Saddleback Church - Obama and McCain

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Dari
You actually think that people mean Bush himself when make accusations against his Administration or his campaign?

Where have you been?
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: JD50

I'd like to see those videos, we'll use this for comparison purposes.
hehe I think you link that video in every P&N thread.

nope, just the ones where McCain is accused of being a poor public speaker, or Obama is praised for being such a wonderful public speaker. Ok so you're right, I do link that video in every P&N thread.

I really would like to see a video like that with McCain as the star, for the lulz of course.
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
This whole thing was about Rick Warren, all about him, not Jesus or God or how the candidates would actually help the country. It was about him getting free media play and selling CD's for Rick Warren.

He got the candidates to kiss his holy ass so he can elbow his way into the top when Billy Graham kicks the bucket. He also places himself in line for some of that good government money they will have to shell out for continued 'faith based iniatives'. Continued because Jesus will not be happy if Pat Robertson's government checks stop coming. Did anyone else notice pastor Rick going a little sensitive over the "definition of rich" category, I wondered what was that about, was it to protect his own, no doubt, high income status? I would have asked Rick Warren about the camel's path through the eye of a needle being easier than the rich man's entrance into heaven according to the Bible.

That politicians would even court the biblically-illiterate, unchristian American Christianists is the height of irony. The same Christianists who have no problem with wealth, so long as they have it, can we get an SUV testimonial?. Their faith is in prosperity, their loyalty to the almighty dollar. Some are sincere, but most aren't - you can't build a megachurch out of true believers, although you can fill it with charlatans and hypocrites and people wanting to be led astray. The megachurch movement makes me think of Jesus and the moneylenders, except American-style, they're like "It's a-okay!"

For Example:

"We are one of those people that make over $250,000 a year, and I don't agree that that makes us rich," said Melinda Sacks, who runs her husband's law office in San Clemente, referring to Obama's answer at the forum that put her in the "wealthy" category. "Even with that kind of income, we struggle to pay everything we have gotten ourselves into."

A perfect representative of the kind of faithful drawn to megachurches, embracing the "party of personal responsibility" and apparently demonstrating very little personal responsibility if $250K a year isn't enough for their no doubt pious "Christian" lifestyle. Who's fault is it that you're struggling to pay it all. What part of "conservative" don't you understand. I am so sick of the sense of entitlement and total lack of self-awareness from people like this woman.

I understand why Obama & McCain accepted this invitation, but I don't have to like that they pretty much had to take it. Actually, that politicians would court them isn't so ironic; politicians are whores. But that there would be this notion of the American Christianists as this voice of moral authority, it's just absurd. I think Warren was given a forum he didn't deserve in this event, and I can only hope that his own charlatanism comes back to haunt him at some point, although there'll be another Christianist huckster waiting in the wings, ready for their turn at bat.

 

yankeesfan

Diamond Member
Aug 6, 2004
5,922
1
71

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Obama: Well, um, well, um, that's above my paygrade.


lol, can't wait to see him in the debates. That empty suit folds so easily when he's not reading from his prompter.


 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
...Good Stuff...

I always thought it as kind of odd that we had such a debate before either of them being offically nominated plus it's at a church. It might have worked out for Obama as he might have got rid of that rumor that he's Muslim.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: JD50

I'd like to see those videos, we'll use this for comparison purposes.
hehe I think you link that video in every P&N thread.

nope, just the ones where McCain is accused of being a poor public speaker, or Obama is praised for being such a wonderful public speaker. Ok so you're right, I do link that video in every P&N thread.

I really would like to see a video like that with McCain as the star, for the lulz of course.

Text and Text
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: lupi
Obama: Well, um, well, um, that's above my paygrade.


lol, can't wait to see him in the debates. That empty suit folds so easily when he's not reading from his prompter.

I can't wait too seem him slaughter McCain, do you honestly believe McCain even stands a chance? I'm already planning party to watch the GOP finally fall...
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: lupi
Obama: Well, um, well, um, that's above my paygrade.


lol, can't wait to see him in the debates. That empty suit folds so easily when he's not reading from his prompter.

I can't wait too seem him slaughter McCain, do you honestly believe McCain even stands a chance? I'm already planning party to watch the GOP finally fall...

Obama isnt perfect as Sat showed. He also had issues during some of his debates with Hillary. I am of the belief the more he talks the worse his campaign gets. I am actually looking forward to the debates. Where he isnt allowed to read a pre-scripted speech to wow the audience with.

 

JohnnyGage

Senior member
Feb 18, 2008
699
0
71
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tab
Obama seems quite tired and isn't as quick as I expected him to be.
Not as quick as McCain? Maybe because McCain heard the questions before they were asked.

He was supposed to be in a silent chamber so he wouldn't know what was going to be asked (or have a chance to prepare his answers).

Confirmed: McCain was not in the "cone of silence".

I thought McCain was a senile light-weight... how'd he have time to memorize, formulate, and practice all of his answers?
Memorizing and spouting talking points is about all he can do. Do you need videos of his performances during the Republican primary debates to remember how badly he stumbles when he doesn't know the questions ahead of time?

To both links non-sense and non-sense. He was in a motorcade on the way to the event and not in the fictional 'cone of silence'. Even if he did hear the questions he still wouldn't have time to prepare to level to which he performed. If it is revealed that heard the questions before hand then there might be something--but that will never happen.
 

JohnnyGage

Senior member
Feb 18, 2008
699
0
71
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: lupi
Obama: Well, um, well, um, that's above my paygrade.


lol, can't wait to see him in the debates. That empty suit folds so easily when he's not reading from his prompter.

I can't wait too seem him slaughter McCain, do you honestly believe McCain even stands a chance? I'm already planning party to watch the GOP finally fall...

Just make sure you have some crow on hand--you know, just in case.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: lupi
Obama: Well, um, well, um, that's above my paygrade.


lol, can't wait to see him in the debates. That empty suit folds so easily when he's not reading from his prompter.

I can't wait too seem him slaughter McCain, do you honestly believe McCain even stands a chance? I'm already planning party to watch the GOP finally fall...

Obama isnt perfect as Sat showed. He also had issues during some of his debates with Hillary. I am of the belief the more he talks the worse his campaign gets. I am actually looking forward to the debates. Where he isnt allowed to read a pre-scripted speech to wow the audience with.

Who has said that Obama is perfect except the McCain faithful?

Yaknow, Gen, it's sad for me to see you fall into this kind of ridiculous partisan logic this year. "Your guy isn't perfect so you have to vote for my guy who isn't perfect either."
When considering the choices in an election, one has to weigh and measure the candidates against each other, and not against some fictional vision of perfection that none of the candidates live up to.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
This whole thing was about Rick Warren, all about him, not Jesus or God or how the candidates would actually help the country. It was about him getting free media play and selling CD's for Rick Warren.

He got the candidates to kiss his holy ass so he can elbow his way into the top when Billy Graham kicks the bucket. He also places himself in line for some of that good government money they will have to shell out for continued 'faith based iniatives'. Continued because Jesus will not be happy if Pat Robertson's government checks stop coming. Did anyone else notice pastor Rick going a little sensitive over the "definition of rich" category, I wondered what was that about, was it to protect his own, no doubt, high income status? I would have asked Rick Warren about the camel's path through the eye of a needle being easier than the rich man's entrance into heaven according to the Bible.

That politicians would even court the biblically-illiterate, unchristian American Christianists is the height of irony. The same Christianists who have no problem with wealth, so long as they have it, can we get an SUV testimonial?. Their faith is in prosperity, their loyalty to the almighty dollar. Some are sincere, but most aren't - you can't build a megachurch out of true believers, although you can fill it with charlatans and hypocrites and people wanting to be led astray. The megachurch movement makes me think of Jesus and the moneylenders, except American-style, they're like "It's a-okay!"

For Example:

"We are one of those people that make over $250,000 a year, and I don't agree that that makes us rich," said Melinda Sacks, who runs her husband's law office in San Clemente, referring to Obama's answer at the forum that put her in the "wealthy" category. "Even with that kind of income, we struggle to pay everything we have gotten ourselves into."

A perfect representative of the kind of faithful drawn to megachurches, embracing the "party of personal responsibility" and apparently demonstrating very little personal responsibility if $250K a year isn't enough for their no doubt pious "Christian" lifestyle. Who's fault is it that you're struggling to pay it all. What part of "conservative" don't you understand. I am so sick of the sense of entitlement and total lack of self-awareness from people like this woman.

I understand why Obama & McCain accepted this invitation, but I don't have to like that they pretty much had to take it. Actually, that politicians would court them isn't so ironic; politicians are whores. But that there would be this notion of the American Christianists as this voice of moral authority, it's just absurd. I think Warren was given a forum he didn't deserve in this event, and I can only hope that his own charlatanism comes back to haunt him at some point, although there'll be another Christianist huckster waiting in the wings, ready for their turn at bat.

I can understand the conservative McCain going to this church, but I am disappointed in Obama for giving publicity to this hocus pocus. A pox on both of their houses for feeding this troll.
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
^^^

Had Obama not attended, it would have turned into a "is he Christian enough or is he really a secret Muslim" media feeding frenzy. He didn't come across as a threat to the religious right wing. He didn't come across as someone who is "the other". I think quite a few younger Christians will vote for Obama.

I believe his goal at this Church was to show him as a reasonable, smart guy who has basic "American" values. The Republicans are counting on their voters to get out and vote against the "demon". Obama was not the "demon" they'd hoped for. The Republicans are trying to motivate all those voters who would have been motivated to vote against Senator Clinton, to get out and vote against Obama. I don't think it will happen. Most of those folks will stay home because they don't really like McCain either. He had very little to lose and "some" to gain by going.

Part of the GOP stratagy apparently, that what they want you to believe is there is now a test of faith to hold office in this country. I can think of no other reason why Warren, who as far as i know has absolutely no qualifications that relate to politics, the presidency, or policy, would be conducting this type of prime time interview. I can't decide if this speaks more to the decline of the political process that there is a de facto test of faith, or the decline of the state of journalism that so few journalists have chosen to ask whether or not this type of event is appropriate in that it first place, given that not everyone in the country is christian and again, there is no test of faith to hold office.

This has nothing to do with my feelings about the core dogma of Christianity itself, which surely to a person, not one mega church pastor is a practitioner of. The philosophy of the religious right bears no resemblance to the Sermon on the Mount.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: lupi
Obama: Well, um, well, um, that's above my paygrade.


lol, can't wait to see him in the debates. That empty suit folds so easily when he's not reading from his prompter.

I can't wait too seem him slaughter McCain, do you honestly believe McCain even stands a chance? I'm already planning party to watch the GOP finally fall...

Obama isnt perfect as Sat showed. He also had issues during some of his debates with Hillary. I am of the belief the more he talks the worse his campaign gets. I am actually looking forward to the debates. Where he isnt allowed to read a pre-scripted speech to wow the audience with.

Who has said that Obama is perfect except the McCain faithful?

Yaknow, Gen, it's sad for me to see you fall into this kind of ridiculous partisan logic this year. "Your guy isn't perfect so you have to vote for my guy who isn't perfect either."
When considering the choices in an election, one has to weigh and measure the candidates against each other, and not against some fictional vision of perfection that none of the candidates live up to.

Oh christ Vic nowhere in my reply did I say you cant vote for Obama because he isnt perfect and thus have to vote for McCain. Look at what I am responding to? When somebody claims he is going to slaughter McCain that implies a level of perfection.

As for the rest of my comments. I still stand by my theory the longer this race goes, the more he talks, the tighter this race is going to become. I really felt the press gave him a lot of slack during the primaries and his biggest leads were nearly 2 months ago.

And overall you know my vote for McCain is just a vote for gridlock.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
For the record Obama is the guy who spent 20 years in a very public and well known church and freely talks about his faith.

McCain is the secularist who hardly ever talks about his faith.
 

Excelsior

Lifer
May 30, 2002
19,047
18
81
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
For the record Obama is the guy who spent 20 years in a very public and well known church and freely talks about his faith.

McCain is the secularist who hardly ever talks about his faith.

I wouldn't refer to McCain as a secularist simply because he isn't very open or vocal about his faith.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: lupi
Obama: Well, um, well, um, that's above my paygrade.


lol, can't wait to see him in the debates. That empty suit folds so easily when he's not reading from his prompter.

I can't wait too seem him slaughter McCain, do you honestly believe McCain even stands a chance? I'm already planning party to watch the GOP finally fall...

Obama isnt perfect as Sat showed. He also had issues during some of his debates with Hillary. I am of the belief the more he talks the worse his campaign gets. I am actually looking forward to the debates. Where he isnt allowed to read a pre-scripted speech to wow the audience with.

Do you honestly believe Obama, an Ivy Leaguer whom graduated from Harvard as a lawyer is going to lose to McSame in the debates?

Are you serious? :Q

On a side note, the people claiming Obama is perfect are the Republicans and the lolbertarians.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: lupi
Obama: Well, um, well, um, that's above my paygrade.


lol, can't wait to see him in the debates. That empty suit folds so easily when he's not reading from his prompter.

I can't wait too seem him slaughter McCain, do you honestly believe McCain even stands a chance? I'm already planning party to watch the GOP finally fall...

Obama isnt perfect as Sat showed. He also had issues during some of his debates with Hillary. I am of the belief the more he talks the worse his campaign gets. I am actually looking forward to the debates. Where he isnt allowed to read a pre-scripted speech to wow the audience with.

Do you honestly believe Obama, an Ivy Leaguer whom graduated from Harvard as a lawyer is going to lose to McSame in the debates?

Are you serious? :Q

On a side note, the people claiming Obama is perfect are the Republicans and the lolbertarians.

the narrative of Obama as the perfect messianic figure practically write itself, though.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,682
40,037
136
When somebody claims he is going to slaughter McCain that implies a level of perfection.


Wow! Quite the leap there Genx, even or you. No, you implied it by bringing it up. For the rest of us, the notion of "perfection" doesn't even enter into the equation of one option being better than the other (unless of course, you're an evangelical). One candidate is simply antiquated and out of touch in comparison to the other. Keep in mind any final vote outside of 10% in one direction is given the impressive title of "Land slide!"

I dunno, I think Vic is on to something here.

But, I actually agree with the rest of your post, and find your final sentence quite the common-sense caveat. ;)

ROFLMAO at PJ for trying to dupe readers into false representation. :laugh: That reek in the air must be desperation. I'd say 'nice try!,' but you've always pitifully sucked at, shall we say, "interpreting" news and events to the P&N crowd... (those not convinced should do a search on these forums. - Hilarious!)

I wouldn't refer to McCain as a secularist simply because he isn't very open or vocal about his faith.

I would have used his pathetic pandering to the evangelical base as a better example of his non-secular beliefs. But then, I wasn't trying to bash secular Americans. Thanks for that.


This whole thing was about Rick Warren, all about him, not Jesus or God or how the candidates would actually help the country.

I hear ya. He's like our very own Muqtada al Sadr, only with bigger tithe revenues and cable coverage. It's a damn pity so many modern Americans can't see the forest from the dogmatic trees. I still give Obama kudos for the attempt, as it's really an invitation for discourse with the portion of this country that sees things through an idealogical lens - spectacles that Obama himself shed sometime ago it seems.


Edit: Used wrong end quote, oops.








 

TechAZ

Golden Member
Sep 8, 2007
1,188
0
71
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
For the record Obama is the guy who spent 20 years in a very public and well known church and freely talks about his faith.

McCain is the secularist who hardly ever talks about his faith.

I was listening to Mike Malloy on the way home from work today (lol progressive radio) and he was blasting Obama for even showing up. It was quite humorous, trashing Obama b/c he wasn't liberal enough (see not religious) coupled in with the usual McCain is a killer and serial adulterer, etc etc.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,960
140
106
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Double Trouble
This boils down to: those who like Obama better thought he did better, those who like McCain better will think he did better. I'd be curious to see how independents viewed this.

I thought Obama was unsure of himself when not given a nice script to go off. McCain threw in too many anecdotes.

I did my best to see what the MSM talking heads thought of their performances.

I got the impression they felt it wasn't the best Obama performance. BTW, I'm speaking about the coments from the MSM who appear to support Obama, I don't care what Hannity may have had to say etc.

They were afraid he wasn't concise enough, that his answers were too nuanced (like Kerry or Gore one actually said). Apparently they worry this will not play well to the average voter.

Re: Roe vs Wade, I'm another who doesn't believe McCain can do a damn thing about it. I recall the trouble GWB had getting SC judges through the Senate confirmation process even when the Repubs held a majority in the Senate.

If McCain were to become President, the Dems will still leadership in the Senate Judiciary Committee. He'll never be able have a litmus test like anti-abortion and get any nominee through the Committee. It just won't happen; it's an unrealistic fantasy for the RR.

Fern


..the obama's response to the questions were "spot on" leftist radical dogma. The liberals should be happy.
 

Ballatician

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2007
1,985
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tab
Obama seems quite tired and isn't as quick as I expected him to be.
Not as quick as McCain? Maybe because McCain heard the questions before they were asked.

He was supposed to be in a silent chamber so he wouldn't know what was going to be asked (or have a chance to prepare his answers).

Confirmed: McCain was not in the "cone of silence".

I can't remember a McCain speech from this year that he hasn't been staring straight down into his note cards, they are really painful to watch. It's obvious he had some knowledge of the questions and was allowed to just say his stump speech.

The McCain of 2000 was so much better.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Genx87
Obama isnt perfect as Sat showed. He also had issues during some of his debates with Hillary. I am of the belief the more he talks the worse his campaign gets. I am actually looking forward to the debates. Where he isnt allowed to read a pre-scripted speech to wow the audience with.
Who has said that Obama is perfect except the McCain faithful?

Yaknow, Gen, it's sad for me to see you fall into this kind of ridiculous partisan logic this year. "Your guy isn't perfect so you have to vote for my guy who isn't perfect either."
When considering the choices in an election, one has to weigh and measure the candidates against each other, and not against some fictional vision of perfection that none of the candidates live up to.

Oh christ Vic nowhere in my reply did I say you cant vote for Obama because he isnt perfect and thus have to vote for McCain. Look at what I am responding to? When somebody claims he is going to slaughter McCain that implies a level of perfection.

As for the rest of my comments. I still stand by my theory the longer this race goes, the more he talks, the tighter this race is going to become. I really felt the press gave him a lot of slack during the primaries and his biggest leads were nearly 2 months ago.

And overall you know my vote for McCain is just a vote for gridlock.

No, I think you have proven that to be bullshit at this point.

As it is, all the latest polls are showing that Obama got a bump from Saddleback, so I'd say you don't know what you're talking about.