Sacrifice and T&L.. odd comments

[DaveB3D]

hrm.. I don't think I've ever said any of those things.. well Bubba is a nice guy, that is true. However, I've never claimed the others. Don't put words into my mouth.. I don't like it and generally won't react well.

And if you want to get down to it, I can be a hell of a lot more objective than you. that much is apparent. You are being completely un-objective and are providing yourself with no evidence. Then again, you aren't really making any legit claims. I don't say anything with providing myself with evidence and also I try and just tell it like it is.

 

[BoberFett]

Don't make me stop this car! :|

 

[Oreo]

Don´t take it personally, I´m getting really tired and bored and just wrote it down. I´m sure you´re a really nice guy in real life. Let´s stop this before BoberFett goes nuts !

 

[DaveB3D]

hehe.. ok.. I'm not up for a beating from him today.... err.. scratch that.. didn't sound right...

 

[NIUBurned]

Dave, buddy, like it or not you represent 3dfx. As much it sux, you WILL get flamed, alot. For the love of god get used to it. Your fighting only makes them WANT to fight back more. Roll with the punches and try not to fight. Its like you said, its your opinion. You hate getting flamed and youll keep getting flamed as long as you flame back. (Its like having a younger brother who knows how to push your buttons) Try to be the bigger man, or at least try not to let things get to you like they do. Good luck!!

 

[Oreo]

<< And if you want to get down to it, I can be a hell of a lot more objective than you. . You are being completely un-objective and are providing yourself with no evidence. Then again, you aren't really making any legit claims. I don't say anything with providing myself with evidence and also tell it like it is. >>

Heeeeere we go again!



<< I can be a hell of a lot more objective than you. that much is apparent >>

Nope, not true. Why would you even think so, being the 3dfx employee that you are?



<< You are being completely un-objective >>

Un-objective, nope I´m not. I´ve already said that I like both 3dfx and Nvidia, they both have their pros and cons. I´ve owned both brands and I´ve had no major complaints about neither of them.



<< I try and just tell it like it is >>

good for you, but if you wanna be objective you´ll have to try harder. But since you´re working for 3dfx it´s only natural that you´ll take their side. I would probably also do that if I worked there. But it´s your choice to do so, just be prepared to get flamed once and a while if you don´t have any valid arguments, or if it´s apperant that your posts are pure (or disguised) propaganda.

 

[HaVoC]

Everyday I read these boards, DaveB3D continues to post threads that cause him to lose credibility, IMHO. Everyone knows where your biases point to. Rather than generating meaningful discussion, your comments seem to ignite flame wars. NSF4 has shown great restraint in communicating with you.

 

[Hardware]

As I pointed out its critical for 3dfx now to execute not to flame nvida crisp
Nvidia is now strong enough they simply dont care any 3dfx flame
I am sure Nvida is taking a close look to the ATi Radeon

 

[NFS4]

<< NSF4 has shown great restraint in communicating with you. >>


I have NO problems communicating with Dave. In fact, we communicate quite well I just thought that there was another motive to this thread...

 

[DaveB3D]

Well NFS, a lot of people still haven't seem to of figured out what you have. Oh well.. they'll probably figure it out eventually. If not, I don't really care frankly. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.


btw, Oreo. the fact that you continued go with this thread after we both agreed to stop shows a total lack of maturity on your part. You really need to grow up.


and NFS and I know eachother outside of this message board, just for reference.

 

[Oreo]

That´s only cause you edited your message after you posted it


<< total lack of maturity on your part. You really need to grow up. >>

BTW you shouldn´t say things like this, you might hurt my feelings.

 

[MisterM]

Now back to the topic....did you try using an GeForce vs an V5 on an slower CPU?
Oh yeah, considering that sacrifice is still beeing developed (I think) it is possible that they do not have the most recent T&amp;L code in the Beta because it is not stable yet or causes some obscure issues that have yet to be fixed.

Honestly, who knows how much T&amp;L is going to affect the speed of the FINAL game except the guys at Shiny? If they say that T&amp;L will improve framerate, it probably will. Why should they lie (I don`t believe that Shiny is part of any T&amp;L conspiracy, they just know how to code for it properly...MDK2 is getting an nice performance increase with T&amp;L already, so Sacrifice will probably get an even greater boost?)

Why do you even bother to ask about an game that 99% of us cannot have yet AFAIK? And why do you tell us about how vid cards perform in an game that hasn`t been finished yet, and may still change a lot?
Not that it`s not interesting, and that I can`t understand that you wat to find out more, but you will have to admit that this does look mighty suspicious, although I don`t doubt that you had good intentions.

 

[Hardware]

Indeed its strange to use a eary beta to compare t&amp;l vs non t&amp;l
maybe all was valid some month ago but today it could be 100% different

 

[BenSkywalker]

I don't understand why Dave is getting so much sh!t for this thread, he said nothing bad about T&amp;L in any way in this thread, he mearly commented that someone made comments that didn't agree with what he has seen.

He posted back that he did a comparison and that T&amp;L was indeed pushing higher poly rates at roughly the same FPS, he just couldn't notice a difference.

So the game is running just as fast with more polys according to Dave, hardly sounds like he is bashing T&amp;L, just questioning the comments of a particular individual based on his observations.

From my perspective, an artist is more likely to notice the difference, he is the one who designed the models(or at least had some part in it more then likely), and if he couldn't tell the difference it would reflect poorly on him/her.

 

[DaveB3D]

Thank you Ben... maybe since it isn't coming from me they'll understand.

 

[Hardware]

Dave what is your job at 3dfx
its nontechnical right?

 

[DaveB3D]

no.. it is technical.. you don't work in engineering on a non-technical job... Well I suspect you could, but I don't.

 

[MisterM]

I repeat , did you try using an slower CPU with the V5 and the GeForce?

And did you try an faster CPU with the GeForce? It could be possible that the polygon count is maxing out at ~20000, with the P2 750 beeing able to get pretty close to it already...
I think that those 2 &quot;tests&quot; could explain why you see hardly a difference.
The P3 750 could be close to maxing the engine out, so the difference between an T&amp;L board and one without it wouldn`t be so noticeable on that setup, but would be more noticeable on something slower.

 

[DaveB3D]

Sorry, don't have a slower CPU at work.


And actually, IMO it was the perfect test platform because the dev. from Shiny told me that you wouldn't see a difference on a 700. That is what I was trying to test, to see what the case was.

 

[RagingGuardian]

Then maybe you should try a slower CPU and see if there is a difference before starting a flame war. I think it was aceshardware that did a comparison of different cpu and videocard combos of which the geforce won which the writers attributed to it's T&amp;L engine.

You have to admit that for the last couple of days you've been very pro-3DFX which is frankly pissing alot of people off. You'll more than likely say whatever to my post but at some point you'll realise that we are all consumers here looking for the best product on the market at a reasonable price. I for on am not a Nvidia zealot since I've owned a card from just about every manufacturer which includes a V3 3000 which i got rid of a month ago.

I personally think that there's more to your post than just polygon numbers with the two cards. Think about it this way. It's like a creative Zealot claiming that EAX gives better positional sound in Q3, in comparison to A3D, which the game officially supports.

Also note that all the Sacrifice print adds feature a Nvidia card (GTS Ultra) claiming that it's the ideal card for the game. Go figure.

 

[DaveB3D]

whatever...

Ben wrote:

I don't understand why Dave is getting so much sh!t for this thread, he said nothing bad about T&amp;L in any way in this thread, he mearly commented that someone made comments that didn't agree with what he has seen.

He posted back that he did a comparison and that T&amp;L was indeed pushing higher poly rates at roughly the same FPS, he just couldn't notice a difference.

So the game is running just as fast with more polys according to Dave, hardly sounds like he is bashing T&amp;L, just questioning the comments of a particular individual based on his observations.

From my perspective, an artist is more likely to notice the difference, he is the one who designed the models(or at least had some part in it more then likely), and if he couldn't tell the difference it would reflect poorly on him/her.



If anyone is pissed, it is their own fault, not mine.

 

[AdamK47]

Anyone willing to send me a copy (legal) of Sacrifice to try out since I now own a Voodoo 5, Radeon, and GeForce 2 (I even have a Savage 2K for $hitz n' Giggles). I tried looking for the game at Media Play and Best Buy, but couldn't find it. Is it even available for retail yet?

 

[Modeps]

adam, yeah its available, came out yesterday (16th) however everyone is pretty much sold out of it... i ordered mine from ebworld for 35 dollars when it told me &quot;ships Nov. 16th&quot; now today, it is going for 45 dollars and &quot;low supply/backorder&quot;. you know when eb has low supply, theres a huge demand.