Saddam's Philippines Terror Connection

[Kappo]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Kappo

I realize Saddam is the liberal hero.

Are you sure about that? Wasn't it the Reagan Administration who cozied up to him? I also remember Clinton (so-called Liberal) ordering Air Strikes against Iraq when Saddam tried to off the real Bush.

Who is complaining that we shouldnt have gone to war and ousted him? Im pretty sure it isnt conservatives.

Bush sr. isnt a conservative???

While we hoped that popular revolt or coup would topple Saddam, neither the U.S. nor the countries of the region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-cold war world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the U.N.'s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome.

more here from bush sr.

Apprehension != against and complaining.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Kappo

Starbucks employees (and thier friends who hang out there for hours and hours on end) are typically Bachelor of Arts (English Majors) who cannot find a job. 😉 Want to take a wager on what political leaning most of those are?

People have no choice but to work at crap corporate chains, and this means lefties LIKE hanging out a mc donalds of coffeeshops, wrong.

starbucks is WTO supporting and treats employees like crap, and yeah, I'd like to see some big statistic that starbucks employees hire "lefties" instead of whatever kid needs a job in this lame economy.

If you come to a real city where kids have a choice noone goes into starbucks but buisness types, suburbia is pathetic for places to hang out.

No wonder so many kids are emo, having to hang out in places like starbucks.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"I realize Saddam is the liberal hero,"

Nice strawman, excellent bit of false attribution...

Rather stunning denial of the facts, as well- Iraqi cooperation with the inspectors having been achieved, it suddenly wasn't good enough, and invasion was required...

For anybody thinking the invasion hasn't been a success, I'd suggest that you examine the results a little more carefully- there are those who have benefitted tremendously. Not the American consumer or taxpayer, however, and obviously not the Iraqis, either-

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12424.htm

He was cooperating only when threatened.
Every time that inspectors were sent back in, it was with conditions that were dictated by Saddam.
He was acting like he had something to hide.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Genx87
There are millions of documents we havent gone through yet. You can expect more of these types of findings as things get translated.

It will be one of those things where the link is credible but the time has passed so much before we finally get all of the documentation translated nobody will care.

doesnt change the fact that nothing stated as reasons for the war were true, thats the crux of the matter... can we go to war on false accusations?

Hello? If I walk into a bank with a fake gun in my pocket and say Ill shoot anyone who moves, is it armed robbery anymore? HELL YES.

If someone ACTS like they are going to stab my wife, am I going to kill him before he can? HELL YES. Even if he "wasnt going to".

hmmm.. Saddam was robbing a bank?

I fail to see the analogy here

try opening your eyes for once.

please please, explain it for me, I would love to know

I already did. Im not doing anymore homework for you. Just because you are the typically uninformed does not mean it is my job to educate you.

you did?

 

[Kappo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Kappo

I realize Saddam is the liberal hero.

Are you sure about that? Wasn't it the Reagan Administration who cozied up to him? I also remember Clinton (so-called Liberal) ordering Air Strikes against Iraq when Saddam tried to off the real Bush.

Who is complaining that we shouldnt have gone to war and ousted him? Im pretty sure it isnt conservatives.

You probably mean Neocons. There are plenty of Conservatives who are now complaining along with Moderates and Liberals.

Conservative and moderates mostly complain about HOW it was done. Not that it was done. Where I come to agreement with them is that we could have handled it a TON better, and it was going to be an inevitable conflict anyhow. Why not get it over with now, since we know that it isnt going to resolve itself?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Kappo

I realize Saddam is the liberal hero.

Are you sure about that? Wasn't it the Reagan Administration who cozied up to him? I also remember Clinton (so-called Liberal) ordering Air Strikes against Iraq when Saddam tried to off the real Bush.

Who is complaining that we shouldnt have gone to war and ousted him? Im pretty sure it isnt conservatives.

You probably mean Neocons. There are plenty of Conservatives who are now complaining along with Moderates and Liberals.

Conservative and moderates mostly complain about HOW it was done. Not that it was done. Where I come to agreement with them is that we could have handled it a TON better, and it was going to be an inevitable conflict anyhow. Why not get it over with now, since we know that it isnt going to resolve itself?

No I think they are questioning the wisdom of invading Iraq at all, especially when it seems that it was a major mistake. We just might have been better off with a crippled/neutered Hussein in power than the anarchy that's raging there now.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Genx87
There are millions of documents we havent gone through yet. You can expect more of these types of findings as things get translated.

It will be one of those things where the link is credible but the time has passed so much before we finally get all of the documentation translated nobody will care.

doesnt change the fact that nothing stated as reasons for the war were true, thats the crux of the matter... can we go to war on false accusations?

Hello? If I walk into a bank with a fake gun in my pocket and say Ill shoot anyone who moves, is it armed robbery anymore? HELL YES.

If someone ACTS like they are going to stab my wife, am I going to kill him before he can? HELL YES. Even if he "wasnt going to".

hmmm.. Saddam was robbing a bank?

I fail to see the analogy here

Damn public schools...

He led people to believe he had WMD. That alone is enough reason to bring down the liberal hero we call a terrorist.

ah ok I got that part

but what about threatening a bank with a fake gun?

sure you might call wmd's a fake gun, but when did he threaten the "bank" ?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Kappo

I realize Saddam is the liberal hero.

Are you sure about that? Wasn't it the Reagan Administration who cozied up to him? I also remember Clinton (so-called Liberal) ordering Air Strikes against Iraq when Saddam tried to off the real Bush.

Who is complaining that we shouldnt have gone to war and ousted him? Im pretty sure it isnt conservatives.

You probably mean Neocons. There are plenty of Conservatives who are now complaining along with Moderates and Liberals.

Conservative and moderates mostly complain about HOW it was done. Not that it was done. Where I come to agreement with them is that we could have handled it a TON better, and it was going to be an inevitable conflict anyhow. Why not get it over with now, since we know that it isnt going to resolve itself?

There is no getting it over with, it was a stupid idea to occupy a foreign land, conservatives did not listen to reason from their own people even or the left who said so, and are too hardheaded to admit they are wrong again and fooled by a complient media

Now once again the country is stuck in a deadlock "hold the course" mindset as more die every day for the rabid right wing small dick complex.

 

[Jhhnn]

So, uhh, Kappo, you dispute the numbers from the Palast article? You dispute the fact that big oil has benefitted tremendously from the situation?

Keep pointing to your strawman, that those opposed to the War liked Hussein, and wanted to see him remain in power. Far from it. That's not an argument, it's a smear.

What's being ignored quite willfully is that the cure is worse than the disease, that the average Iraqi and the American public are both worse off today than before the invasion. Chaos isn't freedom, unless you're a terrorist, and for them, the Bush Admin has provided a golden opportunity in Iraq.

 

[Steeplerot]

It is awfully silly to say lefties who opposed this war are friends of terrorism, bush is the best thing mideast terrorism could have dreamed of.

The whole time this was going down people said this is a bad bad idea, but did people listen to reason -OR- act out of knee jerk revenge (hey wait isnt that what terrorists do?).

A good part of america wanted nothing to do with it, now through people with less then cool heads we have become one in the same in mindset, bringing a country that was loved by the world as being noble and freedom loving to be dragged down to the same mindset as those who wronged it.

Extremism is on the rise, our civil liberties are being jacked, the country is finger pointing and distrusts one another, we are looking at endless war, and osama laughs and laughs and laughs, and still righties dont get it.

 

[Kappo]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Kappo

I realize Saddam is the liberal hero.

Are you sure about that? Wasn't it the Reagan Administration who cozied up to him? I also remember Clinton (so-called Liberal) ordering Air Strikes against Iraq when Saddam tried to off the real Bush.

Who is complaining that we shouldnt have gone to war and ousted him? Im pretty sure it isnt conservatives.

You probably mean Neocons. There are plenty of Conservatives who are now complaining along with Moderates and Liberals.

Conservative and moderates mostly complain about HOW it was done. Not that it was done. Where I come to agreement with them is that we could have handled it a TON better, and it was going to be an inevitable conflict anyhow. Why not get it over with now, since we know that it isnt going to resolve itself?

There is no getting it over with, it was a stupid idea to occupy a foreign land, conservatives did not listen to reason from their own people even or the left who said so, and are too hardheaded to admit they are wrong again and fooled by a complient media

Now once again the country is stuck in a deadlock "hold the course" mindset as more die every day for the rabid right wing small dick complex.

Is it as stupid as occupying Germany? You realize we STILL have soldiers stationed there, right?

Most wars can be avoided by being smart and being ruthless. For instance, I would have capped 4 or 5 of the people from 500 yards away around Saddam while he was giving a speech, then given him a courtesy call to see how much he wanted to cooperate.

But, given our current limitations, we have to send the enemy our battle plan and constant updates on where we are and what our plans are (im kidding.. kind of).

You dont win wars and keep people from killing others by playing pattycake. "Hey.. if you kill someone we will take you from your dirt hole and stick you in your own room and give you food" doesnt cut it. We didnt even really use much offense in all of this (well... in my mind anyhow).

The BENEFIT from this war is:

Tons of terrorists in one place outside of the US
They are busy trying to kill troops instead of civilians (um.. what the military is SUPPOSED to do)
This sets a standard for Iraq and surrounding countries which more peaceful ideals can begin to start flowing into (this is very long term.. but it changes the direction they were going.. albeit slowly)
Pre-invasion : 13 year old girl is raped, murdered and mutilated. Man gets distainful look. Post invasion : Man gets put in prision.


There are tons of reasons why this CAN be good. But there are also tons of reasons why this CAN be bad. Its a matter of preference, really.

I would have prefered to use black ops or just let them kill themselves (give everyone a gun!), as our military shouldnt be used as a humanitarian army.

These soldiers are dying for a noble cause, however, it could have been avoided and could easily have been done with much less manpower and resources.

Regardless, they needed to change SOMETHING, as thier current system wasnt working (not our business, really).

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Kappo

You win a war by outsmarting an enemy and being prepared, not playing right into his hands.

This war is not a conventional war, nor was there any resistance to speak of in germany.

 

[Czar]

Kappo,
where do those terrorist come from? how and why do people become terrorists?

answer that pleeeeease

 

[Kappo]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
So, uhh, Kappo, you dispute the numbers from the Palast article? You dispute the fact that big oil has benefitted tremendously from the situation?

Keep pointing to your strawman, that those opposed to the War liked Hussein, and wanted to see him remain in power. Far from it. That's not an argument, it's a smear.

What's being ignored quite willfully is that the cure is worse than the disease, that the average Iraqi and the American public are both worse off today than before the invasion. Chaos isn't freedom, unless you're a terrorist, and for them, the Bush Admin has provided a golden opportunity in Iraq.

Sorry man, Im really not going to pollute my mind with some nitwit liberal's rantings. Hell, I can make it look like my small business made money last year if I tweak it right. I had 0 customers and no revenue 😉

I can make things up, I can post them in a blog, and it MUST be true. Oh, but he has sources to ... oh yeah.. nothing!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Kappo


Sorry man, Im really not going to pollute my mind with some nitwit liberal's rantings.

In other words, your arguement is nothing but faith based and you do not have room to listen to reason becasue your way is set in stone, ummm like...*ding ding ding* terrorists!

You have become nothing less then what you say you are against, seems to happen a lot like that though.

 

[Kappo]

Originally posted by: Czar
Kappo,
where do those terrorist come from? how and why do people become terrorists?

answer that pleeeeease

Oh.. yeah we must have made them :roll: Because there was never a terrorist before GWB!

Im not sure what the liberal "truth" on that matter is, so I cant tell you what you want to hear.

 

[Kappo]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Kappo


Sorry man, Im really not going to pollute my mind with some nitwit liberal's rantings.

IN other words, your arguement is nothing but faith based and you do not have room to listen to reason becasue your way is set in stone, ummm like...*ding ding ding* terrorists!

Um.. no.. he has zero evidence of anything he posted. Post a link to someone with a real reputation and Ill consider it. Until then, blame yourself for not listening to Ann Coltier because you are set in your ways!

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar
Kappo,
where do those terrorist come from? how and why do people become terrorists?

answer that pleeeeease

Oh.. yeah we must have made them :roll: Because there was never a terrorist before GWB!

Im not sure what the liberal "truth" on that matter is, so I cant tell you what you want to hear.

lol.. they wouldn't know the "truth" if it arrived wearing a backpack full of C4 on their front doorstep.

I'm serious! Some people, like Steeple, truly consider our side to be the evil ones in all of this. She honestly considers all of our troops to be sociopathic murderers, and Bush and Rumsfeld to be real life versions of Austin Powers!

coocoo coocoo!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar
Kappo,
where do those terrorist come from? how and why do people become terrorists?

answer that pleeeeease

Oh.. yeah we must have made them :roll: Because there was never a terrorist before GWB!

Im not sure what the literal "truth" on that matter is, so I cant tell you what you want to hear.

More like it.

 

[Kappo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar
Kappo,
where do those terrorist come from? how and why do people become terrorists?

answer that pleeeeease

Oh.. yeah we must have made them :roll: Because there was never a terrorist before GWB!

Im not sure what the literal "truth" on that matter is, so I cant tell you what you want to hear.

More like it.

The liberal truth is typically VERY VERY far from literal.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar
Kappo,
where do those terrorist come from? how and why do people become terrorists?

answer that pleeeeease

Oh.. yeah we must have made them :roll: Because there was never a terrorist before GWB!

Im not sure what the liberal "truth" on that matter is, so I cant tell you what you want to hear.

lol.. they wouldn't know the "truth" if it arrived wearing a backpack full of C4 on their front doorstep.

I'm serious! Some people, like Steeple, truly consider our side to be the evil ones in all of this. She honestly considers all of our troops to be sociopathic murderers, and Bush and Rumsfeld to be real life versions of Austin Powers!

coocoo coocoo!

You know it's not those like Steeple we should concern ourselves with, it's the average Iraqi and a large percentage do considerAmerica to be the evil ones.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar
Kappo,
where do those terrorist come from? how and why do people become terrorists?

answer that pleeeeease

Oh.. yeah we must have made them :roll: Because there was never a terrorist before GWB!

Im not sure what the literal "truth" on that matter is, so I cant tell you what you want to hear.

More like it.

The liberal truth is typically VERY VERY far from literal.

And it doesn't seem that you are aware of either.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar
Kappo,
where do those terrorist come from? how and why do people become terrorists?

answer that pleeeeease

Oh.. yeah we must have made them :roll: Because there was never a terrorist before GWB!

Im not sure what the liberal "truth" on that matter is, so I cant tell you what you want to hear.

you failed to answer the questions, this is about your perspective on the matter, since you seem to know so much about this they should be easy

where do those terrorist come from?
how and why do people become terrorists?

 

[Kappo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar
Kappo,
where do those terrorist come from? how and why do people become terrorists?

answer that pleeeeease

Oh.. yeah we must have made them :roll: Because there was never a terrorist before GWB!

Im not sure what the liberal "truth" on that matter is, so I cant tell you what you want to hear.

lol.. they wouldn't know the "truth" if it arrived wearing a backpack full of C4 on their front doorstep.

I'm serious! Some people, like Steeple, truly consider our side to be the evil ones in all of this. She honestly considers all of our troops to be sociopathic murderers, and Bush and Rumsfeld to be real life versions of Austin Powers!

coocoo coocoo!

You know it's not those like Steeple we should concern ourselves with, it's the average Iraqi and a large percentage do considerAmerica to be the evil ones.

This I agree with. Which is where our implementation of the war failed.

Keep in mind, these people are used to living day to day, and the majority of (any countries) citizens have zero insight into what can happen later on down the road. They need instant results, which we cannot offer.

 

[Kappo]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Kappo

Originally posted by: Czar
Kappo,
where do those terrorist come from? how and why do people become terrorists?

answer that pleeeeease

Oh.. yeah we must have made them :roll: Because there was never a terrorist before GWB!

Im not sure what the liberal "truth" on that matter is, so I cant tell you what you want to hear.

you failed to answer the questions, this is about your perspective on the matter, since you seem to know so much about this they should be easy

where do those terrorist come from?
how and why do people become terrorists?

It is still not my job to educate you. Regardless of the subject, I am not your teacher. I suggest google.com for your public school replacement. 😉