.

There ARE platform related issues(and many will exhibit similar even without an SSD installed. You should use google to see what I'm sayin' here.

And the "other brands" using the SF2281 are NOT having these issues?.. again with the "googling to learn". Corsair.. Patriot.. OWC.. OCZ.. you name it.. they have issues as well. The very fact that new OROM's and drivers are released on a near weekly basis should be a big clue to the issues they are still battling right now.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
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I think what Coup27 was suggesting is that most non-SF chipsets don't appear to be quite as problematic.
 

greenhawk

Platinum Member
Feb 23, 2011
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non-SF chipsets don't appear to be quite as problematic.

down side to that is they are not used as much thanks to the SandForce Sata 2 chips being soo good, everyone just went with them for sata 3.
 

Coup27

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2010
2,140
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all those fixes and workarounds have been "entertained" simply because all the one's listed above are if fact helping many to overcome the issues.

There ARE platform related issues(and many will exhibit similar even without an SSD installed. You should use google to see what I'm sayin' here.

And the "other brands" using the SF2281 are NOT having these issues?.. again with the "googling to learn". Corsair.. Patriot.. OWC.. OCZ.. you name it.. they have issues as well. The very fact that new OROM's and drivers are released on a near weekly basis should be a big clue to the issues they are still battling right now.
I think you have put words into my mouth and then built a reply around it.

I clearly said that my comments were aimed at SF based drives. I would not recommend a SF based drives because there are too many problems. OCZ was brought into this because the OP said he was interested in a Vertex.

I am not going to google to find people suffering form the issues I mentioned above who have never installed an SSD in their system. However what I will say, and I am sure many people agree with me, is that in all the years I have been around PC's which must reach into 100's of different machines when you factor work computers in as well, I have never had these type of stability issues with HDD only machines.

There is a major difference of mentality when Intel rectify their faults and when SF/OCZ do theirs. You can point to the scale of resources between the two setups if you want, but the fact is with Intel you get a single ISO which works for all their drives regardless of the current firmware on them. You update, its fixed, end of. With OCZ, if you wish to enter their world of support, you will be lead to believe that issue is far more widespread than their product and several factors are to blame. Sorry but I don't buy it. Intel and Samsung have clearly shown that their products are compatible and stable (for an SSD) so it can be done.
 

groberts101

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
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not trying to debate/argue about it and was simply responding to your many assumptions made in the post quoted above(regardless of the posted topic. And I too have been studying SF based drives even prior to introduction almost 1 1/2 years ago and from 2nd day of release during ownership.

I have 6 Vertex 2's in R0 and 1 Vertex 3 on this system alone along a few other friends and family who run them problem free as well. So, yes.. running a Sandforce can be done if certain limitations are factored in. IMHO, those consistently sleeping the first gen SF drives are just sitting on ticking timebomb's as it can take many month's for something to go wrong and knock you on your ass if no backups are made(which still amazes me how few actually backup. I'm absolutely positive that the elimination of sleep transitions(ESPECIALLY S3 since it cuts power to the drive) from all the SF drives I have installed to date?.. is the key to long-term stability.

And despite the fact that I do actually like Intel?.. they are not flawless either as there are still quite a few posts around the net of lost drives(I killed 1 myself during testing and a friend lost 1 as well) and even this new platform has seen stuttering/freezing issues with those controllers. Sandforce just has so many other interaction issues it's not even funny and creates far more stress(in the matter of the newer 6G drives) on other hardware due to pushing the sata channels speed to near maximum capability.

Either way you look at it.. I was not trying to sell anything here or do any type of damage control since I don't own stock or have any vested interest in the company.. I just test their drives and report what I see as weakness or fault.

I will say again however.. when a drive which is causing issues on a particular system and assumed to be completely defective is simply swapped to another similarly equipped system and regains complete stability?.. might want to look a bit deeper at the possible background causes involved. Just my personal opinion based on beta-testing results, some inside info, and firsthand witness of problem resolutions from the various SSD mfgrs forums who use this new controller. From there.. a quick search of "P67 crashes and freezes" will lead you to all major mobo mfgrs forums to shed the rest of the light on a few dirty little sectrets that most don't usually get a glimpse of before lumping SF related issues into one big messy "anti-OCZ" campaign.

So, in a nutshell after all that?.. you will surely see OCZ using/recommending whatever means that has proven effective for even a handful of users, simply because they are trying to help troubleshoot many differnet issues here all at once to better pinpoint where the majority of issues may lie. That's one of the major differences between OCZ and the others, IMHO. They typically go out on a limb further than any other mfgr(the transparency of the forum itself is a testament to that fact) and try and help troubleshoot system stability issues without just pointing you to the mobo mfgr or MS technet to get it sorted. And that has without a doubt.. enabled many others to hang on those "problem resolution coattails" and benefit from the firmware workarounds and fixes created and hatched from such a pro-active forum environment.
 

infini

Member
Apr 9, 2002
186
0
0
The Vertex 2 and Agility 2 which are based on the SF-1200 have the same issues ase the ones based on Sandforce22xx?
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
not trying to debate/argue about it and was simply responding to your many assumptions made in the post quoted above(regardless of the posted topic. And I too have been studying SF based drives even prior to introduction almost 1 1/2 years ago and from 2nd day of release during ownership.

I have 6 Vertex 2's in R0 and 1 Vertex 3 on this system alone along a few other friends and family who run them problem free as well. So, yes.. running a Sandforce can be done if certain limitations are factored in. IMHO, those consistently sleeping the first gen SF drives are just sitting on ticking timebomb's as it can take many month's for something to go wrong and knock you on your ass if no backups are made(which still amazes me how few actually backup. I'm absolutely positive that the elimination of sleep transitions(ESPECIALLY S3 since it cuts power to the drive) from all the SF drives I have installed to date?.. is the key to long-term stability.

And despite the fact that I do actually like Intel?.. they are not flawless either as there are still quite a few posts around the net of lost drives(I killed 1 myself during testing and a friend lost 1 as well) and even this new platform has seen stuttering/freezing issues with those controllers. Sandforce just has so many other interaction issues it's not even funny and creates far more stress(in the matter of the newer 6G drives) on other hardware due to pushing the sata channels speed to near maximum capability.

Either way you look at it.. I was not trying to sell anything here or do any type of damage control since I don't own stock or have any vested interest in the company.. I just test their drives and report what I see as weakness or fault.

I will say again however.. when a drive which is causing issues on a particular system and assumed to be completely defective is simply swapped to another similarly equipped system and regains complete stability?.. might want to look a bit deeper at the possible background causes involved. Just my personal opinion based on beta-testing results, some inside info, and firsthand witness of problem resolutions from the various SSD mfgrs forums who use this new controller. From there.. a quick search of "P67 crashes and freezes" will lead you to all major mobo mfgrs forums to shed the rest of the light on a few dirty little sectrets that most don't usually get a glimpse of before lumping SF related issues into one big messy "anti-OCZ" campaign.

So, in a nutshell after all that?.. you will surely see OCZ using/recommending whatever means that has proven effective for even a handful of users, simply because they are trying to help troubleshoot many differnet issues here all at once to better pinpoint where the majority of issues may lie. That's one of the major differences between OCZ and the others, IMHO. They typically go out on a limb further than any other mfgr(the transparency of the forum itself is a testament to that fact) and try and help troubleshoot system stability issues without just pointing you to the mobo mfgr or MS technet to get it sorted. And that has without a doubt.. enabled many others to hang on those "problem resolution coattails" and benefit from the firmware workarounds and fixes created and hatched from such a pro-active forum environment.

Personally I can't help but think the SATA III spec was rushed, as is always the case with specs like these, but more critical was the fact that so little time passed between the release of the spec and the availability of drives that could actually saturate the very limits of the spec.

If you look at specs like USB, ATA-133, SATA I, and so on, the upper-limits of the spec were defined from day one but there were no devices available to actually test that corner case.

So early implementations of those specs could have some "incompatibility" issues that simply never materialized into a concern at the consumer level because our spindle-drives at the time had no chance of taking the system to its limits.

But SATA III came out and quite literally right on its heels were SSD's drives pushing it to the absolute limit.

Now we have all these issues. I don't think it is a coincidence. I think once the SATA III chipset designers and manufacturers get a few more product revs under their belts, a few more learning cycles and real-world feedback, they will have the capability of designing robust and fully-capable systems, from the chipset to the mobo trace layout to the cables themselves, and these sorts of random oddities experienced with drives that push right to the edge of the spec will disappear.