San Francisco adding to housing glut on purpose

[dmcowen674]

Doesn't Cali have enough overpriced and empty houses?


4-23-2011

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110422/ap_on_re_us/us_treasure_island

San Francisco city planners have approved a $1.5 billion neighborhood to be built on Treasure Island, located in San Francisco Bay between the city and Oakland.

The plan includes 8,000 residential units and a 450-foot high-rise on the island.

Critics say the man-made island would not fare well in an earthquake and that the project would increase traffic on the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge.


Supporters say developing the 400 acres in the middle of San Francisco Bay is a unique opportunity.


=======================================
Sounds like another unique opportunity for failure

 

[Infohawk]

It's not too late to correct the spelling in your title to San Francisco.

San Francisco proper is doing fine in terms of real estate. Despite what a lot of red-state people think, there are plenty of high end jobs to support yuppies and wealthy who want to live in a city with character.

The Treasure Island development sounds like a bad idea. I don't see how the bridge can sustain that traffic.

 

[wuliheron]

In real estate there are only 3 rules:

Location, location, location.

San Francisco has some of the most expensive real estate in the world despite all the steep hills. Think New York with much less land area and earthquakes and you get the idea. The difference between real estate costs in Oakland and San Fan is so great that they are considering filling in part of the bay just as the early Samoans did when they established Mexico city and just as the Japanese did when Tokyo grew to 1/3 to 1/2 their population.

The mass transit problems are something the locals will have to work out for themselves, but at a guess I'd say this is the future of the area and even another major earthquake can't stop this kind of expansion any time in the foreseeable future. The simple truth is 90% of the world's population lives on the cost because that is where the jobs are and that is where they will continue to grow. We can complain all we want about such things and about the dangers involved, but the reality is people will go where the money is and only avoid those places when the dangers are all too apparent.

 

[Throckmorton]

Hills increase value. But earthquakes??

 

[glenn1]

It's not too late to correct the spelling in your title to San Francisco.

San Francisco proper is doing fine in terms of real estate. Despite what a lot of red-state people think, there are plenty of high end jobs to support yuppies and wealthy who want to live in a city with character.

The Treasure Island development sounds like a bad idea. I don't see how the bridge can sustain that traffic.

The city will be doing even better once they rename the Tenderloin and the property values there shoot up...

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/03/wheres-beef-peta-wants-san-francisco-rename-tenderloin


Honestly though, yuppies or not I find it very hard to say that with the homes in most areas being $400-500/square foot and up, that developing Treasure Island would certainly help bring more supply on line helping prices down to something more reasonable.

http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/California/San_Francisco-heat_map/

 

[wuliheron]

Hills increase value. But earthquakes??

Again, its location, location, location. Just any hill won't increase the value and just any earthquake won't increase the value. You need to have one of the few earthquake proof buildings in an area prone to earthquakes. Then the value goes up with each successive earthquake and is only limited by how much money people can make in the area. In downtown Tokyo some places sold for a million dollars per square foot.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I agree with Glenn. The San Francisco Bay Area has a very high population density and housing shortages with many people driving over an hour to get to work. Apartments and housing in general are expensive. An additional 8000 units would only be a drop in the bucket, but it can't hurt. How they'll deal with transportation issues, I have no idea.

Here's a link to the Wikipedia entry for Treasure Island in case anyone is interested. It's a man-made island, which really doesn't sound like a particularly attractive place to live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Island_%28California)

 

[wuliheron]

I agree with Glenn. The San Francisco Bay Area has a very high population density and housing shortages with many people driving over an hour to get to work. Apartments and housing in general are expensive. An additional 8000 units would only be a drop in the bucket, but it can't hurt. How they'll deal with transportation issues, I have no idea.

Here's a link to the Wikipedia entry for Treasure Island in case anyone is interested. It's a man-made island, which really doesn't sound like a particularly attractive place to live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Island_%28California)

You'd be surprised at how attractive such places can be. Isolated in the middle of the bay, flat as a pancake, all new architecture instead of a random mish-mash. Ideal for those who don't really find the city life attractive, but also don't like long commutes. The real issue is whether it is more advantageous to support such money making ventures, or support better public transportation. No doubt they could support both, but in the US public transportation has often taken a back seat to making money.

 

[JSt0rm]

This seems like a good experiment in downgrading the car in the area. Ferry to sanfran and all your needs are in a 10 minute walk of home? Yes please.

 

[Steeplerot]

We have a big housing crisis here, of course a part of it is our geography of being peninsular granted we build up instead of out. Main problem is greedy developers rezoning working class neighborhoods for live work loft real estate scams raising rents on the actual residents instead of the transient visitors who stay for a year or so then bug out to wherever they are from. (or to the 'burbs) We really need help with long term planning since Mayor Willy and his real estate deregulation (giveaway) crap. For such a upstanding member of the African American community he sure as hell drove out 1000s of folks to the east bay and banked off the real estate developers.

This is the total fail at having one political party really. You have conservatives running amok using liberal ideals to screw us for $.

And its FRISCO you dolt.

 

[K1052]

SF has a fair amount of buildable land left (Misson Bay, Hunters Point, Candlestick Park, etc...) but getting anything actually built takes forever plitically and costs twice what it does anywhere else.

 

[Steeplerot]

but getting anything actually built takes forever plitically and costs twice what it does anywhere else.

Like to back this up? I have worked and followed the zoning bureaucracy here and its no different really then NYC (which has far more hoops to jump through)

The fact that our skyline is endlessly full of new skyscrapers being built and every street has a new loft going up I would have to say this is more talk radio nonsense from haters from the midwest or something.


Just in the past 2 years our skyline is unrecognizable with new skyscrapers in this recession, so much for "liberal economic stagnancy".

Newest thing they are working on:

This will be the tallest building in the City soon overtaking the transamerica pyramid.

 

[JSt0rm]

he meant anywhere else like detroit or Alabama where you can just put your yurt up any time you please.

 

[Capt Caveman]

As someone who use to commute over the Bay Bridge every day, Treasure Island is an underutilized valuable piece of land. Dave is such a dumbass, he doesn't realize that there isn't enough housing in the SF area.

Due to the lack of housing in the SF area, I don't have an issue with it though I believe the density of 8,000 people is too much and would cause lots of congestion issues. Maybe, half that much.

 

[Infohawk]

As someone who use to commute over the Bay Bridge every day, Treasure Island is an underutilized valuable piece of land. Dave is such a dumbass, he doesn't realize that there isn't enough housing in the SF area.

Due to the lack of housing in the SF area, I don't have an issue with it though I believe the density of 8,000 people is too much and would cause lots of congestion issues. Maybe, half that much.

It looks like they're going to create a ferry terminal there. That seems like the only real viable transportation solution since it's not like they're going to improve the west span of the bridge.

And everyone seems to agree Dave is dumb. Not sure why he can't change the error in the title.

 

[AreaCode707]

This is a terrible idea. Treasure Island is fill dirt and it's sinking. It's only stayed as high as it is now because of constant (expensive) maintenance that has mostly been done by the military so far, but will become taxpayer expense if they develop it, all for developers to profit. One good earthquake and we'll all get to watch the horror on the news.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/e/a/1995/07/27/NEWS843.dtl
http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-02-21/bay-area/17282525_1_mount-diablo-rise-thrust-fault/2

Treasure Island is sinking into San Francisco Bay at a rate of 8 to 9 millimeters, or about one-third of an inch, per year.

The news doesn't perturb officials at the Treasure Island Development Authority. They say they've long known about the sinking, which they blame on the natural subsidence of mud and landfill under the artificial island.

 

[Infohawk]

This is a terrible idea. Treasure Island is fill dirt and it's sinking. It's only stayed as high as it is now because of constant (expensive) maintenance that has mostly been done by the military so far, but will become taxpayer expense if they develop it, all for developers to profit. One good earthquake and we'll all get to watch the horror on the news.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/e/a/1995/07/27/NEWS843.dtl
http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-02-21/bay-area/17282525_1_mount-diablo-rise-thrust-fault/2

Wow that's pretty lame. Turn it into a park and let it sink.

 

[AreaCode707]

Most recent article:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/04/17/MNHE1IJT3A.DTL&feed=rss.jking

The 403-acre oval in the middle of the bay boasts a uniquely captivating setting, but its soil could turn to jelly in a major earthquake.

​

-- As a low-lying artificial island set between two major faults, geologists say that in its present state, Treasure Island's sandy soil could liquefy in a major earthquake and be threatened by rising sea levels.
-- Despite a plan that subsidizes ferry service and commuter buses, studies project that more than half of island residents will travel to and from work by automobile - a major strain on the Bay Bridge, which already is at capacity during commute hours.

​

 

[Nintendesert]

I don't see the problem, what are the odds of an earthquake ever hitting San Fran? Develop away!

 

[Doppel]

What is "San Fransico"?

 

[dawp]

Liquefaction will be a problem. I suspect the developers will disappear once construction is complete and the residents will be left SOL after an earthquake. Anyone buying there should know what they're getting themselves into and have to sign a release.

 

[K1052]

Like to back this up? I have worked and followed the zoning bureaucracy here and its no different really then NYC (which has far more hoops to jump through)

The fact that our skyline is endlessly full of new skyscrapers being built and every street has a new loft going up I would have to say this is more talk radio nonsense from haters from the midwest or something.


Just in the past 2 years our skyline is unrecognizable with new skyscrapers in this recession, so much for "liberal economic stagnancy".

Newest thing they are working on:

This will be the tallest building in the City soon overtaking the transamerica pyramid.

We've done construction in a lot of cities and looked at even more. CA is a pain in the ass and SF in particular.

And yes, I am from that hyper conservative stronghold known as "Chicago". I must be pouring over ever word Rush says and relentlessly DVRing every Glenn Beck episode I can find while finding ways to denigrate SF.

I like SF....aside from it's transit systems...and usually vacation there once a year. That doesn't make me blind to it's challenges when it comes to development.

BTW: Define "soon"....Transbay Tower won't be built for another 10-20 years, even Pelli has come out and said that. We'll get another super-tall long before SF will.

 

[wuliheron]

Liquefaction will be a problem. I suspect the developers will disappear once construction is complete and the residents will be left SOL after an earthquake. Anyone buying there should know what they're getting themselves into and have to sign a release.

Just provide lifeboats to go with the island.

 

[Capt Caveman]

This is a terrible idea. Treasure Island is fill dirt and it's sinking. It's only stayed as high as it is now because of constant (expensive) maintenance that has mostly been done by the military so far, but will become taxpayer expense if they develop it, all for developers to profit. One good earthquake and we'll all get to watch the horror on the news.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/e/a/1995/07/27/NEWS843.dtl
http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-02-21/bay-area/17282525_1_mount-diablo-rise-thrust-fault/2

Earthquakes have occurred since it's creation and the the island is still there. Without looking at the development plans, I'm sure that part of the plan would be to shore up the ground. There are many places built on landfill(ie. much of Boston).

 

[K1052]

Earthquakes have occurred since it's creation and the the island is still there. Without looking at the development plans, I'm sure that part of the plan would be to shore up the ground. There are many places built on landfill(ie. much of Boston).

Any major structure will definitely take the seismic risks into account, building codes require it. SF knows what can happen to landfill after the damage done in the Marina District by the LP quake.