S|A : "Microsoft XBox Next will use an x86 AMD APU instead of PowerPC"

[grimpr]

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/09/04/microsoft-xbox-next-delay-rumors-abound/

Well if this comes true its gonna be awesome for PC, far easier porting to Windows, more mature tools, faster time to market for games, its gonna ignite the whole PC desktop once again. :thumbsup:

 

[Red Hawk]

I predict Trinity. It's working now and could have been worked into the Next Xbox design during development. And technically the GPU part of Trinity is designated as a 7000 series part, even though it uses VLIW4 rather than GCN.

 

[Soccerman06]

Ive been saying this for atleast a year. I dont know why people dont believe me. IBM lossed the contract early 2011 because they couldnt meet the fab deadline.

And no it will not be trinity

 

[Arkadrel]

.....snip.....The dark horse was an x86 CPU, but it was a long shot. It looks like the long shot came through, moles are now openly talking about AMD x86 CPU cores and more surprisingly, a newer than expected GPU. How new? HD7000 series, or at least a variant of the GCN cores, heavily tweaked by Microsoft for their specific needs.

This means both the XBox Next and the PS4 are going to effectively be HSA/FSA devices. Stop and think about that for a minute, AMD has the GPUs for all three next generation consoles, the CPUs for both the XBox Next and the PS4, and is effectively controlling the middleware/interpreted language that is the plumbing for all of it. No matter what the future of video gaming is, PC, console, or mobile, it will almost assuredly have AMD at it’s center. Yes, even Apple.....snip....

x86 CPU
GCN cores
HSA/FSA

Looks good.

 

[Schmide]

OpenCL, Unified Memory Space, Hybrid Crossfire...

Could be.

 

[lamedude]

The more things change.
AMD copies 8080 in 70s. A second source for the CPU allows its use in new markets.
In 2009 AMD no longer had to fab their CPUs and now it looks like its getting x86 in the console market.

 

[NostaSeronx]

I predict Trinity. It's working now and could have been worked into the Next Xbox design during development. And technically the GPU part of Trinity is designated as a 7000 series part, even though it uses VLIW4 rather than GCN.

It's been speculated that it is actually either a modified Steamroller or a modified Jaguar.

Four mod-(SR/JR) cores to eight mod-(SR/JR) cores
1152 GCN 2.0 ALUs

^around that for both the Sony Playstation 4 and Microsoft Xbox 3

These are consoles that are planned to appear Q4 2013 to Q1 2014 timeframe.

 

[Arkadrel]

I could see it being a modified Jaguar...with some extra work thrown in around the GPU area.

 

[Ancalagon44]

The other very interesting thing is how are MS and Sony going to differentiate their consoles, if they are both using AMD technology?

I have a feeling that MS will go for a slightly cheaper option than Sony, who will bet the farm (again) on this one.

 

[Arkadrel]

Question is if you ship a x86 cpu core with a consol, why not give them the intire PC experiance?
A Xbox, that could "dual boot" into windows? Likely to happend?

 

[eternalone]

Can you say Xbox Next emulator on PC early on. Muahahaha

 

[inf64]

It's probably either modified Trinity or Kaveri with custom GPU (more SPs).

 

[BD231]

The other very interesting thing is how are MS and Sony going to differentiate their consoles, if they are both using AMD technology?

I have a feeling that MS will go for a slightly cheaper option than Sony, who will bet the farm (again) on this one.

Sony won't loose its exclusive title's, which these days is really the only reason to own a playstation anyway.

 

[ViRGE]

Once again Charlie is making stuff up to see what sticks, IMHO.

 

[MisterMac]

At first... this seems like fantastic idea for AMD, to invent a complete new market and get some revenue.


Then i started wondering if that was true.
It opens the door for chipzilla for the 5th generation - and it opens up emulation on PC(READ, Chipzilla). on a much better scale with less perf. hits than what's currently possible with generation 3.

That doesn't really seem like a smart future wise move.
That seems kind of like a short term fix, that will yield management results but screw whoever takes over next?


Am i wrong here?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Once again Charlie is making stuff up to see what sticks, IMHO.

This ^^

MS already burned their hands on a x86 design before. For those that dont understand the concept. Its all about controlling the manufactoring. You want to decide when you want shrinks, where you wanna produce and how much. And you want all the cost savings by yourself. That cant be done with x86.

With GPU designs nVidia/AMD sells a design for xxMio$ and then its over there. MS/Sony/Nintendo controls the rest.

Dont get why people read that BS site.

 

[NTMBK]

This ^^

MS already burned their hands on a x86 design before. For those that dont understand the concept. Its all about controlling the manufactoring. You want to decide when you want shrinks, where you wanna produce and how much. And you want all the cost savings by yourself. That cant be done with x86.

AMD has been banging the drum about how Jaguar has been optimised for porting across processes. (Even more so than Bobcat.) Low power draw, good performance, integrated GCN cores, portable across processes- sounds like a good candidate to me. (In a modified form.)

 

[ShintaiDK]

AMD has been banging the drum about how Jaguar has been optimised for porting across processes. (Even more so than Bobcat.) Low power draw, good performance, integrated GCN cores, portable across processes- sounds like a good candidate to me. (In a modified form.)

You could say the same about the original Xbox CPU.

How many K8s do AMD still produce today? Had the Xbox360 used it. And on 32nm for the cost reduction. Not to mention they would have to sell it for most likely 10-20$ a pcs.

Its amazing how fast people forget the issues and history learned. Just in the hope of some hype.

 

[Ancalagon44]

You could say the same about the original Xbox CPU.

Its all fun in the start. But imagine paying 300$ for an E6600 today.

How many K8s do AMD still produce today? Had the Xbox360 used it. And on 32nm?

True, but then none of us know what negotiations go on behind closed doors. I mean, if MS were going to pursue an AMD CPU, they would be upfront with AMD that any cost savings must be passed onto MS.

AMD knows that MS would be a major client to have, and right now, they need the money. They may be willing to give more lenient licensing terms just to fund the development of other architectures and stay in business.

 

[Olikan]

lol....last article about xbox

So, time for a little speculation. Oban is being made by IBM primarily, so that almost definitively puts to bed the idea of an x86 CPU that has been floating. We said we were 99+% sure that the XBox Next/720 is a Power PC CPU plus an ATI GCN/HD7000/Southern Islands GPU, and with this last data point, we are now confident that it is 99.9+%. Why? Several licensing agreements that cover what can be made where will enrich a fleet of lawyers if Oban is x86, but do not preclude the possibility entirely, hence the last .1%

dat 0.1% D:

 

[Gideon]

This ^^

MS already burned their hands on a x86 design before. For those that dont understand the concept. Its all about controlling the manufactoring. You want to decide when you want shrinks, where you wanna produce and how much. And you want all the cost savings by yourself. That cant be done with x86.

With GPU designs nVidia/AMD sells a design for xxMio$ and then its over there. MS/Sony/Nintendo controls the rest.

Dont get why people read that BS site.

I can't understand why do you think that this is a problem that is unnegotionable, provided how desperate AMD could be to get the contract. MS also had a problem with Nvidia but not AMD after all.

Besides AMD manufactured 286's that were put into Tomahawk missiles (some of which malfunctioned in 2003 Iraq invasion). Contracts that usually last a hell of a lot more time than consoles.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I can't understand why do you think that this is a problem that is unnegotionable, provided how desperate AMD could be to get the contract. MS also had a problem with Nvidia but not AMD after all.

MS had problems with nVidia? How so. The GPUs are fully controlled by console makers. Its a onetime design sell for AMD/nVidia. They get around 50mio$ and never see a penny again.

MS wants to control the manufactoring process. AMD doesnt make GPUs. MS does. AMD only sold them a design. Thats simply not possible for x86. And who can guarantee that AMD is alive in its current form in 5 years?

True, but then none of us know what negotiations go on behind closed doors. I mean, if MS were going to pursue an AMD CPU, they would be upfront with AMD that any cost savings must be passed onto MS.

AMD knows that MS would be a major client to have, and right now, they need the money. They may be willing to give more lenient licensing terms just to fund the development of other architectures and stay in business.

Look above. And why would they pick a company with capacity problems and a history filled with delivery issues. Same reason Apple dont and never will use AMD.

 

[ShintaiDK]

lol....last article about xbox



dat 0.1% D:

The classic is usually to put out articles about every possible scenario. And then if one of them hits. You claim "I told you so".

 

[nismotigerwvu]

MS had problems with nVidia? How so. *Snip*

"How quickly we forget" huh? They had MAJOR issues, culminating in a lawsuit (eventually settled in arbitration) based on the graphics core and mobo chipset from the original xbox. This was major news, so unless you're younger than you seem, it would have been hard to miss this. This isn't a great link and just so happened to be the first one google brought up, but yeah nvidia was the inflexible partner that generation and is why MS has turned to ATI/AMD and never looked back (http://news.cnet.com/2100-1006-983593.html).

 

[jones377]

MS had the same problem with Intel with the original Xbox. It was a Pentium 3/128KB L2 733MHz IIRC. Intel never released the design to Microsoft to be integrated with the GPU in later process generations (not like Nvidia agreed to that either as shown above).

If AMD is serious about getting the consoles this generation they will have to hand over both the CPU and GPU designs to Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo and then collect royalties. They've done it before with the GPUs and now that AMD no longer needs to manufacture the CPUs as per the old agreement with Intel, they are free to do so with the CPUs as well. IF they are willing.