Saddleback Church - Obama and McCain

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Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: Xonoahbin
McCain looks far better than Obama did. Obama stuttered a lot and paused awkwardly, as if he had troubles answering some questions.

Psssst... It's called "THINKING ABOUT THE QUESTION," my friend.

Actually, it's called "I'm not reading from the teleprompter".

Actually, it is thinking. Unless, you have a ready answer for every question you're going to think through your answer.
That's what scares me....Obama thinking. He seems an intellectual lightweight to me.


Funny....anytime ANY political figure of any party in the past has stumbled and fumbled through answers in front of a camera like Obama has, he get labeled "unintelligent", "dumb", etc.
Now Obama is "thinking".
 

TechAZ

Golden Member
Sep 8, 2007
1,188
0
71
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: Xonoahbin
McCain looks far better than Obama did. Obama stuttered a lot and paused awkwardly, as if he had troubles answering some questions.

Psssst... It's called "THINKING ABOUT THE QUESTION," my friend.

Actually, it's called "I'm not reading from the teleprompter".

Actually, it is thinking. Unless, you have a ready answer for every question you're going to think through your answer.
That's what scares me....Obama thinking. He seems an intellectual lightweight to me.


Funny....anytime ANY political figure of any party in the past has stumbled and fumbled through answers in front of a camera like Obama has, he get labeled "unintelligent", "dumb", etc.
Now Obama is "thinking".

:laugh:

It's true
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
This boils down to: those who like Obama better thought he did better, those who like McCain better will think he did better. I'd be curious to see how independents viewed this.

I thought Obama was unsure of himself when not given a nice script to go off. McCain threw in too many anecdotes.
 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
Originally posted by: SlingXShot
Even if McCain answers questions better, the way he answered is all WAR WAR and WAR again. Why I want a war president? Are we always in war? (it seems for McCain) ... I am sick of this war talk...no wars...

I guess you know your candidate stunk when his fan club isn't happy.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Double Trouble
This boils down to: those who like Obama better thought he did better, those who like McCain better will think he did better. I'd be curious to see how independents viewed this.

I thought Obama was unsure of himself when not given a nice script to go off. McCain threw in too many anecdotes.

I did my best to see what the MSM talking heads thought of their performances.

I got the impression they felt it wasn't the best Obama performance. BTW, I'm speaking about the coments from the MSM who appear to support Obama, I don't care what Hannity may have had to say etc.

They were afraid he wasn't concise enough, that his answers were too nuanced (like Kerry or Gore one actually said). Apparently they worry this will not play well to the average voter.

Re: Roe vs Wade, I'm another who doesn't believe McCain can do a damn thing about it. I recall the trouble GWB had getting SC judges through the Senate confirmation process even when the Repubs held a majority in the Senate.

If McCain were to become President, the Dems will still leadership in the Senate Judiciary Committee. He'll never be able have a litmus test like anti-abortion and get any nominee through the Committee. It just won't happen; it's an unrealistic fantasy for the RR.

Fern
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: Xonoahbin
McCain looks far better than Obama did. Obama stuttered a lot and paused awkwardly, as if he had troubles answering some questions.

Psssst... It's called "THINKING ABOUT THE QUESTION," my friend.

Actually, it's called "I'm not reading from the teleprompter".

Actually, it is thinking. Unless, you have a ready answer for every question you're going to think through your answer.
That's what scares me....Obama thinking. He seems an intellectual lightweight to me.


Funny....anytime ANY political figure of any party in the past has stumbled and fumbled through answers in front of a camera like Obama has, he get labeled "unintelligent", "dumb", etc.
Now Obama is "thinking".

Which Presidential candidate was an intellectual heavyweight to you? BTW, when was the last time you had an intellectual conversation that was constructive for all parties? I'm not talking shouting matches.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Double Trouble
This boils down to: those who like Obama better thought he did better, those who like McCain better will think he did better. I'd be curious to see how independents viewed this.

I thought Obama was unsure of himself when not given a nice script to go off. McCain threw in too many anecdotes.

I did my best to see what the MSM talking heads thought of their performances.

I got the impression they felt it wasn't the best Obama performance. BTW, I'm speaking about the coments from the MSM who appear to support Obama, I don't care what Hannity may have had to say etc.

They were afraid he wasn't concise enough, that his answers were too nuanced (like Kerry or Gore one actually said). Apparently they worry this will not play well to the average voter.

Re: Roe vs Wade, I'm another who doesn't believe McCain can do a damn thing about it. I recall the trouble GWB had getting SC judges through the Senate confirmation process even when the Repubs held a majority in the Senate.

If McCain were to become President, the Dems will still leadership in the Senate Judiciary Committee. He'll never be able have a litmus test like anti-abortion and get any nominee through the Committee. It just won't happen; it's an unrealistic fantasy for the RR.

Fern

I got a similar impression as well. They liked McCain's anecodotal (sic?) answers. The problem with the short answers that Republicans are known for is that they are the equivalent of intellectual porn. They're a temporary high that don't leave any lasting impression. Democrats answers, usually leave you thinking. If people like Bush and Reagan continue to win the Presidency, this could be our future.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,555
9,907
146
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: gersson
wow McCain did a lot better and Obama a lot worse than I had anticipated!

Due in part to the audience being a socially conservative "home team" for McCain where he could feel at home revealing his fundy core, i.e., legal rights begin AT CONCEPTION!

Were you watching the same forum? I heard plenty of handclaps from the audience for many of Obama's liberal policies.

Saddleback is a conservative, evangelical church.

 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
Originally posted by: Fern
I got the impression they felt it wasn't the best Obama performance. BTW, I'm speaking about the coments from the MSM who appear to support Obama, I don't care what Hannity may have had to say etc.

They were afraid he wasn't concise enough, that his answers were too nuanced (like Kerry or Gore one actually said). Apparently they worry this will not play well to the average voter.

Re: Roe vs Wade, I'm another who doesn't believe McCain can do a damn thing about it. I recall the trouble GWB had getting SC judges through the Senate confirmation process even when the Repubs held a majority in the Senate.

If McCain were to become President, the Dems will still leadership in the Senate Judiciary Committee. He'll never be able have a litmus test like anti-abortion and get any nominee through the Committee. It just won't happen; it's an unrealistic fantasy for the RR.

Fern

Agreed 100%, your post is spot-on.

Personally I disagree very much with McCain's pro-life stance (which has "hardened" considerably now that he's courting the RR), but the fact that he'd face a democratic senate would keep him from going overboard on that one. Obama on the other hand could get away with the left equivalent of Harriet Myers because the congress would go along with him. Another reason to vote McCain.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Perknose
ZOMG! He was asked what income figure means you NOT middle class, but rich. After a three minute stump speech diversion, he actually answered the question: 5 MILLION DOLLARS!

So all you middle class with only a 4 and 1/2 million dollar net worth, I feel your pain!

McCain is WAY out there, more than I ever feared. :shocked:

I would like to see the actual question posed to him. I'm not sure the *income* word was used. If it was McCain made a mistake. Edit: Same the evening news later this day, and - yeah - McCain definitely said "income tax"

But I understood McCain's answer differently than all of you, and as an accountant thought it was a better answer (financialy).

*Rich* means how much wealth do you own, not the size of your W-2 (although a big one can make you rich).

So, while Obama was speaking of annual income (and therefore income tax), I thought McCain was speaking was speaking of net worth (and therefore estate tax). I'm now pretty sure he was. Here's McCain's estate tax proposal:

Make permanent estate tax with $5 million exemption and 15 percent rate

I think that makes it pretty clear why the candidates answers were so different.

Fern
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Perknose
ZOMG! He was asked what income figure means you NOT middle class, but rich. After a three minute stump speech diversion, he actually answered the question: 5 MILLION DOLLARS!

So all you middle class with only a 4 and 1/2 million dollar net worth, I feel your pain!

McCain is WAY out there, more than I ever feared. :shocked:

I would like to see the actual question posed to him. I'm not sure the *income* word was used. If it was McCain made a mistake.

But I understood McCain's answer differently than all of you, and as an accountant thought it was a better answer (financialy).

*Rich* means how much wealth do you own, not the size of your W-2 (although a big one can make you rich).

So, while Obama was speaking of annual income (and therefore income tax), I thought McCain was speaking was speaking of net worth (and therefore estate tax). I'm now pretty sure he was. Here's McCain's estate tax proposal:

Make permanent estate tax with $5 million exemption and 15 percent rate

I think that makes it pretty clear why the candidates answers were so different.

Fern

So if I made $50 million annually and blew it all on cocaine, rented luxury cars, and hookers, you wouldn't consider me rich?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Dari
So if I made $50 million annually and blew it all on cocaine, rented luxury cars, and hookers, you wouldn't consider me rich?

No, *rich* is more a concept of wealth or net worth.

Lot of people who are high earners but not rich/wealthy. (Got divorced, sued, extreme medical bills or make bad investments.)

There are a lot wealthy people who little to no (annual income) to declare.

I'm betting that Warren phrased the question differently to the two candidates

2 compeletely different questions: 1. How much money do you have to have before you're rich?, or 2. How much money do you have to make before you're rich?

Warren may have been aware of their tax positions and purposefully asked the questions differently.

Fern
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Double Trouble
This boils down to: those who like Obama better thought he did better, those who like McCain better will think he did better. I'd be curious to see how independents viewed this.

I thought Obama was unsure of himself when not given a nice script to go off. McCain threw in too many anecdotes.

I did my best to see what the MSM talking heads thought of their performances.

I got the impression they felt it wasn't the best Obama performance. BTW, I'm speaking about the coments from the MSM who appear to support Obama, I don't care what Hannity may have had to say etc.

They were afraid he wasn't concise enough, that his answers were too nuanced (like Kerry or Gore one actually said). Apparently they worry this will not play well to the average voter.

Re: Roe vs Wade, I'm another who doesn't believe McCain can do a damn thing about it. I recall the trouble GWB had getting SC judges through the Senate confirmation process even when the Repubs held a majority in the Senate.

If McCain were to become President, the Dems will still leadership in the Senate Judiciary Committee. He'll never be able have a litmus test like anti-abortion and get any nominee through the Committee. It just won't happen; it's an unrealistic fantasy for the RR.

Fern

I got a similar impression as well. They liked McCain's anecodotal (sic?) answers. The problem with the short answers that Republicans are known for is that they are the equivalent of intellectual porn. They're a temporary high that don't leave any lasting impression. Democrats answers, usually leave you thinking. If people like Bush and Reagan continue to win the Presidency, this could be our future.
I didnt catch all of this 2 hour event. I want to find a transcription.

But from what I DID see I agree that the stump speech was relied upon all too often by McCain. I really dislike these automated "intellectual porn" responses that he chokes out in between calling everyone "My friends" HE NEVER used to be like this!!! I believe even he dislikes the caricacture he has become; created by his handlers and campaign people...he is sitting there with a very uncomfortable look on his face...a certain exertion, just to appear casual. He never used to look like that..imho.

As for Obama... yes he is intelligent and yes I seem to agree with everything that comes out of his mouth but DAMN he needs to quicken the pace with his responses...unfortunately, for the voting masses, Obama can and should employ some of the automated responses that McCain relies on...and I really hate that idea. But people's attention span is what it is..

what I conclude: McCain pandered and Obama floundered.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Originally posted by: Drakkon
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Perknose

And he doesn't think YOU should be able to get married, as if that were the mother-fucking government's business.

for what it's worth, Obama doesn't think I should be able to get married either.
rose.gif


(I'm not saying McCain is better than Obama on the gay rights issue, but strictly in terms of marriage, Obama doesn't score any points)

but my cousin and her girlfriend are getting married in 2 weeks and I'm very much looking forward to it.
I never heard Obama say specifically he was against gay marriage just that he believes its between a man & woman. From what he was saying it comes down to giving the same rights to gay couples that regular married couples have and he didn't seem to be against that - however he slinked back and said that the states should decide that. In other words he did his best to play every side of the issue without actually taking a solid stance. I agree didn't really score any points but i wouldn't say he lost any points either.

finally found the quote --

"I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman... I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage"
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tab
Obama seems quite tired and isn't as quick as I expected him to be.
Not as quick as McCain? Maybe because McCain heard the questions before they were asked.

He was supposed to be in a silent chamber so he wouldn't know what was going to be asked (or have a chance to prepare his answers).

Confirmed: McCain was not in the "cone of silence".

I thought McCain was a senile light-weight... how'd he have time to memorize, formulate, and practice all of his answers?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tab
Obama seems quite tired and isn't as quick as I expected him to be.
Not as quick as McCain? Maybe because McCain heard the questions before they were asked.

He was supposed to be in a silent chamber so he wouldn't know what was going to be asked (or have a chance to prepare his answers).

Confirmed: McCain was not in the "cone of silence".

I thought McCain was a senile light-weight... how'd he have time to memorize, formulate, and practice all of his answers?

Falls under the same theory as Bush being the dumbest president alive when he isnt orchestrating 9-11, stealing two elections, giving money to oil buddies, starting wars without getting caught, and being responsible for every ill in the world during his presidency upto and uncluding people failing to wipe their own ass properly.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tab
Obama seems quite tired and isn't as quick as I expected him to be.
Not as quick as McCain? Maybe because McCain heard the questions before they were asked.

He was supposed to be in a silent chamber so he wouldn't know what was going to be asked (or have a chance to prepare his answers).

Confirmed: McCain was not in the "cone of silence".

I thought McCain was a senile light-weight... how'd he have time to memorize, formulate, and practice all of his answers?

Falls under the same theory as Bush being the dumbest president alive when he isnt orchestrating 9-11, stealing two elections, giving money to oil buddies, starting wars without getting caught, and being responsible for every ill in the world during his presidency upto and uncluding people failing to wipe their own ass properly.

There's a difference between the man and his handlers. Big difference.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tab
Obama seems quite tired and isn't as quick as I expected him to be.
Not as quick as McCain? Maybe because McCain heard the questions before they were asked.

He was supposed to be in a silent chamber so he wouldn't know what was going to be asked (or have a chance to prepare his answers).

Confirmed: McCain was not in the "cone of silence".

I thought McCain was a senile light-weight... how'd he have time to memorize, formulate, and practice all of his answers?
Memorizing and spouting talking points is about all he can do. Do you need videos of his performances during the Republican primary debates to remember how badly he stumbles when he doesn't know the questions ahead of time?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tab
Obama seems quite tired and isn't as quick as I expected him to be.
Not as quick as McCain? Maybe because McCain heard the questions before they were asked.

He was supposed to be in a silent chamber so he wouldn't know what was going to be asked (or have a chance to prepare his answers).

Confirmed: McCain was not in the "cone of silence".

I thought McCain was a senile light-weight... how'd he have time to memorize, formulate, and practice all of his answers?

Falls under the same theory as Bush being the dumbest president alive when he isnt orchestrating 9-11, stealing two elections, giving money to oil buddies, starting wars without getting caught, and being responsible for every ill in the world during his presidency upto and uncluding people failing to wipe their own ass properly.

There's a difference between the man and his handlers. Big difference.

Sure there is, depends on the size of ones wild imagination and failures from my observations on this board.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tab
Obama seems quite tired and isn't as quick as I expected him to be.
Not as quick as McCain? Maybe because McCain heard the questions before they were asked.

He was supposed to be in a silent chamber so he wouldn't know what was going to be asked (or have a chance to prepare his answers).

Confirmed: McCain was not in the "cone of silence".

I thought McCain was a senile light-weight... how'd he have time to memorize, formulate, and practice all of his answers?

McCain doesn't like teleprompters so he memorized his stump speech(es) in order to avoid using them.

No one that I know of says he is senile.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tab
Obama seems quite tired and isn't as quick as I expected him to be.
Not as quick as McCain? Maybe because McCain heard the questions before they were asked.

He was supposed to be in a silent chamber so he wouldn't know what was going to be asked (or have a chance to prepare his answers).

Confirmed: McCain was not in the "cone of silence".

I thought McCain was a senile light-weight... how'd he have time to memorize, formulate, and practice all of his answers?

Falls under the same theory as Bush being the dumbest president alive when he isnt orchestrating 9-11, stealing two elections, giving money to oil buddies, starting wars without getting caught, and being responsible for every ill in the world during his presidency upto and uncluding people failing to wipe their own ass properly.

There's a difference between the man and his handlers. Big difference.

Sure there is, depends on the size of ones wild imagination and failures from my observations on this board.

You actually think that people mean Bush himself when make accusations against his Administration or his campaign?
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tab
Obama seems quite tired and isn't as quick as I expected him to be.
Not as quick as McCain? Maybe because McCain heard the questions before they were asked.

He was supposed to be in a silent chamber so he wouldn't know what was going to be asked (or have a chance to prepare his answers).

Confirmed: McCain was not in the "cone of silence".

I thought McCain was a senile light-weight... how'd he have time to memorize, formulate, and practice all of his answers?
Memorizing and spouting talking points is about all he can do. Do you need videos of his performances during the Republican primary debates to remember how badly he stumbles when he doesn't know the questions ahead of time?

I'd like to see those videos, we'll use this for comparison purposes.